Mike Sando says Russell Wilson still might not be a tier1QB

MizzouHawkGal

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HansGruber":13nrn1wr said:
This reminds me of the episode of South Park where the main kid wakes up and all he hears on the radio is sound of people crapping, because it's all ****.

When these people open their mouths and start talking, all I hear are obscene sounds like people crapping and the odor of bullcrap is too much to bear. I have to open a window and let it out.

The flatulence is overwhelming. The odor rancorous. So much methane and so little time.
How many days at until the preseason and sanity returning? It might possible people shut about the OL for an hour if we actually see them play. I know what I'm asking is ridiculous but a girl has to hope.
 

HansGruber

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MizzouHawkGal":331ur49c said:
HansGruber":331ur49c said:
This reminds me of the episode of South Park where the main kid wakes up and all he hears on the radio is sound of people crapping, because it's all ****.

When these people open their mouths and start talking, all I hear are obscene sounds like people crapping and the odor of bullcrap is too much to bear. I have to open a window and let it out.

The flatulence is overwhelming. The odor rancorous. So much methane and so little time.
How many days at until the preseason and sanity returning? It might possible people shut about the OL for an hour if we actually see them play. I know what I'm asking is ridiculous but a girl has to hope.

I'm right there with you, girl.

I've heard this bullcrap about Wilson all off-season and I just don't get it. The kid has played in 2 Superbowls in his first 4 seasons. Nuff said. Last half of last season, without Lynch and about half of his starting offense, Wilson just took it to another level. I haven't seen play like that since.... I dunno... maybe Joe Montana in his prime? It's hard to think of a good analogy, because honestly, Wilson is just so unique.

Then all this stuff. Yakkety yakk yakk... Wilson isn't elite... fart fart fart. I need a shovel to get through all the bullcrap.

Oh and Aaron Rodgers? LOL. I don't even get that. How does anyone seriously make that argument? I get it, he's a good quarterback sometimes. But the dude has consistently choked in the postseason. Rodgers has been hot garbage against the NFCW for what, like 4 straight years? It's just too much to listen to sometimes. Pure nonsense.
 

MizzouHawkGal

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HansGruber":2myfnrqy said:
MizzouHawkGal":2myfnrqy said:
HansGruber":2myfnrqy said:
This reminds me of the episode of South Park where the main kid wakes up and all he hears on the radio is sound of people crapping, because it's all ****.

When these people open their mouths and start talking, all I hear are obscene sounds like people crapping and the odor of bullcrap is too much to bear. I have to open a window and let it out.

The flatulence is overwhelming. The odor rancorous. So much methane and so little time.
How many days at until the preseason and sanity returning? It might possible people shut about the OL for an hour if we actually see them play. I know what I'm asking is ridiculous but a girl has to hope.

I'm right there with you, girl.

I've heard this bullcrap about Wilson all off-season and I just don't get it. The kid has played in 2 Superbowls in his first 4 seasons. Nuff said. Last half of last season, without Lynch and about half of his starting offense, Wilson just took it to another level. I haven't seen play like that since.... I dunno... maybe Joe Montana in his prime? It's hard to think of a good analogy, because honestly, Wilson is just so unique.

Then all this stuff. Yakkety yakk yakk... Wilson isn't elite... fart fart fart. I need a shovel to get through all the bullcrap.

Oh and Aaron Rodgers? LOL. I don't even get that. How does anyone seriously make that argument? I get it, he's a good quarterback sometimes. But the dude has consistently choked in the postseason. Rodgers has been hot garbage against the NFCW for what, like 4 straight years? It's just too much to listen to sometimes. Pure nonsense.
I'm not mad about Rodgers he's elite but having to listen to Popeye ramble on about pocket manipulation is just beyond my the pale.
 

Popeyejones

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Sando's a Hawks fan who started his career in Seattle, right?

Who belongs in Tier 1 really depends on how big you allow Tier 1 to be.

