New National Anthem Policy

[Seymour]

I also heard that fines will be at the discretion of the individual teams so some teams may chose not to impose penalties.

A few things. First, it says that the NFL will fine teams that have people not standing for the anthem, so teams would take a hit (which one would have to assume increases with frequency) each time someone didn't stand for the anthem. Second, it also states that teams may set their own policies as long as they follow the guidelines set forth in the league-wide policy, so I don't see any teams allowing players to come out and not stand for the anthem. Finally, it says that the commissioner will discipline any personnel not standing for the anthem.

There's really not any room for teams to just allow it to happen unless they are willing to fork over the fine money every week. I just don't see this happening.

It took all of one day for this to happen actually.

The National Football League on Wednesday approved a new policy that could fine teams if players don't stand for the national anthem, but at least one of the top team executives doesn't plan on penalizing its players for their right to protest. New York Jets chairman and CEO Christopher Johnson told Newsday he would pay any fine handed down by the NFL, allowing players to freely kneel during the "Star-Spangled Banner" –– without fear of repercussions from the team.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-yo...nthem-kneeling-woody-johnson-president-trump/

 

[sutz]

But,,,,,, then again everything is political right, even the flag?

And there's the root of the issue...patriotism should be above politics.

IMHO the problem is when politics becomes your religion it's easy to put it above patriotism.

Perhaps the problem is too much "religious" fervor directed to patriotism. I'm not sure who decided who was the arbiter of "real" patriotism. Much like being a "real" fan, it just doesn't work.

 

[Osprey]

I've never liked the idea of patriotism being above politics. Politics is at the very heart of a country, particularly a democracy. Suggesting that love of country should come before politics . . . well, that just means you want people to put away their views to agree with yours. That's a line of argument that we see not just with patriotism but with pretty much everything related to the government. Never had much taste for that argument.

Couldn't disagree more. Patriotism is love of Country, Politics is what direction the country is going. Do you stop loving a family member because they've made bad decisions or focus on correcting the behavior?

Oh and government is not country, but I can see how it's easy to confuse the two considering the current overreach of bloated bureaucracy at all levels.

 

[Osprey]

Perhaps the problem is too much "religious" fervor directed to patriotism. I'm not sure who decided who was the arbiter of "real" patriotism. Much like being a "real" fan, it just doesn't work.

Same issue really...politics are no substitute for patriotism and patriotism is no substitute for faith.

 

[seahawkfreak]

But,,,,,, then again everything is political right, even the flag?

And there's the root of the issue...patriotism should be above politics.

IMHO the problem is when politics becomes your religion it's easy to put it above patriotism.

I've never liked the idea of patriotism being above politics. Politics is at the very heart of a country, particularly a democracy. Suggesting that love of country should come before politics . . . well, that just means you want people to put away their views to agree with yours. That's a line of argument that we see not just with patriotism but with pretty much everything related to the government. Never had much taste for that argument.

Well putting politics into everything divides the population. I can guarantee you that the members on this forum do not agree politically. People just do not agree on how a government should be run. That said we are talking football.

I grew up playing and rooting for sports teams and thinking, why wouldn't you want the best players on your team. I come from a generation that if you are a law abiding citizen why wouldn't you want top talent on your side? It is about winning. I don't care. Was the same in the Infantry.

Politics now a days, well probably forever, is disgusting. For instance if I disagree with Doug Baldwin and his views on the recent anthem protests, there is a very large part of people that would call me racists and would say "I just don't understand the struggle."

Wait what, can't I be a fan of Doug but disagree with him in his views? I won't delve into how political dictators push their views but there are a lot of people that would tell me, "no if you disagree with him, you are racist". Then I sit there thinking well I have his jersey and root for him to produce each game, how am I a racist?

It's because people who cannot produce facts have to make a sensational drama and call everyone sexists, bigoted, homophobes when you disagree with their views. A conversation is not possible.

Yeah,,,, big lump sum of political bullshit. How bout we keep sports pure. I'm ok with most or all of the NFL being whatever skin color,, I just want my team to win.

 

[HawkGA]

I've never liked the idea of patriotism being above politics. Politics is at the very heart of a country, particularly a democracy. Suggesting that love of country should come before politics . . . well, that just means you want people to put away their views to agree with yours. That's a line of argument that we see not just with patriotism but with pretty much everything related to the government. Never had much taste for that argument.

Couldn't disagree more. Patriotism is love of Country, Politics is what direction the country is going. Do you stop loving a family member because they've made bad decisions or focus on correcting the behavior?

Oh and government is not country, but I can see how it's easy to confuse the two considering the current overreach of bloated bureaucracy at all levels.

That was sloppy wording on my part. I absolutely agree that country and government are two separate things. It's probably my big reason for not liking the protests (as in, people are protesting a very broad group when the issues they claim to be wanting to highlight are more specific than that). But my intended point was that people tend to bring up patriotism on issues that are actually political, not simply about the country.

