John and Pete are losing me

[poly1274]

When it comes to cap issues, assuming if they do give Adams a big deal it's 2021 and beyond that the cap number is high, I am thinking this is definitely KJ Wright's last year. I hate to say it but is Bobby looking at only 1 or 2 more years?

Ok, but JA is gonna want at least 18mill per season.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Let's see if you are still crying few games into the season. Calm your ass down. We will be ok.

really who is rushing the passer?

who is keeping Wilson on his feet?

sorry we have 2 HUGE wholes that remain and o sign of them getting filled.

Um...the guys we have! I absolutely hate when people just assume a team has no talent because they haven't heard of these people before or think they just suck. Let's see if Taylor, Robinson, Green and Collier can get it done. As far as our line...who cares. Russ has been running his hole career. Literally has made a living of it and is the best at not getting hit or sliding. What are you crying about?

We just landed a guy who puts our defense back in the top ten. Now just let russ go to work.

You're putting a lot of faith in players that haven't proven a single thing in the NFL at a position that Carroll has been trying to fill for years at no avail. Seattle under Carroll has a very poor record of developing their own pass rushers and D-Lineman. Frank Clark and Bruce Irvin are the only notable examples. Clark is a good pass rusher and Irvin is serviceable but nothing great. Irvin's main party trick is the fact he can flex to many positions and is a solid tackler. Very versatile player that can do a little of everything but isn't great at anything. He's never been a top end pass rusher, just an alright pass rusher. He's done most of his work in the NFL as OLB as well.

Most of our pass notable pass rushers have come from the free agency or trades. Avril, Bennett, Clemons, Brock, and Clowney. At this point I have zero faith in the Seahawks FO when it comes to developing pass rushers and D-Lineman. We've allocated a lot of resources there to no avail. I really wish we would have spent that draft capital on a blue chip pass rusher or disruptive DT.

 

[TwistedHusky]

John,

You are correct.

We COULD be running an amazing offense. And not doing it has held us back.

But,

Expecting Pete to change this long into it? Just because we had to? That was a set up for disappointment. While people can change - they generally don't. Expecting an over 70 year old coach to change? Folly.

That is why I don't see how you cannot see how important this move was?

It literally turned our greatest weakness into one of our strengths.

Pete coaches as if he has great players at certain positions. Whether he has those players or not. Well now he has those players.

Our weakness was that he was going to lean on our defense and specifically the secondary, whether we were #5th ranked or 25th ranked. He was going to win with that strategy and we did not have the horses for it until now.

Pete can coach the way he wants and it is no longer going to be the thing that holds us back. This is huge.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

Some people are just fans of players more then the team. They want their player to be the reason the team won. I just want the team to win. This cornerback crew and safety crew is going to be top notch.

 

[Chawker]

The smart play would be trading Bobby Wagner while he still holds some value. BBK is much faster and can handle the situation at MLBer. Wags is on the back side of a great career and will only deteriorate from here on. Its a tough call to put a great ol war horse down, but now is the time to let wags go, maybe a third round pick. Its a sad thought but its time before the career ending injury hits us. Thank you Bobby for all the great memorys.

Cheers

 

[Bobblehead]

Question after 2 years passes, how much are we paying Adams? Because they could had re-signed Earl. And what if Adams demands for a new contract next season and decides to sit out, and did what Earl did.

The difference is, First we knew Earl to be a mal content and had made his views pretty obvious. 2nd, Adams is a lot younger and worth the future investment, where as Earl. who relying on twilight speed was not.

 

[John63]

Let's see if you are still crying few games into the season. Calm your ass down. We will be ok.

really who is rushing the passer?

who is keeping Wilson on his feet?

sorry we have 2 HUGE wholes that remain and o sign of them getting filled.

Um...the guys we have! I absolutely hate when people just assume a team has no talent because they haven't heard of these people before or think they just suck. Let's see if Taylor, Robinson, Green and Collier can get it done. As far as our line...who cares. Russ has been running his hole career. Literally has made a living of it and is the best at not getting hit or sliding. What are you crying about?

