Jimmy Graham catching passes

[Anonymous]

It's not landing on the knee that concerns me. It is getting whacked in the knee when in an awkward position.

You clearly do not understand patellar tendon tears or recovery from them

Tell us why then, doc.

Or, do we need to make an appointment? :mrgreen:

 

[BadgerVid]

It's not landing on the knee that concerns me. It is getting whacked in the knee when in an awkward position.

You clearly do not understand patellar tendon tears or recovery from them

OK, I admit to not being an expert on patellar tendons. What about quickly changing directions? I know that was a tough one when my ACL and MCL went...it took literally years to recover in that area.

 

[RobDaHawk]

Here's a good view of the knee anatomy if anyone is curious like me and doesn't have this stuff memorized. Or a doctor like Big Sky.

 

[RobDaHawk]

From the picture I'm guessing jumping and landing being more risqué because your worried about the straight up and down motion of the patella versus a side motion that affects ACL, MCL more.....? Even if your leg is hit from the side. Your knee cap shouldn't really be forced to move anywhere, it's more of the hinging of the knee, such as squatting down and jumping. Tell me how wrong I am Doc.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

His injury is something guys come back from, but the question is how diminished his skills will be.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Skills like catching a football at higher point than anyone else?

I think he'll be fine.

 

[KiwiHawk]

From the picture I'm guessing jumping and landing being more risqué because your worried about the straight up and down motion

I'm usually not a grammar nazi, but I found this one really funny on several levels, from girls-on-tampolines to the "accidental pregnancy" cartoons.

 

[RobDaHawk]

From the picture I'm guessing jumping and landing being more risqué because your worried about the straight up and down motion

I'm usually not a grammar nazi, but I found this one really funny on several levels, from girls-on-tampolines to the "accidental pregnancy" cartoons.

Well played kiwi.....well played

 

[massari]

Even if he's ready to play the first game of the season, hopefully they just play it safe and keep him out of game action until early December.

Don't need him until the playoffs and those few games can be used to get him into mid season form.

 

[BadgerVid]

Here's a good view of the knee anatomy if anyone is curious like me and doesn't have this stuff memorized. Or a doctor like Big Sky.

Looking at the photo, knowing the difference between a tendon and a ligament, and with the expectation of being informed I am mistaken, I make an assumption. Since the injury has been referred to as a tendon tear, we are apparently talking about where what is called on the pic the quadriceps tendon meets the patella. That would seem to weaken the entire flexing ability and the lower leg?

 

[RobDaHawk]

Here's a good view of the knee anatomy if anyone is curious like me and doesn't have this stuff memorized. Or a doctor like Big Sky.

Looking at the photo, knowing the difference between a tendon and a ligament, and with the expectation of being informed I am mistaken, I make an assumption. Since the injury has been referred to as a tendon tear, we are apparently talking about where what is called on the pic the quadriceps tendon meets the patella. That would seem to weaken the entire flexing ability and the lower leg?

I was under the impression it's the patellar tendon, (the one below the knee cap) but that picture has it listed as a ligament.......so now I'm just confused still. Lol maybe the picture is wrong with its labeling?

 

[Megatron]

Here's a good view of the knee anatomy if anyone is curious like me and doesn't have this stuff memorized. Or a doctor like Big Sky.

Looking at the photo, knowing the difference between a tendon and a ligament, and with the expectation of being informed I am mistaken, I make an assumption. Since the injury has been referred to as a tendon tear, we are apparently talking about where what is called on the pic the quadriceps tendon meets the patella. That would seem to weaken the entire flexing ability and the lower leg?

I was under the impression it's the patellar tendon, (the one below the knee cap) but that picture has it listed as a ligament.......so now I'm just confused still. Lol maybe the picture is wrong with its labeling?

What that picture is calling the pattelar ligament is commonly known as the patellar tendon. That is because it is a continuation of quadriceps tendon, which actually passes over parts of the patella.

 

[BlueTalon]

Accept your glass half empty view is wrong and move on.

I hereby declare shenanigans on the requirement that the glass be half-full or half-empty and request that we all accept the truth: the glass is at 50% capacity.

Unbiased facts > opinions.

I refuse to accept this. Without a doubt the glass is entirely filled.

50% with liquid, 50% with gas.

Where's the "Like" button?

 

[Bigpumpkin]

In spite of what BSD says, if he gets his foot caught or pinned down and then gets bent over with someone underneath him ..... he is going to be in "a world of hurt"! I'm not sure if his knee ever feels the same.
Then again....I've never had knee surgery. However, I can tell you about rotator cuffs!!!

 

[Anonymous]

Accept your glass half empty view is wrong and move on.

I hereby declare shenanigans on the requirement that the glass be half-full or half-empty and request that we all accept the truth: the glass is at 50% capacity.

Unbiased facts > opinions.

I refuse to accept this. Without a doubt the glass is entirely filled.

