volsunghawk":qfwyagsg said:
hawksfansinceday1":qfwyagsg said:
Seahawks1983":qfwyagsg said:
I don't think people hate Manning as much as they hate the excessive coverage he gets from the media.
This
Thing is, though, Manning has EARNED that level of coverage. It's not like he's Tebow or Manziel (or back further, Reggie Bush and Michael Vick), who were also ridiculously hyped by the media and constantly shoved down everyone's throats. Manning's going to be on the very short list of greatest NFL player of all time debate due to his continued excellence over his career. If he had the same level of success in the postseason that he's had in the regular season during his career, the debate over GOAT NFL QB would be done.
Not really.
Those of us who watched Montana win 4 rings in an NFL that allowed defenses to mug guys would argue that. Even if Peyton was perfect in the Superbowl, he'd still only have three while enjoying protection from the refs that simply didn't exist in the 1980s.
Joe Montana was the definition of clutch. I'm no Whiners fan but any list that puts Manning over Montana would be laughable to me. Manning has just never played at that level. He's never been a clutch guy. His success has always come from building big early leads and playing from that advantage. When he gets behind, he chokes. He choked in his only Superbowl win, throwing a critical late pick that Rex Grossman gave right back to the Colts. That Bears offense was the biggest joke I've ever seen in a Superbowl (outside of the 1980s Broncos) and Manning still struggled mightily and almost lost the game. Joe Cool would just come out and keep doing his thing, methodically wearing down defenses and turning the smallest opportunities into game winning drives. His worst playoff games were better than Manning's best.
It's also absurd to put Manning over Brady. Brady is 20x the qb that Manning has ever been. What he did last season with that rag-tag motley crew of nobodies on offense was far more impressive than the Broncos chucking it every down against vastly inferior defenses, while also having 3 quality starters at RB to keep defenses honest. Brady was dealing with the loss of every impact starter on their offense - both TEs, half their offensive line, and a bunch of no name rookies at receiver with no running game to help out. It's amazing what he did with that team. I'm not sure Montana, Young, Aikman or any of the greats could have done that. Manning would have choked and blamed it on the offensive line.
I'm also with whoever mentioned Otto Graham. Never saw him play live, but did watch a compilation of his championship wins once and came away really impressed. He was just on another level than everyone else. A man playing against boys. Also more rings than anyone and he really did carry his teams.
Never understood the Johnny U thing and just chalked that up to nostalgia. Yeah yeah, I know he was the first modern qb prototype. But look at the career stats - almost 1:1 on TD:INTs, 78 passer rating, 54% pass completion. That wouldn't be good enough to start on a modern Superbowl team. And he had the advantage of surprise, since most teams just ran the ball and pass defense was nothing like today. You put a guy like Brady in the 50s and that would have been hilarious. Even a slow awkward Brady could have scrambled for a handful of TDs per season.
Anyway, GOAT is always a fun chat. Don't see Manning in that group though. I wouldn't even rank him with Aikman, who doesn't get enough credit nowadays for some weird reason.