Odds on Bevell to the Titans?

[DavidSeven]

Whiz will land on his feet eventually coordinating for an experienced QB with experienced receivers.

Bevell and Pete have maximized the talent that Russ has brought to the table. In some ways, Russell Wilson is the most conventionally limited QB in the entire NFL. That is most likely due to his height. It amazes me that people are still deluding themselves into thinking this isn't true.

That isn't to say Russ doesn't have game-breaking talent, because he does. But Bevell and Pete, thus far, have harnessed that into something good in spite of some otherwise crippling limitations.

If Bevell can translate those lessons to Mariota (who arguably may have even more upside), then Tennessee may be onto something special. This is not to say Bevell is an offensive guru BUT THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY DON'T NEED. They need a guy who understands the balance between scheme and letting young players play freely. He has all the experience that is helpful to Tennessee.

This is an outside-the-box hire that could work for them. IMO, this would be a more intriguing hire than some coordinator who's being carried by a legendary QB or legendary HC. Those guys constantly fail to work with young talent because that's not their experience.

 

[AVL]

Whiz will land on his feet eventually coordinating for an experienced QB with experienced receivers.

Bevell and Pete have maximized the talent that Russ has brought to the table. In some ways, Russell Wilson is the most conventionally limited QB in the entire NFL. That is most likely due to his height. It amazes me that people are still deluding themselves into thinking this isn't true.

That isn't to say Russ doesn't have game-breaking talent, because he does. But Bevell and Pete, thus far, have harnessed that into something good in spite of some otherwise crippling limitations.

If Bevell can translate those lessons to Mariota (who arguably may have even more upside), then Tennessee may be onto something special. This is not to say Bevell is an offensive guru BUT THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY DON'T NEED. They need a guy who understands the balance between scheme and letting young players play freely. He has all the experience that is helpful to Tennessee.

This is an outside-the-box hire that could work for them. IMO, this would be a more intriguing hire than some coordinator who's being carried by a legendary QB or legendary HC. Those guys constantly fail to work with young talent because that's not their experience.

Pure comedy, poor Wilson would be nothing without these offensive geniuses. Nice.

 

[DavidSeven]

Whiz will land on his feet eventually coordinating for an experienced QB with experienced receivers.

Bevell and Pete have maximized the talent that Russ has brought to the table. In some ways, Russell Wilson is the most conventionally limited QB in the entire NFL. That is most likely due to his height. It amazes me that people are still deluding themselves into thinking this isn't true.

That isn't to say Russ doesn't have game-breaking talent, because he does. But Bevell and Pete, thus far, have harnessed that into something good in spite of some otherwise crippling limitations.

If Bevell can translate those lessons to Mariota (who arguably may have even more upside), then Tennessee may be onto something special. This is not to say Bevell is an offensive guru BUT THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY DON'T NEED. They need a guy who understands the balance between scheme and letting young players play freely. He has all the experience that is helpful to Tennessee.

This is an outside-the-box hire that could work for them. IMO, this would be a more intriguing hire than some coordinator who's being carried by a legendary QB or legendary HC. Those guys constantly fail to work with young talent because that's not their experience.

Pure comedy, poor Wilson would be nothing without these offensive geniuses. Nice.

Mis-characterization of my post. Wilson has NFL talent and would be a good player anywhere. Do I think the approach in Seattle has maximized his talent and helped him become a franchise QB in spite of some obvious limitations? Yes, yes I do.

One of the primary things separating Russ from a lot of other young, and perhaps more talented, QBs who came out since 2011 is the coaching. I really believe that. I think we would have found a way for Kap, RG3, and even Andrew Luck to be more successful than they have been on their current teams.

Just my opinion.

 

[Threedee]

I'M IN!

 

[MontanaHawk05]

One of the primary things separating Russ from a lot of other young, and perhaps more talented, QBs who came out since 2011 is the coaching. I really believe that. I think we would have found a way for Kap, RG3, and even Andrew Luck to be more successful than they have been on their current teams.

Just my opinion.

Wilson came into the league with most of his redeeming habits already present. He already knew when to slide and be content with a first down, and knew to slide feetfirst to avoid shots to the head. He already had the habit of keeping his eyes upfield when he scrambled. His mechanics were solid, his throwing on the run came from baseball, and he was built like a muscle hamster to help make him more durable than other scrambling QBs.