We just landed a guy who puts our defense back in the top ten. . As far as our line...who cares

". As far as our line...who cares" and there is the problem, you like PC will wait till the gets hurt before you say maybe we should fix it. FYI there is nothing any of those people have done that proves they can get anything done,

Then this ". As far as our line...who cares" problem is we don't do that till we have no choice. So again sorry great guy, great player, we paid to much and still have huge holes. This move will make PC feel like he can go even more conservative, which means take the ball out of Wilson's hands even more.

 

[John63]

Let's see if you are still crying few games into the season. Calm your ass down. We will be ok.

really who is rushing the passer?

who is keeping Wilson on his feet?

sorry we have 2 HUGE wholes that remain and o sign of them getting filled.

Um...the guys we have! I absolutely hate when people just assume a team has no talent because they haven't heard of these people before or think they just suck. Let's see if Taylor, Robinson, Green and Collier can get it done. As far as our line...who cares. Russ has been running his hole career. Literally has made a living of it and is the best at not getting hit or sliding. What are you crying about?

We just landed a guy who puts our defense back in the top ten. Now just let russ go to work.

You're putting a lot of faith in players that haven't proven a single thing in the NFL at a position that Carroll has been trying to fill for years at no avail. Seattle under Carroll has a very poor record of developing their own pass rushers and D-Lineman. Frank Clark and Bruce Irvin are the only notable examples. Clark is a good pass rusher and Irvin is serviceable but nothing great. Irvin's main party trick is the fact he can flex to many positions and is a solid tackler. Very versatile player that can do a little of everything but isn't great at anything. He's never been a top end pass rusher, just an alright pass rusher. He's done most of his work in the NFL as OLB as well.

Most of our pass notable pass rushers have come from the free agency or trades. Avril, Bennett, Clemons, Brock, and Clowney. At this point I have zero faith in the Seahawks FO when it comes to developing pass rushers and D-Lineman. We've allocated a lot of resources there to no avail. I really wish we would have spent that draft capital on a blue chip pass rusher or disruptive DT.

or pass blockers avg pass blocking rank since 2012 28th

 

[John63]

John,

You are correct.

We COULD be running an amazing offense. And not doing it has held us back.

But,

Expecting Pete to change this long into it? Just because we had to? That was a set up for disappointment. While people can change - they generally don't. Expecting an over 70 year old coach to change? Folly.

That is why I don't see how you cannot see how important this move was?

It literally turned our greatest weakness into one of our strengths.

Pete coaches as if he has great players at certain positions. Whether he has those players or not. Well now he has those players.

Our weakness was that he was going to lean on our defense and specifically the secondary, whether we were #5th ranked or 25th ranked. He was going to win with that strategy and we did not have the horses for it until now.

Pete can coach the way he wants and it is no longer going to be the thing that holds us back. This is huge.

I agree with most of what you say this is a fail on PC. Good coaches play a system for what he has. That said he does not have the people he wants as his dline is still bad, as is his oline.

The question is just because we know he will not change and as a result we will never get back to the SB do we just stay silent or continue to voice our stance. I will voice.

 

[John63]

Some people are just fans of players more then the team. They want their player to be the reason the team won. I just want the team to win. This cornerback crew and safety crew is going to be top notch.

and some of us see the players as a means to winning. Yes the LB and DB will be great but the dline will be awful, as is the oline and the system being run.


The relaity is our best chance ot win is to protect Wilson and let him do what he does. this puts pressure on their offense making them take chances with what should be a really good LB and DB crew that goes to our advantage, Playing a slow run at all cost take the clock down on every play helps the other team. They know when we will snap it, and they dont have to take chances while our defense cannot afford any mistakes.


While our DB and LB might be LOD level our dline is not even close.

 

[jamescasey1124]

Let's see if you are still crying few games into the season. Calm your ass down. We will be ok.

really who is rushing the passer?

who is keeping Wilson on his feet?

sorry we have 2 HUGE wholes that remain and o sign of them getting filled.

