Miller & Kirwin on Sirius NFL Radio take issue with Russell

[FargoHawk]

He has the most come backs in the NFL the past two years

That is the most useless stat for measuring the quality of a qb.

Tebow had a bunch of comebacks when he played, but they had to "come back" because they couldnt do anything for 3 quarters.

Id rather have a qb with 0 comebacks because we led the whole game.

That isnt a knock on wilson, but come backs are meaningless.

From one Bjorn to another - Dude, you are so wrong.

QBs leading their team on a game winning drive is clutch. It builds confidence from your teammates. It provides hope to the entire team that the game is never over. It further establishes him as the leader.

Of course we all would rather "led the whole game" but that's not realistic.

 

[HawkFan72]

Tom Brady's 1st year as a starter: Less than 3,000 yards passing, 18 TDs and 12 INTs. 7 games with less than 200 yards and 4 more with less than 220. That is 11 of the 15 games he started with less than 220 yards passing. And 4 of his 18 TDs came in 1 game against the (at the time) crappy Saints.

In his 2nd year, his numbers looked better, over 3,700 yards passing, 28 TDs and 14 INTs. But he still had 6 games passing less than 200 yards.

These analysts need to at least compare Wilson's 1st 2 years to Brady's 1st 2 years rather than comparing Wilson's first 2 years to Brady's whole career. It just isn't a fair comparison.

 

[lobohawk]

He has the most come backs in the NFL the past two years

That is the most useless stat for measuring the quality of a qb.

Tebow had a bunch of comebacks when he played, but they had to "come back" because they couldnt do anything for 3 quarters.

Id rather have a qb with 0 comebacks because we led the whole game.

That isnt a knock on wilson, but come backs are meaningless.

From one Bjorn to another - Dude, you are so wrong.

QBs leading their team on a game winning drive is clutch. It builds confidence from your teammates. It provides hope to the entire team that the game is never over. It further establishes him as the leader.

Of course we all would rather "led the whole game" but that's not realistic.

Additionally, QBs that have to lead a comeback are usually confronting a defense that is keying on their need to make plays (sometimes pass a lot) and this can indicate a QBs ability to deal with pressure situations (every play counts).

On the flip side, you're correct that the comeback stats can be referenced too many times by analysts as a QB defining stat. In isolation it can have value, but without the context of a whole game's performance it can be misleading. Imagine the QB that throws 4 INTs in the first half to put the team in a hole, but leads a late comeback to win the game. If you only count the comeback, then you miss that it was required because of the earlier QB play. This was often the case when analysts talked about Luck in his first year. All those comebacks, but often it was him overcoming earlier mistakes.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Comebacks are meaningless??? Um............

 

[Scottemojo]

Comebacks are meaningless??? Um............

I know, I laughed too.

I think that guy might subscribe to some dumb theory that if a QB does his job right, you don't get behind the other team. Which fails to explain why Joe Montana and John Elway were so good at coming from behind to win. Right?

SMH.

 

[EastCoastHawksFan]

He has the most come backs in the NFL the past two years

That is the most useless stat for measuring the quality of a qb.


That isnt a knock on wilson, but come backs are meaningless.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA comebacks are meaningless !!! hahahaha best thing ive heard all off season. Thanks man I appreciate the laugh.

 

[scutterhawk]

Weird I was listening to that show yesterday and someone called in to ask them about that very subject and they specifically said the height issue was there but moot because of wilsons ability to make plays and buy time, but also because of his remarkably high release. The talked about Seneca Wallace and his poor release always getting balls batted down.

to any talk about not giving Wilson a contract and franchising him id really have to hear it, but a lot of these analysts lately are talking about how because of the way rookie contracts are set up, its almost worth while to franchise a guy for a year
before giving him his big contract because every new contract you give is going to try to out do the last one so if you franchise them you basically cam average that out with their 3, 4, or 5 year rookie deal to get an average that is club friendly. Maybe that us what they meant?

This^, I can see where this theory makes the most sense.
When it comes to Russell Wilson?, I think SOME people are being hyper sensitive around here, so much so, that whoever talks about him, had better be able to walk on rice paper, and utter nothing but accolades.
I'm pretty close to being in this group :16:

 

[Hawknballs]

It's like the 'short arms' debate for linemen. Yes having short arms as a lineman is a detriment, but if you are talented and disciplined enough you can still be great. Doesn't mean that you don't still have the physical shortcoming. It just means you've compensated and surpassed it. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist anymore.

 

[Seanhawk]

RW has the most wins in history in his first 2 years, including a world championship.

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[MeanBlueGreen]

Good thing that 45 other players suit up to help Wilson WIN games.

Man what's wrong with people.

If we had the an average defense and one of the worst running games Wilson could be getting 500-600 snaps.

But the Seahawks don't and never should under PC/JS and Co. And PC has his philosphy about ball control, he even pulls Wilson when other teams are smashed. He's not worried about Russell Wilson getting stats, nor his Wilson, they both only care about winning. Maybe it isn't sexy but its hard to argue with the success of a Championship when you're a twenty-five year old ,28 wins to 9 losses QB that just finished his Sophomore season.