I would have to argue the opposite from you. I've seen disappointingly little development from Russell Wilson as a pure thrower. He's nowhere close to being a full-field reader; he's missing a lot of good matchups; he's struggling with blitzes; and this despite a primitive passing offense.

You could argue that a simplistic offense was better for a team with a lower talent threshold, and I acknowledge that any coordinator is limited by the talent at his fingertips (Bevell has very little in the WR corps).

But even then, you'd have a hard time convincing me that this team would be 53-27 with Tarvaris Jackson right now. You'd have to be able to give me a good explanation of Bevell's resume so far - stuff like play action on 4th and 14, deep sideline bombs to small receivers on 3rd and long, too often forgetting the presence of the best RB in the league - the little dozen boneheaded, inscrutable calls that happen every game. You'd also need to avoid both the "execution" argument, because bad scheme does make execution harder, and the "we're the fans and he's the coach" argument, because that went out the door with Greg Knapp. There are OC's in the NFL who are in over their head.

When there's a building narrative of players ignoring playcalls that stretches all the way back to the playcaller's last team, and an X-factor in the best QB in the business at salvaging broken plays, and a defense that consistently keeps the scoring bar remedially low, you really do need to convince me that Bevell is the reason for this team's not sucking. I personally don't think we're better than 7-9 without the natural-born improvisation of Russell Wilson. Hell, I think you take away one deep reception to Doug Baldwin from each SB year and we don't even make the big game. It was that close in each year.

And Bevell is going to need better than "not the primary problem" and "can occasionally call a good game" on his resume if he wants Tennessee to hire him. Unless they're really desperate, which I hope they are.

 

[OkieHawk]

One of the primary things separating Russ from a lot of other young, and perhaps more talented, QBs who came out since 2011 is the coaching. I really believe that. I think we would have found a way for Kap, RG3, and even Andrew Luck to be more successful than they have been on their current teams.

Just my opinion.

Wilson came into the league with most of his redeeming habits already present. He already knew when to slide and be content with a first down, and knew to slide feetfirst to avoid shots to the head. He already had the habit of keeping his eyes upfield when he scrambled. His mechanics were solid, his throwing on the run came from baseball, and he was built like a muscle hamster to help make him more durable than other scrambling QBs.

I would have to argue the opposite from you. I've seen disappointingly little development from Russell Wilson as a pure thrower. He's nowhere close to being a full-field reader; he's missing a lot of good matchups; he's struggling with blitzes; and this despite a primitive passing offense.

You could argue that a simplistic offense was better for a team with a lower talent threshold, and I acknowledge that any coordinator is limited by the talent at his fingertips (Bevell has very little in the WR corps).

But even then, you'd have a hard time convincing me that this team would be 53-27 with Tarvaris Jackson right now. You'd have to be able to give me a good explanation of Bevell's resume so far - stuff like play action on 4th and 14, deep sideline bombs to small receivers on 3rd and long, too often forgetting the presence of the best RB in the league - the little dozen boneheaded, inscrutable calls that happen every game. You'd also need to avoid both the "execution" argument, because bad scheme does make execution harder, and the "we're the fans and he's the coach" argument, because that went out the door with Greg Knapp. There are OC's in the NFL who are in over their head.

When there's a building narrative of players ignoring playcalls that stretches all the way back to the playcaller's last team, and an X-factor in the best QB in the business at salvaging broken plays, and a defense that consistently keeps the scoring bar remedially low, you really do need to convince me that Bevell is the reason for this team's not sucking. I personally don't think we're better than 7-9 without the natural-born improvisation of Russell Wilson. Hell, I think you take away one deep reception to Doug Baldwin from each SB year and we don't even make the big game. It was that close in each year.

And Bevell is going to need better than "not the primary problem" and "can occasionally call a good game" on his resume if he wants Tennessee to hire him. Unless they're really desperate, which I hope they are.

That was beautiful man. :thirishdrinkers:

 

[mrt144]

Agree almost 100% but I would add that the real letdown is knowing that basically Bevell and any OC's talent for that matter really is influenced by talent gaps positionally. We're seeing just how much impact the gaps at OL and WR are having on the efficiency and conversion rates. The question is, would someone else be capable of using the current talent in better ways and I hate that there's no way to see. I absolutely believe that sometimes having a fresh perspective can lead to rapid gains in productivity but it's a crap shoot - you gotta luck out on finding the person who can do that (It's interesting how there's a dynamic like this in college football at least, I think mostly of Ohio State and their two most recent titles.)

