Jack Z fired from the Mariners!

[Uncle Si]

They have replaced the GM more than once with the current higher up and the result is?

Continued sucking. It's time to clean the cupboard and NOT blame players/managers.

116 win season? 4 straight 90+ win seasons. From 96 to 2003 one could argue they were the most successful baseball franchise outside the Yankees. The franchise hasn't always been crap. And it managed to lose its core players in that era and replace them with a whole new line up and bounce to a record setting season. That's the GM and players.

GMs have a very big input on the direction of the team. Jack Z had a specific philosophy, based on some sort of combination of analytics and old school roster creation that altered the roster significantly over a 5 year period. He wanted young players to mix with a certain veteran presence. It didn't work. That's on him, and the players.

 

[dumbrabbit]

They have replaced the GM more than once with the current higher up and the result is?

Continued sucking. It's time to clean the cupboard and NOT blame players/managers.

116 win season? 4 straight 90+ win seasons. From 96 to 2003 one could argue they were the most successful baseball franchise outside the Yankees. The franchise hasn't always been crap. And it managed to lose its core players in that era and replace them with a whole new line up and bounce to a record setting season. That's the GM and players.

GMs have a very big input on the direction of the team. Jack Z had a specific philosophy, based on some sort of combination of analytics and old school roster creation that altered the roster significantly over a 5 year period. He wanted young players to mix with a certain veteran presence. It didn't work. That's on him, and the players.

Can't blame all of it on him, no matter how scandalous he became. He had an incredible amount of bad luck.

 

[Uncle Si]

They have replaced the GM more than once with the current higher up and the result is?

Continued sucking. It's time to clean the cupboard and NOT blame players/managers.

116 win season? 4 straight 90+ win seasons. From 96 to 2003 one could argue they were the most successful baseball franchise outside the Yankees. The franchise hasn't always been crap. And it managed to lose its core players in that era and replace them with a whole new line up and bounce to a record setting season. That's the GM and players.

GMs have a very big input on the direction of the team. Jack Z had a specific philosophy, based on some sort of combination of analytics and old school roster creation that altered the roster significantly over a 5 year period. He wanted young players to mix with a certain veteran presence. It didn't work. That's on him, and the players.

Can't blame all of it on him, no matter how scandalous he became. He had an incredible amount of bad luck.

Definitely wasn't. The players he picked played a massive part.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

It was both bad luck and poor construction of the team. Yes he had bad luck on guys like Ackley, Montero, Smoak, etc. but he also made some horrible decisions. For one, he rushed almost every high end prospect. Zunino got called up way too early, you can probably say the same about Ackley. It was just a case of Jack trying to save his ass rather than looking out for the player. He also had a bad habit of signing over the hill veterans: Fernando Rodney, Rickie Weeks, Corrie Hart, etc. He made moves that the Seahawks wouldn't make in a million years.

And he didn't build around the strength of the team: pitching and the ballpark. He signed slow guys who play poor in the field. The 2015 M's team was putrid on the base paths and not much better in the field. Go watch the KC Royals or Pirates and you'll see two great young teams built on speed and defense.

 

[chris98251]

It was both bad luck and poor construction of the team. Yes he had bad luck on guys like Ackley, Montero, Smoak, etc. but he also made some horrible decisions. For one, he rushed almost every high end prospect. Zunino got called up way too early, you can probably say the same about Ackley. It was just a case of Jack trying to save his ass rather than looking out for the player. He also had a bad habit of signing over the hill veterans: Fernando Rodney, Rickie Weeks, Corrie Hart, etc. He made moves that the Seahawks wouldn't make in a million years.

And he didn't build around the strength of the team: pitching and the ballpark. He signed slow guys who play poor in the field. The 2015 M's team was putrid on the base paths and not much better in the field. Go watch the KC Royals or Pirates and you'll see two great young teams built on speed and defense.

The thing is he came from KC, the fact he went to slow and non athletic players is baffling.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

It was both bad luck and poor construction of the team. Yes he had bad luck on guys like Ackley, Montero, Smoak, etc. but he also made some horrible decisions. For one, he rushed almost every high end prospect. Zunino got called up way too early, you can probably say the same about Ackley. It was just a case of Jack trying to save his ass rather than looking out for the player. He also had a bad habit of signing over the hill veterans: Fernando Rodney, Rickie Weeks, Corrie Hart, etc. He made moves that the Seahawks wouldn't make in a million years.

And he didn't build around the strength of the team: pitching and the ballpark. He signed slow guys who play poor in the field. The 2015 M's team was putrid on the base paths and not much better in the field. Go watch the KC Royals or Pirates and you'll see two great young teams built on speed and defense.

The thing is he came from KC, the fact he went to slow and non athletic players is baffling.

I don't think he's ever had ties to KC, he was with the Brewers before he came to Seattle.

 

[Hawkfan77]

It was both bad luck and poor construction of the team. Yes he had bad luck on guys like Ackley, Montero, Smoak, etc. but he also made some horrible decisions. For one, he rushed almost every high end prospect. Zunino got called up way too early, you can probably say the same about Ackley. It was just a case of Jack trying to save his ass rather than looking out for the player. He also had a bad habit of signing over the hill veterans: Fernando Rodney, Rickie Weeks, Corrie Hart, etc. He made moves that the Seahawks wouldn't make in a million years.

And he didn't build around the strength of the team: pitching and the ballpark. He signed slow guys who play poor in the field. The 2015 M's team was putrid on the base paths and not much better in the field. Go watch the KC Royals or Pirates and you'll see two great young teams built on speed and defense.

You're giving him way too much credit. He didn't have that much power and never had final say