 

[Cyrus12]

“It’s been beaten to death..”

I mean I doubt you meant to be ironic. But Jesus.

What a crap policy and a crappy way to connect with your players.

I get people are sensitive about the anthem. But there are very few moments any athlete, especially of color, has an opportunity to make a statement that may actually be acknowledged. For that they are resigned to the underbelly of the stadium, out of site.. literally not to offend the very people they are pleading to.

This is unfortunate. NFL had a chance here.




America has enemies. None bigger than itself.

Nailed it.

I hope every single player stays in the locker room, that will be powerful and sends a very similar message.

Well they have that choice without being penalized. If every team does that then I think its sends a stronger message than just a guy or two taking a knee. I doubt it happens though as it is unlikely every player would buy into it. I also agree players can do other things than just protest the anthem every Sunday. They can get involved in their own time with other organizations. Then again maybe it is just a matter of convenience to do it on sundays. The NFL is the employer and the player the employee. Anywhere I've worked politics and religion are a no no. NFL can do what it wants to protect its brand and keep the fans happy. It's not like the players are going to quit playing as a result.

 

[getnasty]

The owners really dicked up on this. It almost seemed like a non issue at the end of last year and they went and fired it back up. Why doesn't the NBA catch any flack for making there players stand?

 

[seahawkfreak]

The owners really dicked up on this. It almost seemed like a non issue at the end of last year and they went and fired it back up. Why doesn't the NBA catch any flack for making there players stand?

Umm bullshit. NBA doesn't get pushback because they are not soft on this issue. The NFL is/was soft and if anything the NFL recognized what the NBA has done and wants to replicate it. You want political discourse, go somewhere else. Is that possible? I mean you leftist have Hollywood, main stream Media, Universities, schools and just about every institution in our country and now everyone wants to throw a piss fit because most Americans do not want this shit in our sports. I personally don't want this in the political battle ground, in other words,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, no politics in sports! Sports are one of the last bastions that unite our population.

 

[replicant]

The owners really dicked up on this. It almost seemed like a non issue at the end of last year and they went and fired it back up. Why doesn't the NBA catch any flack for making there players stand?

Umm bullshit. NBA doesn't get pushback because they are not soft on this issue. The NFL is/was soft and if anything the NFL recognized what the NBA has done and wants to replicate it. You want political discourse, go somewhere else. Is that possible? I mean you leftist have Hollywood, main stream Media, Universities, schools and just about every institution in our country and now everyone wants to throw a piss fit because most Americans do not want this shit in our sports. I personally don't want this in the political battle ground, in other words,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, no politics in sports! Sports are one of the last bastions that unite our population.

:2thumbs:

 

[getnasty]

The owners really dicked up on this. It almost seemed like a non issue at the end of last year and they went and fired it back up. Why doesn't the NBA catch any flack for making there players stand?

Umm bullshit. NBA doesn't get pushback because they are not soft on this issue. The NFL is/was soft and if anything the NFL recognized what the NBA has done and wants to replicate it. You want political discourse, go somewhere else. Is that possible? I mean you leftist have Hollywood, main stream Media, Universities, schools and just about every institution in our country and now everyone wants to throw a piss fit because most Americans do not want this shit in our sports. I personally don't want this in the political battle ground, in other words,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, no politics in sports! Sports are one of the last bastions that unite our population.

Don't get me wrong I don't disagree with the owners I'm just saying if they had done nothing this was gonna blow over, toward the end of the year I don't even remember protest being an issue. I wish the NFL did exactly what the NBA does I just wonder why nobody says shit about the NBA.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

I get it, NFL players want to use their platform to help society. I still cannot for the life of me understand two things.

1. Why the EMPLOYER is allowing EMPLOYEES to protest at work. How about you go to work and try to protest anything. Sure, you'll see UNIONS schedule protest, walkouts etc. That is an item voted upon and supported by the union as a whole to better the group.

2. What does one hope to accomplish by disrespecting the symbol of our great nation? Seriously how on earth can choosing to disrespect our national anthem and flag accomplish anything? It should light a fire in any red-blooded American. If it doesn't, there's something wrong with you. (and the only response I hear to this is saying I'm an A-hole or closed minde... or racist... nope not at all. If it's a crime to love my country, lock me up.)

If I were the DOD I would cease and desist all honors and ceremonies at NFL events. If I were the NFL, I would use that opportunity to have the players themselves honor our country. Anyone who has taken part in a Flag presentation at Century Link will tell you how much work goes into that. AND if I were the NFL not honoring your nation would be severely penalized. The head coach would immediately be ejected from the game. There are no bad teams, only bad leaders.

