NFC West Drafting for Wilson

[rideaducati]

If the 49ers are drafting 3-4 DEs as a way to neutralize Wilson they're somehow in more trouble than anyone even thought.

That doesn't make a lick of sense.

The niner organization is quite good at making no sense.

 

[hawkfan68]

I would imagine the entire AFC East has been drafting for Brady for the last 15 years and where has that gotten them? I don't think that's a prudent strategy. You need to evaluate your own team and identify the weaknesses and areas of need and address those first before you start worrying about one individual player that you see twice a year. What about the other 14 games?

You pretty much summed up the Rams. Figured out how to stop the Seahawks but really no one else.

 

[NINEster]

If the 49ers are drafting 3-4 DEs as a way to neutralize Wilson they're somehow in more trouble than anyone even thought.

That doesn't make a lick of sense.

If Armstead and Buckner deliver as promised and Glenn Dorsey maintains from 2013, you create a wall for Wilson to have to navigate around. It may not be the same wall as RayMac, Justice, and Ian Williams at their peak but it's definitely formidable.

Next year you pair up someone good to with Aaron Lynch and Wilson will be under siege. Won't be easy to get unless the 49ers have another bad season, but if a Demarcus Ware type pops up in FA, they should go all in.

BTW, for the comment "doesn't make a lick of sense".....you first need to not have JJ Watt in the NFL, or Justin Smith as a recent retiree for it to have some level of merit. :2thumbs:

 

[NINEster]

Here's the thing, the rams beat the Hawks twice last year, the 2nd time the playoff seedings were basically set, which made the 2nd game meaningless to everyone BUT the rams, who afterwards promptly sat their asses down in front of a tv to watch the Hawks in the playoffs yet AGAIN.

That wouldn't be a valid excuse if the Seahawks beat the 49ers under similar circumstances during Harbaugh era, and excuses were made.....and you know it.

Or the fact that the Hawks had a lead at some point in every single game in the entire Wilson regime up to that second Rams game where they trailed the entire 60 minutes. Some of us have had to stomach that stat, along with the "never lost by more than 10 points with Wilson", etc.

So the super consistent Seahawks somehow someway slipped once.....or not.

 

[NINEster]

I can't help but laugh a little at the talk of drafting for Wilson.

4th ranked offense in the league without Marshawn. Defense took a step back. Holes have been filled, weapons are there on offense. Seattle will be fine. Wilson will be spectacular as usual.

Let's revisit in January.

 

[Marvin49]

I wouldn't say Armstead and Buckner were drafted for the express purpose of stopping Wilson, but I'm sure the fact that they are both 6'7" with long arms and Wilson is 5'11" didn't escape the 49ers attention.

49ers are trying to rebuild that dominant front 7 they had for so many years that worked against most of the NFL. It helps that 6'7" guys with long arms are hard to throw over, but Wilson moves his launch point so much I'm not sure it matters.

I will say this tho....on 3rd downs the Niners could be rushing Armstead 6'7", Buckner 6'7", Lynch 6'5", and Carradine 6'4" ALL with long arms. Baalke has always liked what he termed "long lever" athletes (Aldon had 35 inch arms).

Honestly though...I got no idea what to expect this year.

 

[Laloosh]

I can't help but laugh a little at the talk of drafting for Wilson.

4th ranked offense in the league without Marshawn. Defense took a step back. Holes have been filled, weapons are there on offense. Seattle will be fine. Wilson will be spectacular as usual.

Let's revisit in January.

Feel free to expand on how you think it'll go between now and then so we actually have a point of reference on your end.

 

[Sports Hernia]

If the 49ers are drafting 3-4 DEs as a way to neutralize Wilson they're somehow in more trouble than anyone even thought.

That doesn't make a lick of sense.

If Armstead and Buckner deliver as promised and Glenn Dorsey maintains from 2013, you create a wall for Wilson to have to navigate around. It may not be the same wall as RayMac, Justice, and Ian Williams at their peak but it's definitely formidable.