I think everyone basically agrees the top six guys or so (not in order) are Brady, Rodgers, Rapes, Brees, Cam, and Wilson.

Maybe that's your Tier 1, or maybe your Tier 1 is Brady, Rodgers and Rapes or Brees, with the other guys in Tier 1A.

It seems pretty commonsensical and not a thing to get annoyed about, IMO.
 

WilsonMVP

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HansGruber":34dqe2zq said:
MizzouHawkGal":34dqe2zq said:
HansGruber":34dqe2zq said:
This reminds me of the episode of South Park where the main kid wakes up and all he hears on the radio is sound of people crapping, because it's all ****.

When these people open their mouths and start talking, all I hear are obscene sounds like people crapping and the odor of bullcrap is too much to bear. I have to open a window and let it out.

The flatulence is overwhelming. The odor rancorous. So much methane and so little time.
How many days at until the preseason and sanity returning? It might possible people shut about the OL for an hour if we actually see them play. I know what I'm asking is ridiculous but a girl has to hope.

I'm right there with you, girl.

I've heard this bullcrap about Wilson all off-season and I just don't get it. The kid has played in 2 Superbowls in his first 4 seasons. Nuff said. Last half of last season, without Lynch and about half of his starting offense, Wilson just took it to another level. I haven't seen play like that since.... I dunno... maybe Joe Montana in his prime? It's hard to think of a good analogy, because honestly, Wilson is just so unique.

Then all this stuff. Yakkety yakk yakk... Wilson isn't elite... fart fart fart. I need a shovel to get through all the bullcrap.

Oh and Aaron Rodgers? LOL. I don't even get that. How does anyone seriously make that argument? I get it, he's a good quarterback sometimes. But the dude has consistently choked in the postseason. Rodgers has been hot garbage against the NFCW for what, like 4 straight years? It's just too much to listen to sometimes. Pure nonsense.


What are you going on about Rodgers in the playoffs for? Dude has almost a 100 QB rating with 27TD and only 8INT in 13 games.
 

Sterling Archer

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HansGruber":2ccv75g3 said:
Oh and Aaron Rodgers? LOL. I don't even get that. How does anyone seriously make that argument? I get it, he's a good quarterback sometimes. But the dude has consistently choked in the postseason. Rodgers has been hot garbage against the NFCW for what, like 4 straight years? It's just too much to listen to sometimes. Pure nonsense.

What are you talking about? Rodgers is just fine in the playoffs, it's his team that has lost GB those games, not him.

Rodgers is the best QB in the league in my opinion. The fact that Wilson may actually pass him this year is somewhat mind-blowing to me as I hold Aaron in such high esteem. You can't use last year as a barometer for Rodgers. You're also really missing out enjoying a QB of his caliber if you just put him down because we also have a good QB.

I still remember the throw that made my jaw drop in I believe his 2nd year starting. A needle absolutely threaded into a diving packer for a TD (can't remember who it was to). One of the best throws I've ever seen. It was then I knew he was legit.

Acting like Wilson is a lot better than the elite QBs in our league just makes us look biased. Appreciate the fact that going into year 5 Russ is in the conversation because prior to last year I wasn't sure he could actually make that next leap in his development. Seeing that he did is extremely exciting.
 

Mtjhoyas

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Objectively, the Luck-RW debate *should* be non-existent, at this point.

RW is results.
Luck is promise.

Weirdly enough, the analogy I see is very similar to Major League Baseball and it's "prospect rating" system. There is always a yearning to discredit a higher performing person who wasn't initially projected to be this good. Conversely, there's always an excuse for the high end guy not living up to expectations.

For example, let's look at Byron Buxton (Luck) and Stephen Piscotty (RW).

Buxton is the paper tiger. "When he learns to hit, he will be like Willie Mays."
Luck - "When he cuts down on interceptions and makes better decisions, he will be the best ever."
Summary: Those are pretty big "ifs" to just assume they will learn and apply on the field.

