My take on the current OL situation

[mrt144]

John Schneider, Pete Carroll, Tom Cable, Darrell Bevell, Scott Fitterer, and Trent Kirchner have all addressed talent scouting, acquisition and development as the years have gone by. And, it's all archieved for those who haven't followed along. It's not like they have withheld how they operate as some dark secret. They have really been very open and forth coming about much of their process and how they operate.

Well, yes, teamwork is how any organization operates. What people are taking increasing issue with is the deteriorating performance. Their approach has yielded results that are, for lack of a more accute term, unacceptable. Do you disagree?

They suffered too much attrition too quickly to cover the talent and chemistry losses of the past two years. I view much of that as a product of circumstances outside of the control of all of the people listed above.

Simultaneously, the replacements they are finding are so raw that they haven't been able to get up to speed quickly enough to provide reliable blocking. They have starters that have struggled to settle in at new positions within the span of a single season.

I am of the opinion that there is and has been a persistent shortage of NFL ready linemen. And, the NFL has yet to address that problem. Evidence that the shortage extends down into the college level is reflected In a recently published story of Rees Odhiambo. This years struggle with the offensive line was not a surprise for this fan. Their process hasn't failed. But it is taking longer to coach these kids up because of limitations on practice time at both the college and pro levels. These developmental delays are a product of todays practice rules and not a signal of problems with team programs.

This young nucleus of linemen has a lot of upside. Selective retention will become key in an era when development takes longer. So I think the changes we have seen is a product the practice restrictions and shortage of NFL ready prospects ..... resulting in longer development times. They got caught short on experience and chemistry this year. That's what so many are upset about.

For me, it is not a matter of acceptance so much as it is a matter of understanding what has transpired.

Its not the NFLs job to make it easier for the Seahawks to metagame the OL position group and feel no negative effect. That is such a ridiculous cop out especially since not every team whiffs as hard as the Seahawks have on their regular draft picks nor have engaged in dubious conversion shit like the Seahawks have. Not every team in the NFL is suffering at OL like we are. Bad teams with bad GMs and bad coaches are. By the grace of our defense are we not in the Colts shoes.

edit: How crazy is it to claim their process hasnt failed when results of divestment of the line and engaging in divergent strategies from 2014 onward has resulted in the current abysmal line we have where the collective experience is so paltry and the play is so laughably bad.

How would we validate the process has or hasnt failed by your standards? Dont give me that Sam Hinkie process BS. That is something a loser who doesbt get results hides behind.

Edit2: This situation wasnt unavoidable, it was actively courted by every FO transaction made.

 

[Jville]

John Schneider, Pete Carroll, Tom Cable, Darrell Bevell, Scott Fitterer, and Trent Kirchner have all addressed talent scouting, acquisition and development as the years have gone by. And, it's all archieved for those who haven't followed along. It's not like they have withheld how they operate as some dark secret. They have really been very open and forth coming about much of their process and how they operate.

Well, yes, teamwork is how any organization operates. What people are taking increasing issue with is the deteriorating performance. Their approach has yielded results that are, for lack of a more accute term, unacceptable. Do you disagree?

They suffered too much attrition too quickly to cover the talent and chemistry losses of the past two years. I view much of that as a product of circumstances outside of the control of all of the people listed above.

Simultaneously, the replacements they are finding are so raw that they haven't been able to get up to speed quickly enough to provide reliable blocking. They have starters that have struggled to settle in at new positions within the span of a single season.

I am of the opinion that there is and has been a persistent shortage of NFL ready linemen. And, the NFL has yet to address that problem. Evidence that the shortage extends down into the college level is reflected In a recently published story of Rees Odhiambo. This years struggle with the offensive line was not a surprise for this fan. Their process hasn't failed. But it is taking longer to coach these kids up because of limitations on practice time at both the college and pro levels. These developmental delays are a product of todays practice rules and not a signal of problems with team programs.

This young nucleus of linemen has a lot of upside. Selective retention will become key in an era when development takes longer. So I think the changes we have seen is a product the practice restrictions and shortage of NFL ready prospects ..... resulting in longer development times. They got caught short on experience and chemistry this year. That's what so many are upset about.

For me, it is not a matter of acceptance so much as it is a matter of understanding what has transpired.

Its not the NFLs job to make it easier for the Seahawks to metagame the OL position group and feel no negative effect. That is such a ridiculous cop out especially since not every team whiffs as hard as the Seahawks have nor have engaged in dubious conversion shit like the Seahawks have.