Next year you pair up someone good to with Aaron Lynch and Wilson will be under siege. Won't be easy to get unless the 49ers have another bad season, but if a Demarcus Ware type pops up in FA, they should go all in.

BTW, for the comment "doesn't make a lick of sense".....you first need to not have JJ Watt in the NFL, or Justin Smith as a recent retiree for it to have some level of merit. :2thumbs:

Lots of wishful thinking in above post.

.....but hey, it's your fantasy........

 

[NINEster]

I can't help but laugh a little at the talk of drafting for Wilson.

4th ranked offense in the league without Marshawn. Defense took a step back. Holes have been filled, weapons are there on offense. Seattle will be fine. Wilson will be spectacular as usual.

Let's revisit in January.

Feel free to expand on how you think it'll go between now and then so we actually have a point of reference on your end.

It's hard for me to criticize Wilson's 2015 regular season.

His 2015 postseason, different story.

It's always been like that for me since the beginning.

 

[NINEster]

If the 49ers are drafting 3-4 DEs as a way to neutralize Wilson they're somehow in more trouble than anyone even thought.

That doesn't make a lick of sense.

If Armstead and Buckner deliver as promised and Glenn Dorsey maintains from 2013, you create a wall for Wilson to have to navigate around. It may not be the same wall as RayMac, Justice, and Ian Williams at their peak but it's definitely formidable.

Next year you pair up someone good to with Aaron Lynch and Wilson will be under siege. Won't be easy to get unless the 49ers have another bad season, but if a Demarcus Ware type pops up in FA, they should go all in.

BTW, for the comment "doesn't make a lick of sense".....you first need to not have JJ Watt in the NFL, or Justin Smith as a recent retiree for it to have some level of merit. :2thumbs:

Lots of wishful thinking in above post.

.....but hey, it's your fantasy........

If the 49ers offense delivers on some level of respectability this year coupled with some improved run defense production, then you better believe these battles will be ON.

:irishdrinkers:

 

[Sports Hernia]

If the 49ers are drafting 3-4 DEs as a way to neutralize Wilson they're somehow in more trouble than anyone even thought.

That doesn't make a lick of sense.

If Armstead and Buckner deliver as promised and Glenn Dorsey maintains from 2013, you create a wall for Wilson to have to navigate around. It may not be the same wall as RayMac, Justice, and Ian Williams at their peak but it's definitely formidable.

Next year you pair up someone good to with Aaron Lynch and Wilson will be under siege. Won't be easy to get unless the 49ers have another bad season, but if a Demarcus Ware type pops up in FA, they should go all in.

BTW, for the comment "doesn't make a lick of sense".....you first need to not have JJ Watt in the NFL, or Justin Smith as a recent retiree for it to have some level of merit. :2thumbs:

Lots of wishful thinking in above post.

.....but hey, it's your fantasy........

If the 49ers offense delivers on some level of respectability this year coupled with some improved run defense production, then you better believe these battles will be ON.

:irishdrinkers:

The Chipsters fast paced offense will kill what little defense the niners had with quick 3 and outs. ......especially when you are light on talent. The only way fast paced offenses work in the NFL is if you have the talent to sustain drives on a consistent basis. This will be "my told you so" post I will be pointing out to after the Niner's 4 to 6 win season, for which I might be giving them too much credit on the win total.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

I can't help but laugh a little at the talk of drafting for Wilson.

4th ranked offense in the league without Marshawn. Defense took a step back. Holes have been filled, weapons are there on offense. Seattle will be fine. Wilson will be spectacular as usual.

Let's revisit in January.

Trust me, I make mental notes of the things you Frisco fans say here. Were you here for lvnginhwktwn's "they can smell the fear" statement? That one blew up in his face and I was the one that lit the fuse.

I admire that you have hope for your team, but be careful about knocking ours. It'll bite you in the end cuz it's a very good football organization.

 

[Popeyejones]

If the 49ers are drafting 3-4 DEs as a way to neutralize Wilson they're somehow in more trouble than anyone even thought.

That doesn't make a lick of sense.