Piscotty is the on field tiger. "Sure he has performed very well, but he doesn't have the same upside as Buxton."
RW - "Sure he has been a huge success, but look how many external factors help him."
Summary: The results are good but he wasn't supposed to be this good. Also, just look at him!...he shouldn't be performing this well. I know all the supporting metrics say this isn't a fluke, but still!

At some point, results matter. Justin Smoak had one of the prettiest swings in baseball. Hunter Pence makes me want to puke watching him play. Doesn't matter. Who had the results? Logically, it's the only thing that matters in sports.
 

Hawks46

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Right now, I wouldn't put Wilson in the top 3. The only reason why is his post season performances generally aren't as good as his regular seasons. His rating drops and his turn overs go up in the post season. Even he maintained his reg season performance, he'd be there, but he's not yet.

As for regular season, Wilson has shown he's taken the next step. I can understand some waiting to proclaim him, as he really only produced elite numbers the last half of last season. He's produced elite efficiency his entire career, but it seems like winning and raw numbers are what makes a QB "elite" and Wilson only has the winning, which is then transferred over to the defense. Wilson has consistently had one of the poorer OL's his entire career, and we have traditionally spend the least amount on our WRs in the entire league, yet he still produces.

Conversely, Rodgers' numbers dipped last year because he didn't have the skill position players he normally has. Usually, GB's WR corps is considered one of the top 5 in the game. I only mention this as I don't think it makes Rodgers a worse QB, only that it is sort of biased that while Rodgers has elite skill position "help" it never seems to ding his reputation, while Wilson has never really had elite WRs or TE's, yet he's been considered a game manager and not elite. Once again, raw numbers.

Newton is on the cusp of this, and the only reason (in my mind) is that he's only shown true consistency and accuracy improvement last year. Yes, he had no WR help and that is big for me, but he's only done it one year. If he maintains this level next year, he's taken the next step.

None of this really bothers me, but if we're going off of last year's performances and going into next year, I think Rodgers, Brady, Big Ben, Brees and Wilson should all be considered more or less interchangeable. The numbers and perfomances are there. Put Rogers on our team and I don't think you see significantly better QB play, and put Wilson on the Steelers and he puts up similar numbers to Big Ben. If Wilson performs like he did last year, I think he'll unanimously be considered top 3 going forward.
 

Anthony!

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Hawks46":17l2oo4k said:
Right now, I wouldn't put Wilson in the top 3. The only reason why is his post season performances generally aren't as good as his regular seasons. His rating drops and his turn overs go up in the post season. Even he maintained his reg season performance, he'd be there, but he's not yet.

As for regular season, Wilson has shown he's taken the next step. I can understand some waiting to proclaim him, as he really only produced elite numbers the last half of last season. He's produced elite efficiency his entire career, but it seems like winning and raw numbers are what makes a QB "elite" and Wilson only has the winning, which is then transferred over to the defense. Wilson has consistently had one of the poorer OL's his entire career, and we have traditionally spend the least amount on our WRs in the entire league, yet he still produces.

Conversely, Rodgers' numbers dipped last year because he didn't have the skill position players he normally has. Usually, GB's WR corps is considered one of the top 5 in the game. I only mention this as I don't think it makes Rodgers a worse QB, only that it is sort of biased that while Rodgers has elite skill position "help" it never seems to ding his reputation, while Wilson has never really had elite WRs or TE's, yet he's been considered a game manager and not elite. Once again, raw numbers.

Newton is on the cusp of this, and the only reason (in my mind) is that he's only shown true consistency and accuracy improvement last year. Yes, he had no WR help and that is big for me, but he's only done it one year. If he maintains this level next year, he's taken the next step.