As stated above, the shortage is league wide. Also, teams thru out the league have been actively exploring all avenues of developing players including conversion projects. Finally, John Schneider is one of a group of people actively looking to address the need for a developmental league.

So it really doesn't matter what any of us individual fans approve of or disapprove of. In these times, it's just the state of the NFL.and just the way it is.

The one thing I don't expect to see going forward is for their rate of attrition to get out of hand as badly as it did with the offense line over the last two years.

 

[mrt144]

Its not the NFLs job to make it easier for the Seahawks to metagame the OL position group and feel no negative effect. That is such a ridiculous cop out especially since not every team whiffs as hard as the Seahawks have nor have engaged in dubious conversion shit like the Seahawks have.

As stated above, the shortage is league wide. Also, teams thru out the league have been actively exploring all avenues of developing players including conversion projects. Finally, John Schneider is one of a group of people actively looking to address the need for a developmental league.

So it really doesn't matter what any of us individual fans approve of or disapprove of. In these times, it's just the state of the NFL.and just the way it is.

The one thing I don't expect to see going forward is for their rate of attrition to get out of hand as badly as it did over the last two years.

The people who cant draft or coach OL to save their lives are suffering. Are you really under the delusion there havent been winners in drafting OL under the framework of player talent available? To deny that some teams are cogently able to pursue a OL building and coaching strategy that yields success is laughable. We suck at it, weve chosen some fruit loops way to go about building it, and at the end of the day the only difference between us and the Colts is JS hasnt crapped the bed with defense, quite the opposite.

Scaricity of good investments makes good speculators better and bad ones worse. A plethora of good investments can make any investor seem like they have 'it'.

 

[Jville]

Its not the NFLs job to make it easier for the Seahawks to metagame the OL position group and feel no negative effect. That is such a ridiculous cop out especially since not every team whiffs as hard as the Seahawks have nor have engaged in dubious conversion shit like the Seahawks have.

As stated above, the shortage is league wide. Also, teams thru out the league have been actively exploring all avenues of developing players including conversion projects. Finally, John Schneider is one of a group of people actively looking to address the need for a developmental league.

So it really doesn't matter what any of us individual fans approve of or disapprove of. In these times, it's just the state of the NFL.and just the way it is.

The one thing I don't expect to see going forward is for their rate of attrition to get out of hand as badly as it did over the last two years.

The people who cant draft or coach OL to save their lives are suffering. Are you really under the delusion there havent been winners in drafting OL under the framework of player talent available? To deny that some teams are cogently able to pursue a OL building and coaching strategy that yields success is laughable. We suck at it, weve chosen some fruit loops way to go about building it, and at the end of the day the only difference between us and the Colts is JS hasnt crapped the bed with defense, quite the opposite.

Your clearly upset with some of the decision makers at the VMAC. And, judging by your tone, I suspect it is not something anyone can help you with this evening.

 

[mrt144]

Its not the NFLs job to make it easier for the Seahawks to metagame the OL position group and feel no negative effect. That is such a ridiculous cop out especially since not every team whiffs as hard as the Seahawks have nor have engaged in dubious conversion shit like the Seahawks have.

As stated above, the shortage is league wide. Also, teams thru out the league have been actively exploring all avenues of developing players including conversion projects. Finally, John Schneider is one of a group of people actively looking to address the need for a developmental league.

So it really doesn't matter what any of us individual fans approve of or disapprove of. In these times, it's just the state of the NFL.and just the way it is.

The one thing I don't expect to see going forward is for their rate of attrition to get out of hand as badly as it did over the last two years.

The people who cant draft or coach OL to save their lives are suffering. Are you really under the delusion there havent been winners in drafting OL under the framework of player talent available? To deny that some teams are cogently able to pursue a OL building and coaching strategy that yields success is laughable. We suck at it, weve chosen some fruit loops way to go about building it, and at the end of the day the only difference between us and the Colts is JS hasnt crapped the bed with defense, quite the opposite.

Your clearly upset with some of the decision makers at the VMAC. And, judging by your tone, I suspect it is not something anyone can help you with this evening.

Your line about process set me off. Thats some charlatan time buying shit.