So no, I don't agree with the policy. I think it's another pile of PC garbage in a society that has a very short memory. These "protests" aren't about some great social injustice. They cannot be compared to the civil rights movement in an era where this country had LAWS preventing people from doing things based on the color of their skin. This is more about Mark Zuckerberg's multi-billion dollar tabloid "social media" giant pushing 30 second pieces of propaganda into the hands of weak minded individuals who can't form an opinion. Those puppets fail to use their platform to bring our country together. Instead they continue to divide it. Newsflash..... guess what happens when the US is divided. Here's a statistic for you, as many people died in the Civil War as all other wars combined. Learn from the past. Bring the country together, don't divide it.

The world would be a better place if more celebrities were like J.J. Watt and less like Michael Bennett.

-When you're runnin' down our country, man, You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me- -Merle Haggard-

 

[Rocket]

There are a poop-load of paths on the road to effective protest. Protesting the anthem or flag are not effective protest paths. This one was picked by a star-struck lovesick quarterback and a single soldier athlete. Arguably they made a poor choice and stepped off the path and into a minefield.

Just pick a different method for protesting the inequalities of race relations in America, one that doesn't piss off so many people, one that doesn't effect your employers revenue stream.

This isn't rocket science. Pissing off the opposition may give you giggles, but in the long run you'll lose.

 

[OkieHawk]

There are a poop-load of paths on the road to effective protest. Protesting the anthem or flag are not effective protest paths. This one was picked by a star-struck lovesick quarterback and a single soldier athlete. Arguably they made a poor choice and stepped off the path and into a minefield.

Just pick a different method for protesting the inequalities of race relations in America, one that doesn't piss off so many people, one that doesn't effect your employers revenue stream.

This isn't rocket science. Pissing off the opposition may give you giggles, but in the long run you'll lose.

They weren't trying to piss of the "opposition" though. That's you projecting your feelings onto their protest.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

There are a poop-load of paths on the road to effective protest. Protesting the anthem or flag are not effective protest paths. This one was picked by a star-struck lovesick quarterback and a single soldier athlete. Arguably they made a poor choice and stepped off the path and into a minefield.

Just pick a different method for protesting the inequalities of race relations in America, one that doesn't piss off so many people, one that doesn't effect your employers revenue stream.

This isn't rocket science. Pissing off the opposition may give you giggles, but in the long run you'll lose.

They weren't trying to piss of the "opposition" though. That's you projecting your feelings onto their protest.

Here's why they say they started it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html

 

[OkieHawk]

Here's why they say they started it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html

Yep, against police brutality. I thought this was already widely known...

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

Here's why they say they started it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html

Yep, against police brutality. I thought this was already widely known...

Yes, but when I read his opinion I see something glaring. Instead of starting a foundation to improve inner city race relations, or bringing police officers into schools in a non-enforcement capacity ala D.A.R.E. they chose a path of disrespect.

 

[Rocket]

Here's why they say they started it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html

Yep, against police brutality. I thought this was already widely known...

I believe I said that... race relations. It's not just police brutality, it's more complex than that. In any event, it would be prudent, imho, for those protesting to pick another path. This one is clearly clogged.

 

[Rocket]

Speaking of clogged, Sox and Okie offer up the NYTimes Eric Reid article as proof of the protesters intentions,

If you find the Nate Boyer reference in the article and click thru the link in the paragraph saying "we should kneel", you get what I see as a mission statement from Kaep himself.

I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color

from https://www.colorofchange.org/campaigns/kneel-with-colin-kaepernick/

If one is not going to show pride in their country, in the generally accepted method of the National Anthem, then it's reasonable to take that as disrespect. Reid didn't start the protest, Kaepernick did. His words, his protest, his web page and a short, and to the point, statement of his intentions.

I suggest the following NYT piece on Kaep, and his education. It opened my eyes at the time, and is why I always come around to Nessa, and why I used the word "giggle". YMMV, of course.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/07/sports/colin-kaepernick-nfl-protests.html

But, regardless of what Kaep does, the above was for clarification as to goals, it's quite probable that there will be Seahawks skipping practices, etc, to get kaep and ei jobs. There are rumors that some players are organizing sit-outs.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...sitting-out-season-until-kaepernick-reid-sign

What do y'all think of those?

 

[OkieHawk]

Here's why they say they started it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html

Yep, against police brutality. I thought this was already widely known...

Yes, but when I read his opinion I see something glaring. Instead of starting a foundation to improve inner city race relations, or bringing police officers into schools in a non-enforcement capacity ala D.A.R.E. they chose a path of disrespect.

The thing is, Kaep has done work with the inner city youth. He also has helped ex-cons get better jobs by donating nice suits for them to interview in. Some of the work he's done is here.

Note, I still think he's a mediocre QB, but you can't question his desire to help those less fortunate than him.