Bevell needs to go to offensive coordinator camp and get a fresh perspective.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

One of the primary things separating Russ from a lot of other young, and perhaps more talented, QBs who came out since 2011 is the coaching. I really believe that. I think we would have found a way for Kap, RG3, and even Andrew Luck to be more successful than they have been on their current teams.

Just my opinion.

Wilson came into the league with most of his redeeming habits already present. He already knew when to slide and be content with a first down, and knew to slide feetfirst to avoid shots to the head. He already had the habit of keeping his eyes upfield when he scrambled. His mechanics were solid, his throwing on the run came from baseball, and he was built like a muscle hamster to help make him more durable than other scrambling QBs.

I would have to argue the opposite from you. I've seen disappointingly little development from Russell Wilson as a pure thrower. He's nowhere close to being a full-field reader; he's missing a lot of good matchups; he's struggling with blitzes; and this despite a primitive passing offense.

You could argue that a simplistic offense was better for a team with a lower talent threshold, and I acknowledge that any coordinator is limited by the talent at his fingertips (Bevell has very little in the WR corps).

But even then, you'd have a hard time convincing me that this team would be 53-27 with Tarvaris Jackson right now. You'd have to be able to give me a good explanation of Bevell's resume so far - stuff like play action on 4th and 14, deep sideline bombs to small receivers on 3rd and long, too often forgetting the presence of the best RB in the league - the little dozen boneheaded, inscrutable calls that happen every game. You'd also need to avoid both the "execution" argument, because bad scheme does make execution harder, and the "we're the fans and he's the coach" argument, because that went out the door with Greg Knapp. There are OC's in the NFL who are in over their head.

When there's a building narrative of players ignoring playcalls that stretches all the way back to the playcaller's last team, and an X-factor in the best QB in the business at salvaging broken plays, and a defense that consistently keeps the scoring bar remedially low, you really do need to convince me that Bevell is the reason for this team's not sucking. I personally don't think we're better than 7-9 without the natural-born improvisation of Russell Wilson. Hell, I think you take away one deep reception to Doug Baldwin from each SB year and we don't even make the big game. It was that close in each year.

And Bevell is going to need better than "not the primary problem" and "can occasionally call a good game" on his resume if he wants Tennessee to hire him. Unless they're really desperate, which I hope they are.

That was beautiful man. :thirishdrinkers:

:13:

 

[Siouxhawk]

There's not a doubt in my mind that Bevell took a dynamic talent like Russ and helped him reach his potential those first three years by straddling the line between letting him freelance and keeping him grounded within the prescribed formula on winning the turnover battle that Pete adheres to. What a delicate balance that must be.
This year, I think the team is making a transition to Russ calling pass protection and staying secure in the pocket so as to prolong his health. It hasn't come without growing pains, made all the more difficult by an offensive line that was pretty much a sieve the first 5 or 6 games. But all class/filmroom training, practicing and game reps are starting to take hold and Russell is going to be an even bigger threat heretofore.
Bev has been the touchstone of education and maturation for Russell and the results have been spectacular.

 

[chris98251]

There's not a doubt in my mind that Bevell took a dynamic talent like Russ and helped him reach his potential those first three years by straddling the line between letting him freelance and keeping him grounded within the prescribed formula on winning the turnover battle that Pete adheres to. What a delicate balance that must be.
This year, I think the team is making a transition to Russ calling pass protection and staying secure in the pocket so as to prolong his health. It hasn't come without growing pains, made all the more difficult by an offensive line that was pretty much a sieve the first 5 or 6 games. But all class/filmroom training, practicing and game reps are starting to take hold and Russell is going to be an even bigger threat heretofore.
Bev has been the touchstone of education and maturation for Russell and the results have been spectacular.

If this is spectacular then what is bad?

 

[Siouxhawk]

There's not a doubt in my mind that Bevell took a dynamic talent like Russ and helped him reach his potential those first three years by straddling the line between letting him freelance and keeping him grounded within the prescribed formula on winning the turnover battle that Pete adheres to. What a delicate balance that must be.
This year, I think the team is making a transition to Russ calling pass protection and staying secure in the pocket so as to prolong his health. It hasn't come without growing pains, made all the more difficult by an offensive line that was pretty much a sieve the first 5 or 6 games. But all class/filmroom training, practicing and game reps are starting to take hold and Russell is going to be an even bigger threat heretofore.
Bev has been the touchstone of education and maturation for Russell and the results have been spectacular.