If the process hasnt failed because you are allowing for indefinite opportunity for it to succeed fine, keep on hoping. 2015 and 2016 are the unripe fruit that this team chose to grow and harvest. Again, we are fortunate that this is their biggest and most obvious failure as a org under the regime but its become a clear limit on the success of the team.

 

[Jville]

Your frustrations and objections are with those team authorities you dislike at the VMAC.

I'm but one of may fans that follows the Seahawks and enjoys listening in on first hand interviews.

Winning the 2016 NFL West Championship is validation of their program and really cool as well. 8)

 

[brimsalabim]

This is also the lowest paid offensive line. By far. Is it any surprise???

You cant make chicken salad out of chicken Sh@t.

We made horse poop out of chicken shit?
Seriously though... who really thought starting three projects with one rookie and a player cut from three other rosters would work? Why would anyone think this had even a snowballs chance of working?

 

[chris98251]

Actual selections are prospects Cable was on board with because he is part of the process. However, actual selections, in any given year, are a subset of draft board candidates. Schneider plays a crucial role on draft day in orchestrating a selection process that seeks to maximize their selection returns and produce the best draft class. There is some give and take but it is the scouts that go out and find and grade the prospects presented to coaches. It is a collective effort. They are all In it together. And that is of material significance.

The fact is that it's a failed process and Cable is and has been a significant part of it. The process has shown more regression rather than improvement year to year. Even during their Superbowl runs the weakest part of the team was the OL. The OL has been the weakest unit since 2011. Also connected with when Cable took over. He got by because Lynch and Wilson managed to cover up the deficiencies. Now that Lynch is no longer here, the problems are even more exposed. A weak unit has gotten more weaker. . The Seahawks are still trying to teach their starting OL how to block. Like they were in the offseason and preseason. They haven't moved past square one in that respect and it's week 17 of the season. The real disservice is the shoddy OL that is run out there week after week and year after year.

Well there is that and there is also the contrasting view that the failing lies with the fans incomplete understanding and comprehension of the Seahawk process and state of the NFL.

In any case, there is still no justification for propagating myths.

I don't need to understand anything, I see the results of the process every game day, I see the sacks, I see the run yardage, I see the pressures, I see a lack of points on the board.

As some have stated there is a lack of ready lineman coming out of college, if that be so why let those you have go without some ready to step in ? Sounds like a breakdown of the process and that's overall from scouting to coaching up who you do bring in.

 

[Jville]

Actual selections are prospects Cable was on board with because he is part of the process. However, actual selections, in any given year, are a subset of draft board candidates. Schneider plays a crucial role on draft day in orchestrating a selection process that seeks to maximize their selection returns and produce the best draft class. There is some give and take but it is the scouts that go out and find and grade the prospects presented to coaches. It is a collective effort. They are all In it together. And that is of material significance.

The fact is that it's a failed process and Cable is and has been a significant part of it. The process has shown more regression rather than improvement year to year. Even during their Superbowl runs the weakest part of the team was the OL. The OL has been the weakest unit since 2011. Also connected with when Cable took over. He got by because Lynch and Wilson managed to cover up the deficiencies. Now that Lynch is no longer here, the problems are even more exposed. A weak unit has gotten more weaker. . The Seahawks are still trying to teach their starting OL how to block. Like they were in the offseason and preseason. They haven't moved past square one in that respect and it's week 17 of the season. The real disservice is the shoddy OL that is run out there week after week and year after year.

Well there is that and there is also the contrasting view that the failing lies with the fans incomplete understanding and comprehension of the Seahawk process and state of the NFL.

In any case, there is still no justification for propagating myths.

I don't need to understand anything, I see the results of the process every game day, I see the sacks, I see the run yardage, I see the pressures, I see a lack of points on the board.

As some have stated there is a lack of ready lineman coming out of college, if that be so why let those you have go without some ready to step in ? Sounds like a breakdown of the process and that's overall from scouting to coaching up who you do bring in.

Have you guys forgotten your happy pills?

 

[xgeoff]

This is also the lowest paid offensive line. By far. Is it any surprise???

You cant make chicken salad out of chicken Sh@t.

This shouldn't make any difference, it didn't when Russ was making NFL Peanuts or when most of the secondary was being paid at the bottom. In each of those instances those players were coached up, played at an elite level and earned every bit of their 2nd contracts. That secondary with 1 1st rounder and a bunch of late round pick starters and backups was developed into the best secondary in the league.