None of this really bothers me, but if we're going off of last year's performances and going into next year, I think Rodgers, Brady, Big Ben, Brees and Wilson should all be considered more or less interchangeable. The numbers and perfomances are there. Put Rogers on our team and I don't think you see significantly better QB play, and put Wilson on the Steelers and he puts up similar numbers to Big Ben. If Wilson performs like he did last year, I think he'll unanimously be considered top 3 going forward.

ahh you do realize that Wilson has one of the best QB rating in the post season ever right? In fact he is top 10.

Comparing to Rodgers
Rodgers 5.8% td%, 2.7 int%, 7.4 YPA, 63% complt%
Wilson 5.8 td%, 3.3 int%, 8.4 ypa, 62% complt%

So yeah no.

As to Newton when he can complete over 60% of his passes consistently then he can be in the talk until then ahh no
 

jammerhawk

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What exactly is a tier 1 QB?

In 4 seasons played this QB has tied the all-time rookie QB TD total, has been to the playoffs each season, starred in two consecutive Super Bowls winning one, and almost winning the 2nd, has an extraordinary passer rating compared to other QBs, is strong armed, accurate, athletic, and is hard to tackle by pass rushers. Yep, he's shorter than normal, yep, he's been required to be very mobile b/c of his weak OLine protection, however, he sure has won an awful lot of games w/o turning the ball over like some the supposed elite players apparently ranked a tier 1 QB.

Who exactly is doing the ranking, and why isn't Wilson's onfield success factored higher in the assessment.

Of course, he's a tier 1 QB.
 

scutterhawk

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ivotuk":35qpbuj7 said:
Felt that Sando is worth his own thread. :2thumbs:

BROCK AND SALK

Mike Sando says Russell Wilson still might not be a tier 1 QB

ORIGINALLY AIRED: TUESDAY, JULY 05, 2016

ESPN's Mike Sando says Seahawks QB Russell Wilson still might not be considered a tier 1 QB in the NFL.


http://sports.mynorthwest.com/category/ ... and%20Salk
LOL, and Brock ( an ex-NFL Quarterback) disagrees.
 

scutterhawk

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jammerhawk":2s1e61yt said:
What exactly is a tier 1 QB?

In 4 seasons played this QB has tied the all-time rookie QB TD total, has been to the playoffs each season, starred in two consecutive Super Bowls winning one, and almost winning the 2nd, has an extraordinary passer rating compared to other QBs, is strong armed, accurate, athletic, and is hard to tackle by pass rushers. Yep, he's shorter than normal, yep, he's been required to be very mobile b/c of his weak OLine protection, however, he sure has won an awful lot of games w/o turning the ball over like some the supposed elite players apparently ranked a tier 1 QB.

Who exactly is doing the ranking, and why isn't Wilson's onfield success factored higher in the assessment.

Of course, he's a tier 1 QB.
^^^^ What he said^^^^ :irishdrinkers:
 

Laloosh

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scutterhawk":2dpvhgdb said:
ivotuk":2dpvhgdb said:
Felt that Sando is worth his own thread. :2thumbs:

BROCK AND SALK

Mike Sando says Russell Wilson still might not be a tier 1 QB

ORIGINALLY AIRED: TUESDAY, JULY 05, 2016

ESPN's Mike Sando says Seahawks QB Russell Wilson still might not be considered a tier 1 QB in the NFL.


http://sports.mynorthwest.com/category/ ... and%20Salk
LOL, and Brock ( an ex-NFL Quarterback) disagrees.

Does Brock disagree that current NFL personnel (scouts, GMs, etc.) have communicated to Mike Sando that Russell might not be considered a tier 1 QB?

Sando wasn't expressing his opinion. He was communicating what he had heard from others.

Mike is probably the most pragmatic writer I've read from ESPN.
 