Um...the guys we have! I absolutely hate when people just assume a team has no talent because they haven't heard of these people before or think they just suck. Let's see if Taylor, Robinson, Green and Collier can get it done. As far as our line...who cares. Russ has been running his hole career. Literally has made a living of it and is the best at not getting hit or sliding. What are you crying about?

We just landed a guy who puts our defense back in the top ten. Now just let russ go to work.

You're putting a lot of faith in players that haven't proven a single thing in the NFL at a position that Carroll has been trying to fill for years at no avail. Seattle under Carroll has a very poor record of developing their own pass rushers and D-Lineman. Frank Clark and Bruce Irvin are the only notable examples. Clark is a good pass rusher and Irvin is serviceable but nothing great. Irvin's main party trick is the fact he can flex to many positions and is a solid tackler. Very versatile player that can do a little of everything but isn't great at anything. He's never been a top end pass rusher, just an alright pass rusher. He's done most of his work in the NFL as OLB as well.

Most of our pass notable pass rushers have come from the free agency or trades. Avril, Bennett, Clemons, Brock, and Clowney. At this point I have zero faith in the Seahawks FO when it comes to developing pass rushers and D-Lineman. We've allocated a lot of resources there to no avail. I really wish we would have spent that draft capital on a blue chip pass rusher or disruptive DT.

I'm putting faith in them because I look at the team as a whole. Not just individual positions all the time. We are very close to being a superbowl team again if not this year anyway. You have no idea what the oline or dline will do. Your just assuming they wont be good. Dont forget half of the oline a dline are new players. They made changes. Plus, all those players you named werent good until they got here. Aside maybe Clowney who hasnt lived up to be a 1 overall. Avril was ok with the lions. Bennett no one even heard of until he got here. Clemons didnt do crap on the jags and brock was just freenys running mate. You will see. Relax.

 

[Ad Hawk]

Imagine the speed of both Brooks and Adams rushing the passer this season.

Pete and John are once again creating a faster, stronger team.

I'm in.

 

[John63]

really who is rushing the passer?

who is keeping Wilson on his feet?

sorry we have 2 HUGE wholes that remain and o sign of them getting filled.

Um...the guys we have! I absolutely hate when people just assume a team has no talent because they haven't heard of these people before or think they just suck. Let's see if Taylor, Robinson, Green and Collier can get it done. As far as our line...who cares. Russ has been running his hole career. Literally has made a living of it and is the best at not getting hit or sliding. What are you crying about?

We just landed a guy who puts our defense back in the top ten. Now just let russ go to work.

You're putting a lot of faith in players that haven't proven a single thing in the NFL at a position that Carroll has been trying to fill for years at no avail. Seattle under Carroll has a very poor record of developing their own pass rushers and D-Lineman. Frank Clark and Bruce Irvin are the only notable examples. Clark is a good pass rusher and Irvin is serviceable but nothing great. Irvin's main party trick is the fact he can flex to many positions and is a solid tackler. Very versatile player that can do a little of everything but isn't great at anything. He's never been a top end pass rusher, just an alright pass rusher. He's done most of his work in the NFL as OLB as well.

Most of our pass notable pass rushers have come from the free agency or trades. Avril, Bennett, Clemons, Brock, and Clowney. At this point I have zero faith in the Seahawks FO when it comes to developing pass rushers and D-Lineman. We've allocated a lot of resources there to no avail. I really wish we would have spent that draft capital on a blue chip pass rusher or disruptive DT.

I'm putting faith in them because I look at the team as a whole. Not just individual positions all the time. We are very close to being a superbowl team again if not this year anyway. You have no idea what the oline or dline will do. Your just assuming they wont be good. Dont forget half of the oline a dline are new players. They made changes. Plus, all those players you named werent good until they got here. Aside maybe Clowney who hasnt lived up to be a 1 overall. Avril was ok with the lions. Bennett no one even heard of until he got here. Clemons didnt do crap on the jags and brock was just freenys running mate. You will see. Relax.