Tom Cable has a say in the players that are drafted, these players are not being forced on him. During his time he has had 3 1st rounders (Okung, Carp and Ifedi), 2 2nd rounders (Unger - before Pete and Britt) 2 3rd rounders (Moffitt and Odhiambo) and 2 4th rounders (Poole and Glow) and a bunch of late round picks and FA, but has nothing to show for it. That is a lot of capital wasted. Its obvious he doesn't know how to identify talent, develop or coach it. He should be held accountable.

Btw - currently Dallas has 3 1st rounders a 4th rounder and UFA starting on what most consider the best Oline in the business. Cable has had similar talent (draft round) and his lines have consistently been at the bottom.

Exactly. We *have* spent significant draft capital on the o-line and, for the most part, ended up with garbage. Cable is a poor judge of talent.


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[Jville]

*** That's the spirit.

After all, can there ever be too many "lets blame it on Cable" threads? :229031_shrug:

 

[HawaiiD]

Im hoping Cable will volunteer his resignation at the end of the Season. If Cable for some stupid reason thinks he putting a good/average product on the field to be successful? Then he really isn't fit to be coaching our O-line.

Sent from my HTC 10 via the Coconut Wireless

 

[Leee-roy]

I've been leading the fire Cable train since 2014 and finally people have begun to open their eyes. I'm a visual learner and have summed up my current views in the graphic below. I don't think we can jump up two scales to make a run for the SB unless we Space Jam steal talents from the Dallas Oline. Russell and Marshawn masked a lot of Cables deficiencies. Enough with the bull poop of lowest paid OL. Arizona was on their 7th different OL combination and yet they were able to give Carson a pocket for the entire series except the first drive.

You nailed it!!!

 

[Leee-roy]

I really think Wilson panics way to soon.
kl
It's only logical, he wants to extend the play and if he's trapped inside the pocket, there is no where to run.

SO, what you have is two choices.
1 Stay in the pocket and make a last moment pass, ala Brady,
2 Escape the pocket before it collapses and hope you can extend the play, problem is, teams are so good now at containing him, that escape is almost not a choice anymore, especially with his injuries this year.

well my 2 c

I think the reason Wilson panics to soon is his first read is not down the field, but "am I going to get crushed in the first 1.5 seconds?"

 

[HawKnPeppa]

This is also the lowest paid offensive line. By far. Is it any surprise???

You cant make chicken salad out of chicken Sh@t.

Give me a break. Arizona was on their 7th different combination of OL. Yet somehow they were able to give Palmer a pocket to throw from. Yet our genius can't coach up our starter? The pass blocking has been atrocious since 2013 and it's time people take off their rose colored glasses.

Glowinski - 4th round pick
Britt - 2nd round pick
Ifedi - 1st round pick

All have sucked except Britt (on his 3rd different position) and all were handpicked by Cable. At some point people will need to admit he has a terrible eye for talent along with being a terrible coach.

:sarcasm_on: Pass protection is not important. Just ask Cable...he knows more than all or us :sarcasm_off: :179422:

 

[OwnTheWest]

Tom Cable is the assistant head coach, which tells me he's valued more than OC Bevell. Also, I believe the front office from Mr. Allen on down are bought into the idea that Cable can coach up a group of athletes into a serviceable OL, and thereby grant the team a sustainable competitive advantage in this salary-capped league.

For example: We won the Super Bowl with McQuistan (14 Starts), Carpenter (10 starts), Unger (13), Sweezy (R, 15), and Giacomini (9). Okung (8) and Unger were the only decent starters and plagued with health issues, but it was enough due to our elite defense.

Of that group, Okung and Sweezy were eventually let walk. A decision that (should) lead to compensatory picks.

So based on the premise of "winning forever":

If we can continue to field an offensive line for < $10M/yr and get a comp pick or two as they roll off, we can continue to pay our elite defensive starters and maintain a top 5 scoring defense. That is how this team has positioned itself since PCJS came in and I don't see any reason for them to change.

THAT is also why I don't see Tom Cable going anywhere.


What DOESN'T make sense to me is why PC and Cable say we want to be a physical, run-first offense and yet our big FA signings are always finesse players like Rice, Harvin and Graham. In fact, every year before this one we started out trying to out-cute the opposing defenses and then in the stretch started getting more and more smashmouth (ty Marshawn!). This year we never got serious it seems, and I'm hoping for a coaching change; but like I said above, I don't see it being Cable.