If this is spectacular then what is bad?

Two Super Bowl appearances in a row and another on the way. Yeah, that's spectacular.
And by the way, that's a dumb stat to hang anyone's hat on. Take our last game. So we kick the field goal that practically ensures the win and we get an O-fer on the chart? Good example where stats don't mean squat.

 

[Missing_Clink]

0% chance. Not happening. He's not respected around the league. He just lucked into Marshawn and everyone knows that once Beast is done Bevs won't have a clue what to do.

 

[DavidSeven]

One of the primary things separating Russ from a lot of other young, and perhaps more talented, QBs who came out since 2011 is the coaching. I really believe that. I think we would have found a way for Kap, RG3, and even Andrew Luck to be more successful than they have been on their current teams.

Just my opinion.

Wilson came into the league with most of his redeeming habits already present. He already knew when to slide and be content with a first down, and knew to slide feetfirst to avoid shots to the head. He already had the habit of keeping his eyes upfield when he scrambled. His mechanics were solid, his throwing on the run came from baseball, and he was built like a muscle hamster to help make him more durable than other scrambling QBs.

I would have to argue the opposite from you. I've seen disappointingly little development from Russell Wilson as a pure thrower. He's nowhere close to being a full-field reader; he's missing a lot of good matchups; he's struggling with blitzes; and this despite a primitive passing offense.

You could argue that a simplistic offense was better for a team with a lower talent threshold, and I acknowledge that any coordinator is limited by the talent at his fingertips (Bevell has very little in the WR corps).

But even then, you'd have a hard time convincing me that this team would be 53-27 with Tarvaris Jackson right now. You'd have to be able to give me a good explanation of Bevell's resume so far - stuff like play action on 4th and 14, deep sideline bombs to small receivers on 3rd and long, too often forgetting the presence of the best RB in the league - the little dozen boneheaded, inscrutable calls that happen every game. You'd also need to avoid both the "execution" argument, because bad scheme does make execution harder, and the "we're the fans and he's the coach" argument, because that went out the door with Greg Knapp. There are OC's in the NFL who are in over their head.

When there's a building narrative of players ignoring playcalls that stretches all the way back to the playcaller's last team, and an X-factor in the best QB in the business at salvaging broken plays, and a defense that consistently keeps the scoring bar remedially low, you really do need to convince me that Bevell is the reason for this team's not sucking. I personally don't think we're better than 7-9 without the natural-born improvisation of Russell Wilson. Hell, I think you take away one deep reception to Doug Baldwin from each SB year and we don't even make the big game. It was that close in each year.

And Bevell is going to need better than "not the primary problem" and "can occasionally call a good game" on his resume if he wants Tennessee to hire him. Unless they're really desperate, which I hope they are.

Favre speaks highly of Bevell to this day, and they are good friends. He was just at the VMAC an offseason or two ago visiting him and said on KJR that the Seahawks would have the most unstoppable offense in the NFL if Sidney and Percy were healthy together (which they never were). This story you try to paint of an ongoing discord between Bevell and Favre is a false one. In fact, the rumor has always been that if Bevell were to ever get an HC job, Favre would join him as either a QB coach or OC. Bevell has stated many times that the offense that Seattle runs is basically the same one that Favre ran in Minnesota (going as far to say that Brett could come out of retirement and run the Seattle offense if he wanted to). The differences are accounted for in what the respective QBs (Favre and Wilson) are actually able to execute.

As far as these plays you bring up, this goes back to the point I've raised over and over. There's no way you know the sideline fade to Baldwin was a Bevell call or something Russell saw pre-snap or along his profession. How could you know that? If you don't know, why do you automatically assume the OC is at fault? You auto-blamed Bevell for that pass before knowing what actually went into the play. Why? What is behind this need to blame a single individual for a play that involves multiple components and inputs?

Run/pass ratios are, more often than not, a function of success on 3rd down (longer drives = more runs). Too often, Bevell has taken the heat for Russell's poor play on 3rd down which has robbed us of adequate opportunities to rush. 3rd down effectiveness is where QBs earn their money. It is a QB stat as much as anything else. No one on this staff goes into any game thinking Marshawn will carry it 10 times or less. In EVERY such instance of that, I can point you to Russell having a TERRIBLE day on 3rd down. Every. Single. Time.