HansGruber

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Laloosh":2kg3udm5 said:
scutterhawk":2kg3udm5 said:
ivotuk":2kg3udm5 said:
Felt that Sando is worth his own thread. :2thumbs:

BROCK AND SALK

Mike Sando says Russell Wilson still might not be a tier 1 QB

ORIGINALLY AIRED: TUESDAY, JULY 05, 2016

ESPN's Mike Sando says Seahawks QB Russell Wilson still might not be considered a tier 1 QB in the NFL.


http://sports.mynorthwest.com/category/ ... and%20Salk
LOL, and Brock ( an ex-NFL Quarterback) disagrees.

Does Brock disagree that current NFL personnel (scouts, GMs, etc.) have communicated to Mike Sando that Russell might not be considered a tier 1 QB?

Sando wasn't expressing his opinion. He was communicating what he had heard from others.

Mike is probably the most pragmatic writer I've read from ESPN.

Brock wasn't disagreeing with Sando, he was disagreeing with the opinion that Sando was sharing.
 
A

Anonymous

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If Russell, Aaron, Andrew, Ben, Cam, Carson, Drew, Tom.... were all lined up at the 50 yard line. Then were asked to each throw 20 balls through diesel truck tires mounted 3 feet off the ground, at the goal line, from a three step drop. Russell Wilson would have the highest score. I believe this by a country mile.

Move them each up to the 35 yard line, same exercise. Rodgers' scores would approach Russell's, but not beat him, same with almost all of the others. Move all those QB's to the 20 yard line? All of them would make 100% of the throws. If they didn't, they are hitting the tire near the middle.

Arm strength and accuracy is not a problem with any of them, especially with Rodgers. With Brady, it's the intimidation factor, with Ben, it's the seeds to lay it out there anyway, Palmer, it's the ability to adapt to scheme changes, etc., etc. Each of the QB's I list bring an additional element to their game that goes beyond arm strength or simple statistical analysis, they are coached, protected and schemed-for differently, thus it is impossible to ultimately compare them. Especially when you toss in Cam's game, which is different every time he plays.

Call me a homer, but if I had my choice of any of those guys in the league, Russ is my choice. Preparation, conditioning, tenacity, adaptation, selflessness, accuracy, speed, durability, and just plain old-fashioned toughness. To me, it is the pure athleticism packed into a more versatile package, that is more capable of making more things happen well more easily, that gravitates me to Russell Wilson. By far he is the most capable of providing anything he is asked to do better than those other guys, and will do it all game long.

"Rodgers? Brady? Yeah, we're gonna want you to run the play-action boot to your left with only a TE blocking and throw across the formation to the RB on a wheel route 18 yards downfield, and hit him in stride!"

Uhhhh.... no.
 

theincrediblesok

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Maybe it's the same old Scouts and GM's that have placed Wilson under the backup QB category and is hoping he would fall so they can finally be right? Some don't want to admit it yet.
 

Overseasfan

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Wilson is a QB who has played every single game for us over a four year period. In this time he has a regular season record of 46-18 and a post-season record of 7-3. He won us a Superbowl and always at least made it to the divisional round. He is second all time in QBR, has well over 60% completion percentage and throws roughly three times as many TDs as INTs. Next to these impressive numbers he's also a weapon in the running game and a respected leader on and off the field.

But sure, he's not elite cause he's short.
 

AVL

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One third of those interviewed noted that he was still five ten and five eighths inches tall.

Height bias is real (and at times justified).
 

MizzouHawkGal

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Overseasfan":2md95me2 said:
Wilson is a QB who has played every single game for us over a four year period. In this time he has a regular season record of 46-18 and a post-season record of 7-3. He won us a Superbowl and always at least made it to the divisional round. He is second all time in QBR, has well over 60% completion percentage and throws roughly three times as many TDs as INTs. Next to these impressive numbers he's also a weapon in the running game and a respected leader on and off the field.

But sure, he's not elite cause he's short.
In fact, his height is a huge factor in why he's not considered elite by a certain segment of scouts. They have a specific visual in their mind that they can't get past.
 
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