Tom Brady wasn't dynamite his first 3-4 seasons either. I rather have Wilson than have to deal with more Jeykl and Hyde QBs like Luck and Kaepernick. At least Wilson has better excuse not only is he 5'11 but he didn't get gifted a HoF WR to smooth his transition (Moss, Wayne) and Wilson has had to deal with the worst pass protection yet produced consistent numbers in consecutive years despite everything that was holding the Seahawks offense back at times.

Seahawks may not win more Championships, but they'll contend for them, and be a play-off team for quite a
while because of a consistent dedicated to his craft leader like Russell Wilson.

Not sure I would lump Andrew Luck in with Kapernick. Luck certainly has a lot more potential to be one of the all time greats. I think we will see a lot more of Russell Wilson's passing ability this year as Marshawn's production falls off and we go to a more running back by committee approach. I mean it's logical considering the emphasis on WRs this year.

And the Patriots had a stifling defense in most of the SB years - very Seattle like in its' hybrid nature...

 

[WilsonMVP]

I heard them. I didn't take any slight out of it. I thought they did a good job of explaining why it is so dam hard to do what the Patriots have done. It isn't like we have 3 buffoons of a franchise like the Phins, Jets, and Bills to help us along with a load of division championships like the Pats either. Besides, most of the fun in being a fan comes in watching your team do things people think they can't. This team is easily one of the least conventional groups of players and coaches we have ever seen. That will lead to some doubts from certain quarters.

I am not the biggest fan of Jim Miller's radio skills, but Kirwan has never been unfair as an analyst.

This is the SECOND main reason the Patriots have been such a good franchise for the last 13-14 years, basically since Brady has been there. That division has got to be the most god awful division in all of football outside the patriots.

Other than Brady what QB has been on the Jets, Dolphins or Bills that has been even average let alone good at all the past 10 or so years.

The bills had Bledsoe I guess for 3 years in 2002-2005...his best season was 24/15 and a 86 rating
Jets had Pennington who was injured half the time
Dolphins had...uh....hmmmm..Pennington for one year haha

 

[Tech Worlds]

The Patriots and the Colts for years had very little competition standing between them and 10 to 12 wins each and every year.

 

[WilsonMVP]

The Patriots and the Colts for years had very little competition standing between them and 10 to 12 wins each and every year.

Ya...the Steelers had the Ravens to deal with at least in their division...Pats and Colts got to go on cruise control to the playoffs.

 

[Scottemojo]

The Patriots and the Colts for years had very little competition standing between them and 10 to 12 wins each and every year.

That is STILL the Colts.

 

[ivotuk]

I heard them. I didn't take any slight out of it. I thought they did a good job of explaining why it is so dam hard to do what the Patriots have done. It isn't like we have 3 buffoons of a franchise like the Phins, Jets, and Bills to help us along with a load of division championships like the Pats either. Besides, most of the fun in being a fan comes in watching your team do things people think they can't. This team is easily one of the least conventional groups of players and coaches we have ever seen. That will lead to some doubts from certain quarters.

I am not the biggest fan of Jim Miller's radio skills, but Kirwan has never been unfair as an analyst.

Spot. On.

Russell Wilson has beat THE BEST defenses in the NFL including some outside of the division.

Come back wins is a great stat, especially when they are against elite defenses like Houston. and Tampa Bay was no slouch either.

Tebow can not take credit for any come back wins he had because he didn't do it with superior Quarterbacking skills like Russell Wilson has.

 

[rideaducati]

I think you started listening to the comments half way through. They stated that they ORIGINALLY thought those things would hinder him and were spouting how OTHERS tout Russell as a "game manger". Pat Kirwan doesn't like the term as a way for "experts" to degrade a QB because every QB is required to manage a game.

Kirwan is a fan of Russell. Miller is a Bears honk and doesn't do much research into anything not Bear related, but spouts off like he knows what is going on.

 

[Smellyman]

He has the most come backs in the NFL the past two years

That is the most useless stat for measuring the quality of a qb.

Tebow had a bunch of comebacks when he played, but they had to "come back" because they couldnt do anything for 3 quarters.

Id rather have a qb with 0 comebacks because we led the whole game.

That isnt a knock on wilson, but come backs are meaningless.

except in this case, it is run run run run, conservative conservative conservative.

Oh we are behind? Russell put the team on your back.

 

[Cartire]

I think you started listening to the comments half way through. They stated that they ORIGINALLY thought those things would hinder him and were spouting how OTHERS tout Russell as a "game manger". Pat Kirwan doesn't like the term as a way for "experts" to degrade a QB because every QB is required to manage a game.

Kirwan is a fan of Russell. Miller is a Bears honk and doesn't do much research into anything not Bear related, but spouts off like he knows what is going on.

Thank you. I knew it couldn't be the whole story. I listen to PK all the time. He's good friends with Pete ever since there days together in San Fransisco. He thinks Russell is a great QB.

The OPs comments just seemed completely different from their normal rhetoric.