If Armstead and Buckner deliver as promised and Glenn Dorsey maintains from 2013, you create a wall for Wilson to have to navigate around.

Glen Dorsey? :lol:

As for "creating a wall for Wilson to have to navigate around," it just doesn't make any sense. One of the several reasons the Hawks went to more 3 step drops last year* is (again, there was several) that Wilson still hasn't developed to the level they'd likely like in manipulating the pocket. Rather than having him just hang out at the top of it and back and break contain all the time they built in more quick routes to force him to get the ball out.

If you want to stop Wilson Armstead and Buckner don't help very much because he's mostly playing out of shotgun and isn't stepping up into the pocket much anyway.

If they were drafting to stop Wilson they'd be looking for edge guys who can get to the QB while also maintaining contain (something Aldon Smith had nicely developed into, oddly, despite all his problems). Drafting two 3-4 DEs/4-2/4-1 (with Tartt) DTs doesn't really do anything for stopping Wilson. Instead, it's an effort in improving the run defense (get better up front to make up for the talent loss at LB) and creating interior pressure on passing downs (which probably matters less against the Seahawks than it matters for any other team in the league, given Wilson's style of play and what the Hawks have him doing).

The Hawks know their line sucks, and they know that manipulating the pocket still isn't (and may never be) an area in which Wilson excels. As a result they've developed an offense that basically just cedes the pocket, making interior pressure (save for nearly instaneous interior pressure a la Aaron Donald) , in most cases, beside the point.

*Edit: "3 steps drops" meaning route combos, not actually "3 steps" as Wilson is rarely playing under center.

 

[Popeyejones]

I will say this tho....on 3rd downs the Niners could be rushing Armstead 6'7", Buckner 6'7", Lynch 6'5", and Carradine 6'4" ALL with long arms. Baalke has always liked what he termed "long lever" athletes (Aldon had 35 inch arms).

Honestly though...I got no idea what to expect this year.

What you should expect is throwing stuff at your TV as O'Neil tries to get a free ride on blitzes up the middle while Lynch and Carradine drop into ineffective coverage that gets diced up on quick hitters. It will be this year's version of Mangenius' "sneaky" 3 man rush soft zone that gave up a first down on so many 3rd and medium/long downs across the first half of last season.

I'm not saying this to pile onto the 9ers, but seriously, enter the season with your expectations as that and be pleasantly surprised when anything that isn't that occasionally happens.

 

[Largent80]

Right now the Hawks don't know squat about the line because of all the new faces. I think it would be prudent to say there will obviously be growing pains, but it would be hard pressed to suck more than last years line.

 

[Popeyejones]

It's hard for me to criticize Wilson's 2015 regular season.

His 2015 postseason, different story.

It's always been like that for me since the beginning.

The first half of his 2015 regular season is easy enough to criticize. Heck, Hawks fans here were grumbling about it.

His back half was one of the most effective strings of QB play we've probably ever seen, and a lot of boats (i.e. Baldwin's boat, Locket's boat) rised with that tide.

I keep on getting slammed for it in the other forum, but I think a good expectation next year for him is somewhere in between his first half of the season and second half of the season.

 

[NINEster]

I will say this tho....on 3rd downs the Niners could be rushing Armstead 6'7", Buckner 6'7", Lynch 6'5", and Carradine 6'4" ALL with long arms. Baalke has always liked what he termed "long lever" athletes (Aldon had 35 inch arms).

Honestly though...I got no idea what to expect this year.

What you should expect is throwing stuff at your TV as O'Neil tries to get a free ride on blitzes up the middle while Lynch and Carradine drop into ineffective coverage that gets diced up on quick hitters. It will be this year's version of Mangenius' "sneaky" 3 man rush soft zone that gave up a first down on so many 3rd and medium/long downs across the first half of last season.

I'm not saying this to pile onto the 9ers, but seriously, enter the season with your expectations as that and be pleasantly surprised when anything that isn't that occasionally happens.

Were you shocked the 49ers made the Super Bowl in 2012?