Not assuming at all. Looking at what we added and what they did last year we are a bottom qt defense. Looking at what the new lineman have done we are still a bottom 5 pass blocking team. I mean i am glad you have hope. But think the fact you have to go back to avril for your example should tell you something

 

[John63]

Imagine the speed of both Brooks and Adams rushing the passer this season.

Pete and John are once again creating a faster, stronger team.

I'm in.

Lol thanks for the laugh.

 

[chris98251]

If we are sending Safeties and LB's routinely on blitz packages then we are changing the defense up. I still feel they have one or two moves they want to pull off yet.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

They have put a TON of resources into rebuilding the safety positions. A ton. From drafting a*hole like Tedric Thompson and DeLano Hill, to now what seems like wasting a valuable 2nd round pick a year ago on Marquise Blair. They signed McDougald. They traded for Diggs the same year they drafted Blair. Now giving up way too much for a malcontent in Jamal Adams.

They make ridiculous trades seemingly every year, attempting to land a star and giving up hot draft capital in the process. They often times fail to give said player a long term deal, and end up losing them in free agency, leaving them empty handed after a one year rental. When they have extended said player, their tenure only lasts no more than two seasons.

Cowherd was right. This FO terrible. They can't draft. They can't trade. They can't develop. They are just riding their own coattails on their 3 amazing drafts from forever ago. This organization needs a reboot, starting at the top.

I know I have been on a tear lately. Pissing and moaning about The hockey team, and about the Mariners, and now about the Seahawks. But dammit, we deserve better from all parties.

Obviously, what else can they do?

You’re right!

They can’t draft anymore.

So they might as well go all in for an All-Pro player twice in the three years he has played in this league.

Yes, they gave up a lot of capital but it’s like you said, who cares when Seattle can’t draft at all!

Carroll is old. Real old. I don’t think he cares what Seattle gave up. Carroll is most likely going to retire soon.

Might as well go out guns blazing!!!

Adams is a top 5 defensive player in this league.

Players of that caliber do not grow on trees and aren’t available to every team during a draft.

Carroll thought he can help this defense and yes Adams does.

Adams will play closer to the second level as Kam Chancellor did and he will have the assignment of defending George Kittle.

No one else on Seattle’s defense is of the caliber to stop Kittle.

You give up a lot but Seattle’s secondary is A LOT BETTER!

I am excited! Real excited!

Our draft picks in the first round are terrible anyways and have not paid dividends at all!

 

[Geologic]

They gave up to much for a strong safety; no matter how good.

 

[olyfan63]

really who is rushing the passer?

At this point it seems safe to say that they diagnosed our sack problem as being heavily coverage related. Adding Diggs mid-season, and now Dunbar (which may not work) and then a mega deal for Jamal Adams. That approach fits the GB film where Rodgers was getting the ball out almost immediately. It also fits some of the quant thinking on value - burke had a good writeup last month and even PFF is starting to look at coverage as a defining factor.

They have put a TON of resources into rebuilding the safety positions.... Now giving up way too much for a malcontent in Jamal Adams.

Our previous moves at safety are a sunk cost. Whether this particular trade works out or not, it is a good thing when a front office avoids the sunk cost fallacy and makes the best moves they can going forwards without worrying about how it will make them look. It's also a sign of good ownership to let the front office have the freedom not to be constantly looking over their shoulders.

Brilliant stuff. Thanks for sharing! I'm sure you're right that Pete, John, & co. did the film study and reached precisely that conclusion. I hadn't thought of it that way, but it's one of those things that almost seems obvious, after being pointed out. It certainly explains their behavior. This was a much better way to use team draft capital than Yannick Ngohyeahwhateverhisnameis. Plus we still have a shot at getting Clowney back; this move might actually improve that chance.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Oh look, another Niners fan posing as a Hawks fan......

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Also, didn't Adams have more sacks last year than any of our players?

Because our DL was league-worst. If it stays that way, Adams isn't going to help it. We need something on the order of 20 additional sacks, not 6.