Does Bevell make mistakes? Sure, every OC does. I have never once contended he was the best and brightest. However, what he has been, is successful by metric that Pete Carroll hammers on week after week. Look up the stats. Every metric that Pete uses to define offensive success has been met, and we've been to two straight Super Bowls. If Bevell is given reasonable OL talent and there is an elongated period of utter stagnation thereafter, then I think it will be worth talking about what's happening in coaching. But the picture you paint of an only "occasionally" successful OC is an incorrect one. The numbers from 2012-2014 do not show that. They show a team that's fielded one of the best and most efficient offenses in the NFL over that stretch.

 

[OkieHawk]

Two Super Bowl appearances in a row and another on the way. Yeah, that's spectacular.
And by the way, that's a dumb stat to hang anyone's hat on. Take our last game. So we kick the field goal that practically ensures the win and we get an O-fer on the chart? Good example where stats don't mean squat.

You are completely unwilling to listen. Our red zone offense is horrific, our 3rd down conversion rate is average at best, and our route trees are something my granddaughter could draw up, and she's three.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Two Super Bowl appearances in a row and another on the way. Yeah, that's spectacular.
And by the way, that's a dumb stat to hang anyone's hat on. Take our last game. So we kick the field goal that practically ensures the win and we get an O-fer on the chart? Good example where stats don't mean squat.

You are completely unwilling to listen. Our red zone offense is horrific, our 3rd down conversion rate is average at best, and our route trees are something my granddaughter could draw up, and she's three.

Read DavidSeven's post above and glean a little knowledge as he is accurate on all accounts.

 

[OkieHawk]

Two Super Bowl appearances in a row and another on the way. Yeah, that's spectacular.
And by the way, that's a dumb stat to hang anyone's hat on. Take our last game. So we kick the field goal that practically ensures the win and we get an O-fer on the chart? Good example where stats don't mean squat.

You are completely unwilling to listen. Our red zone offense is horrific, our 3rd down conversion rate is average at best, and our route trees are something my granddaughter could draw up, and she's three.

Read DavidSeven's post above and glean a little knowledge as he is accurate on all accounts.

Of course you'd say that. I mean the actual drop in production over the years isn't an indicator at all, right? Is it all on Bevell, of course not. But he also isn't the OC god you make him out to be either.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Two Super Bowl appearances in a row and another on the way. Yeah, that's spectacular.
And by the way, that's a dumb stat to hang anyone's hat on. Take our last game. So we kick the field goal that practically ensures the win and we get an O-fer on the chart? Good example where stats don't mean squat.

You are completely unwilling to listen. Our red zone offense is horrific, our 3rd down conversion rate is average at best, and our route trees are something my granddaughter could draw up, and she's three.

Read DavidSeven's post above and glean a little knowledge as he is accurate on all accounts.

Of course you'd say that. I mean the actual drop in production over the years isn't an indicator at all, right? Is it all on Bevell, of course not. But he also isn't the OC god you make him out to be either.

I really don't make him out to be an "OC god " I just think he's the right fit for our organization. Those numbers will take care of themselves the second half of the season.

 

[OkieHawk]

I really don't make him out to be an "OC god " I just think he's the right fit for our organization. Those numbers will take care of themselves the second half of the season.

Evidently you don't read what we do then. Your talk of him borders on idolation. Who am I kidding, it is idolation. It wouldn't be so bad if you didn't try to defend him every. Single. Thread.

 

[marko358]

I really don't make him out to be an "OC god " I just think he's the right fit for our organization. Those numbers will take care of themselves the second half of the season.

Evidently you don't read what we do then. Your talk of him borders on idolation. Who am I kidding, it is idolation. It wouldn't be so bad if you didn't try to defend him every. Single. Thread.

We could be ranked 32nd in points, yardage, red zone %, 3rd down conversions, and every other meaningful offensive stat and he'd likely still reply "but we just went to 2 Super Bowls".

 

[Siouxhawk]

I really don't make him out to be an "OC god " I just think he's the right fit for our organization. Those numbers will take care of themselves the second half of the season.

Evidently you don't read what we do then. Your talk of him borders on idolation. Who am I kidding, it is idolation. It wouldn't be so bad if you didn't try to defend him every. Single. Thread.

And just like every thread where there's the same 4 or 5 people ripping him. What's the difference? To be fair, you're only an antagonist in 75% of those threads.