You probably thought 2011 was a fluke like the rest of the league and figured Seattle was a better team that year. :mrgreen:

The way the defense played in 2014 was rather underrated leaguewide, and half of it was played without Aldon Smith, Patrick Willis, Chris Borland....no Bowman......people think all of these guys were unavailable AFTER 2014, when in reality they were also nowhere during the 2014 season....

It looked nasty for a few weeks here and there with a good grouping of guys but we never had a bad D that year until the very end playing San Diego. The last Harbaugh game in Seattle.....what names were playing on that defense that aren't here now? Aldon, Justin Smith, and Borland for a half. There was no Bowman or Willis in that game.

I couldn't name the starting 11 in the final weeks of that season.

Seattle won that game primarily because the 49er offense couldn't do much, but to act like they pushed the SF D around would be ludicrous.

Call me Mr. Glass Half Full, Homer, whatever.....but you can't say we had a stacked roster that year and at the same time say it was a s*** defense too.

A team has one bad year and suddenly they're the perennial Jaguars, Browns, etc.

The 2014 8-8 49ers would probably be ranked dead last of all time 8-8 team power rankings based on media perception. The 2015 49ers would be power ranked lower than the 2008 Lions I'm sure as well.

 

[NINEster]

I can't help but laugh a little at the talk of drafting for Wilson.

4th ranked offense in the league without Marshawn. Defense took a step back. Holes have been filled, weapons are there on offense. Seattle will be fine. Wilson will be spectacular as usual.

Let's revisit in January.

Trust me, I make mental notes of the things you Frisco fans say here. Were you here for lvnginhwktwn's "they can smell the fear" statement? That one blew up in his face and I was the one that lit the fuse.

I admire that you have hope for your team, but be careful about knocking ours. It'll bite you in the end cuz it's a very good football organization.

Look, there is plenty of respect here.

But the word "spectacular" apparently has different meaning around here than what I'm used to. Hence why I bolded it in my original reply.

 

[Laloosh]

I think "plenty" is subjective.

 

[Sports Hernia]

I will say this tho....on 3rd downs the Niners could be rushing Armstead 6'7", Buckner 6'7", Lynch 6'5", and Carradine 6'4" ALL with long arms. Baalke has always liked what he termed "long lever" athletes (Aldon had 35 inch arms).

Honestly though...I got no idea what to expect this year.

What you should expect is throwing stuff at your TV as O'Neil tries to get a free ride on blitzes up the middle while Lynch and Carradine drop into ineffective coverage that gets diced up on quick hitters. It will be this year's version of Mangenius' "sneaky" 3 man rush soft zone that gave up a first down on so many 3rd and medium/long downs across the first half of last season.

I'm not saying this to pile onto the 9ers, but seriously, enter the season with your expectations as that and be pleasantly surprised when anything that isn't that occasionally happens.

Were you shocked the 49ers made the Super Bowl in 2012?

You probably thought 2011 was a fluke like the rest of the league and figured Seattle was a better team that year. :mrgreen:

The way the defense played in 2014 was rather underrated leaguewide, and half of it was played without Aldon Smith, Patrick Willis, Chris Borland....no Bowman......people think all of these guys were unavailable AFTER 2014, when in reality they were also nowhere during the 2014 season....

It looked nasty for a few weeks here and there with a good grouping of guys but we never had a bad D that year until the very end playing San Diego. The last Harbaugh game in Seattle.....what names were playing on that defense that aren't here now? Aldon, Justin Smith, and Borland for a half. There was no Bowman or Willis in that game.

I couldn't name the starting 11 in the final weeks of that season.

Seattle won that game primarily because the 49er offense couldn't do much, but to act like they pushed the SF D around would be ludicrous.

Call me Mr. Glass Half Full, Homer, whatever.....but you can't say we had a stacked roster that year and at the same time say it was a s*** defense too.

A team has one bad year and suddenly they're the perennial Jaguars, Browns, etc.

The 2014 8-8 49ers would probably be ranked dead last of all time 8-8 team power rankings based on media perception. The 2015 49ers would be power ranked lower than the 2008 Lions I'm sure as well.

:snack: