No PI at end of NE / Car game??

[JGfromtheNW]

PI is arguable, but it was at least pretty blatant defensive holding (Kuchely was all over Gronk).

Agree with this.

 

[jawilljr]

Remember this final play against the Saints?

Definite Offensive holding. That play made the Patriots win.

 

[Coug_Hawk08]

Remember this final play against the Saints?

Definite Offensive holding. That play made the Patriots win.

What does another game have to do with this one?

It's just another example of terrible refereeing. It's disgusting.

 

[jkitsune]

Remember this final play against the Saints?

Definite Offensive holding. That play made the Patriots win.

You know what would make that play a lot worse? If the refs threw a flag for holding on the LT, then picked up the flag because there could be no holding because the play resulted in a touchdown.

 

[Polaris]

Guys,

The flag should not have been thrown at all. This is IMHO the real reason why the head referee waived off the flag.

Why?

This was a Hail Mary situation.

There is a strong tradition in the NFL going back decades that you do not throw PI flags either for offense or defense on a Hail Mary.

 

[JGfromtheNW]

Guys,

The flag should not have been thrown at all. This is IMHO the real reason why the head referee waived off the flag.

Why?

This was a Hail Mary situation.

There is a strong tradition in the NFL going back decades that you do not throw PI flags either for offense or defense on a Hail Mary.

The unwritten rule!

 

[HawkFan72]

Guys,

The flag should not have been thrown at all. This is IMHO the real reason why the head referee waived off the flag.

Why?

This was a Hail Mary situation.

There is a strong tradition in the NFL going back decades that you do not throw PI flags either for offense or defense on a Hail Mary.

Offensive pass interference, yes. I didn't think that applied to defensive pass interference. I've seen Defensive pass interference called a few times in that situation.

 

[rsm650]

If it was us and not the Pats, I'd be fuming. Offensive PIs and lots of pushing and shoving are okay and expected in Hail Mary situations. However Gronk was clearly held in the picture. Look at both those arms - he's practically hugging him.

Nonetheless, the Pats' history of calls going their way finally caught up to them...

 

[nanomoz]

If Gronk had made a visible effort to fight his way back to the ball, would it have been PI?

 

[Polaris]

Guys,

The flag should not have been thrown at all. This is IMHO the real reason why the head referee waived off the flag.

Why?

This was a Hail Mary situation.

There is a strong tradition in the NFL going back decades that you do not throw PI flags either for offense or defense on a Hail Mary.

Offensive pass interference, yes. I didn't think that applied to defensive pass interference. I've seen Defensive pass interference called a few times in that situation.

Since when? After the Green Bay game last year, I think it was John Clayton that looked it up and IIRC DPI was called all of two times in the past 2-3 DECADES (and never OPI).

The flag should NOT have been thrown by long standing tradition and the head ref looked for a plausible reason to pocket the flag and found it. I guarantee you that he will REAM out the back judge in private. IMHO the Backjudge tried to save the game for Prince Brady.

 

[therealjohncarlson]

If Gronk had made a visible effort to fight his way back to the ball, would it have been PI?

IDK I dont really see how thats relevant though

 

[MontanaHawk05]

If they should have thrown the flag, then I believe they also should have thrown one on Tate right before the Fail Mary for the same reason. But they didn't, for the same reason.

 

[jawilljr]

Remember this final play against the Saints?

Definite Offensive holding. That play made the Patriots win.

What does another game have to do with this one?

It's just another example of terrible refereeing. It's disgusting.

That was my point...Brady is 1-1 with refs...Terrible referring.

 

[Polaris]

If it was us and not the Pats, I'd be fuming. Offensive PIs and lots of pushing and shoving are okay and expected in Hail Mary situations. However Gronk was clearly held in the picture. Look at both those arms - he's practically hugging him.

Nonetheless, the Pats' history of calls going their way finally caught up to them...

It did happen to us. Going by exactly the same logic, Green Bay should have been awarded the game because Golden Tate clearly committed an OPI (as the league office confirmed). Why wasn't the flag called. Because the NFL officiating office that trained the replacement refs specifically instructed them NOT to call this kind of penalty in a hail mary situation. This has not changed in a season....except apparently for Prince Brady.

 

[Sports Hernia]

At least for once it didn't involve us so just enjoy the fact someone deserving finally got screwed.

Rog is gonna be SO pissed when he finds out one of "the favorite teams" got screwed. He might have to "deploy" Mike Carey and crew to officiate all future patriot games to make sure a travesty like this doesn't befall the patriots ever again!

 

[Barakas]

If they should have thrown the flag, then I believe they also should have thrown one on Tate right before the Fail Mary for the same reason. But they didn't, for the same reason.

You know, I understand the thinking in a Hail Mary situation where you are throwing a 40+ yard pass and you have an entire gaggle of players huddled all together in a scrum. This was a final play of the game but it was a very reasonable field position that you would expect any QB or team to reliably have multiple plays that end up with a pass being caught in the end zone for a TD.

With that said, it's easier to rationalize this flag being picked up due to a "hail mary" unofficial rule than the stupid BS that the ESPN guy came up with saying that Gronk could not have made an attempt at the play b/c it was short.

 

[HawkFan72]

If they should have thrown the flag, then I believe they also should have thrown one on Tate right before the Fail Mary for the same reason. But they didn't, for the same reason.

I don't think anyone can really argue that Tate didn't deserve a flag. He did, and we only spout the "tradition of no flag on a Hail Mary" because we benefitted from it.

But the one difference I see in this play was that people are shoving and fighting for position to get to the ball most of the time, like Tate was, and he pushed a guy to get to the ball.

Kuechly was not even trying to make a play on the ball. He just wraps up Gronk and carries him out of the play. He wrapped his arms around him, with his back to the play, and escorted him out. His one goal was to prevent Gronk from getting to the ball, which is the very definition of interference.

They both were penalties, but I don't think they were in the same league.

 

[Coug_Hawk08]

Didn't this happen just last week in the lions/bears game? Pi on last play of the game gave them an additional 2 point attempt to try and win. Also thought it was called in another game recently. . .

It can and should be called if it was in fact a penalty. It should always be black and white. That's why they wear the colors. We don't want anything grey in there. It's getting silly.

 

[rsm650]

At least for once it didn't involve us so just enjoy the fact someone deserving finally got screwed.

Rog is gonna be SO pissed when he finds out one of "the favorite teams" got screwed. He might have to "deploy" Mike Carey and crew to officiate all future patriot games to make sure a travesty like this doesn't befall the patriots ever again!

The 3 teams we must not play in the SB or else we are screwed like in XL: Broncos, Pats, Colts unno: (okay, we probably will have to play one of them...)

 

[Polaris]

Didn't this happen just last week in the lions/bears game? Pi on last play of the game gave them an additional 2 point attempt to try and win. Also thought it was called in another game recently. . .

It can and should be called if it was in fact a penalty. It should always be black and white. That's why they wear the colors. We don't want anything grey in there. It's getting silly.

Not the same situation. In the case you are talking about, it was an untimed down anyway. In the case tonight (or a standard hail mary), it was "touchdown pass in the endzone or lose" with only one play possible from scrimmage. It's this set of conditions that makes it a "hail mary".