50% with liquid, 50% with gas.

Where's the "Like" button?

I do not concur.

The glass is observed as being at 50% capacity, yes; this much cannot be disputed. However, it's not about glass or the amount of liquid it contains, it is about the confidence level displayed by the possessor of the glass and it's contents and the position held by the liquid-consumer at the halfway point.

A delineation between optimism and pessimism. Often confused with homer vs realist.

:thcoffee:

 

[bigskydoc]

Ok, just a little bit about the patellar ligament/ tendon and how it gets damaged.

Although attaching two bones (the patella and the tibia), therefore being correctly considered a ligament, the patellar ligament acts as a tendon, transferring the force generated by the quadriceps to the lower leg. While it is theoretically possible for it to be injured by contact, this is remarkably rare. The aforementioned foot pinned, knee bent mechanism also is almost unheard of in real life. These mechanisms mostly affect the true ligaments. (ACL/MCL/PCL etc), not the patellar or quadriceps tendons.

The patellar tendon is injured when the force applied by the quad exceeds the strength of the tendon or one of its attachment points. Peak force is applied during a jump and when landing from a jump. During a big jump or when landing it, a force 10 times the body weight is experienced by the tendon. The load is very technique dependent, and it is typically a awkward jump or landing that does the damage.

Imagine a rope tying the bumper of two trucks together. The trucks pull apart until tension is just applied to the rope then gently try to pull apart. That is static load. Now imagine the trucks leave 6 inches of slack in the line then both of them punch it. That is dynamic load. I think you can see why the dynamic load is more likely to break something. Perhaps the rope, perhaps a bumper. The dynamic load is likely to exceed the strength of either the rope or one of its attachments.

This is the same as the load experienced by the patellar tendon when landing a jump. This is why I was so excited to hear that Graham is landing small, gentle jumps. I would expect him to be applying gentle, static loads to the tendon at this point. To hear that he can tolerate a small dynamic load without too much pain is awesome and very optimistic news.

Don't get me wrong, there is still a long road ahead, but I would say he is ahead of schedule.

Traveling and typing on my phone, so don't expect too much from me.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Doc!

Excellent post.

 

[RobDaHawk]

Awesome news, thanks for the clarification doc. Now the picture makes sense again.

 

[BadgerVid]

Here's a good view of the knee anatomy if anyone is curious like me and doesn't have this stuff memorized. Or a doctor like Big Sky.

Looking at the photo, knowing the difference between a tendon and a ligament, and with the expectation of being informed I am mistaken, I make an assumption. Since the injury has been referred to as a tendon tear, we are apparently talking about where what is called on the pic the quadriceps tendon meets the patella. That would seem to weaken the entire flexing ability and the lower leg?

I was under the impression it's the patellar tendon, (the one below the knee cap) but that picture has it listed as a ligament.......so now I'm just confused still. Lol maybe the picture is wrong with its labeling?

What that picture is calling the pattelar ligament is commonly known as the patellar tendon. That is because it is a continuation of quadriceps tendon, which actually passes over parts of the patella.

OK, I stand corrected then. I eliminated that because, while a tendon connects muscle to bone, that appeared to me to really be a ligament (which connects bone to bone).

 

[BadgerVid]

Ok, just a little bit about the patellar ligament/ tendon and how it gets damaged.

Although attaching two bones (the patella and the tibia), therefore being correctly considered a ligament, the patellar ligament acts as a tendon, transferring the force generated by the quadriceps to the lower leg. While it is theoretically possible for it to be injured by contact, this is remarkably rare. The aforementioned foot pinned, knee bent mechanism also is almost unheard of in real life. These mechanisms mostly affect the true ligaments. (ACL/MCL/PCL etc), not the patellar or quadriceps tendons.

The patellar tendon is injured when the force applied by the quad exceeds the strength of the tendon or one of its attachment points. Peak force is applied during a jump and when landing from a jump. During a big jump or when landing it, a force 10 times the body weight is experienced by the tendon. The load is very technique dependent, and it is typically a awkward jump or landing that does the damage.

Imagine a rope tying the bumper of two trucks together. The trucks pull apart until tension is just applied to the rope then gently try to pull apart. That is static load. Now imagine the trucks leave 6 inches of slack in the line then both of them punch it. That is dynamic load. I think you can see why the dynamic load is more likely to break something. Perhaps the rope, perhaps a bumper. The dynamic load is likely to exceed the strength of either the rope or one of its attachments.

This is the same as the load experienced by the patellar tendon when landing a jump. This is why I was so excited to hear that Graham is landing small, gentle jumps. I would expect him to be applying gentle, static loads to the tendon at this point. To hear that he can tolerate a small dynamic load without too much pain is awesome and very optimistic news.

Don't get me wrong, there is still a long road ahead, but I would say he is ahead of schedule.

Traveling and typing on my phone, so don't expect too much from me.

Now it makes sense...Thanks.