O'line. Two holes to fill.

[Ranker777]

The O-Line was so weak, it made it to consecutive super bowls. Yup...big problem.

The O-Line was not the reason Seattle made it two straight Super Bowls.

At some point RW will get hurt from bad OL play, and fans like you will understand the importance of having a strong OL. But until then (and it will happen if the OL doesn't improve), just continue bring up those Super Bowl appearances as an excuse.

You build teams from the inside/ out. The FO and PC have built the Hawks from outside/ in, impressive but risky.

 

[Ranker777]

The O-Line was so weak, it made it to consecutive super bowls. Yup...big problem.

The O-Line was not the reason Seattle made it two straight Super Bowls.

At some point RW will get hurt from bad OL play, and fans like you will understand the importance of having a strong OL. But until then (and it will happen if the OL doesn't improve), just continue bring up those Super Bowl appearances as an excuse.

You build teams from the inside/ out. The FO and PC have built the Hawks from outside/ in, impressive but risky.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

The O-Line was so weak, it made it to consecutive super bowls. Yup...big problem.

The O-Line was not the reason Seattle made it two straight Super Bowls.

At some point RW will get hurt from bad OL play, and fans like you will understand the importance of having a strong OL. But until then (and it will happen if the OL doesn't improve), just continue bring up those Super Bowl appearances as an excuse.

You build teams from the inside/ out. The FO and PC have built the Hawks from outside/ in, impressive but risky.

Has to be though. I mean the Bears made the Super Bowl with Jay Cutler as a quarterback, so he was obviously not a problem.

 

[Hawkfan77]

The O-Line was so weak, it made it to consecutive super bowls. Yup...big problem.

The O-Line was not the reason Seattle made it two straight Super Bowls.

At some point RW will get hurt from bad OL play, and fans like you will understand the importance of having a strong OL. But until then (and it will happen if the OL doesn't improve), just continue bring up those Super Bowl appearances as an excuse.

You build teams from the inside/ out. The FO and PC have built the Hawks from outside/ in, impressive but risky.

Has to be though. I mean the Bears made the Super Bowl with Jay Cutler as a quarterback, so he was obviously not a problem.

:229031_confused2:

 

[Hawkfan77]

The O-Line was so weak, it made it to consecutive super bowls. Yup...big problem.

The O-Line was not the reason Seattle made it two straight Super Bowls.

At some point RW will get hurt from bad OL play, and fans like you will understand the importance of having a strong OL. But until then (and it will happen if the OL doesn't improve), just continue bring up those Super Bowl appearances as an excuse.

You build teams from the inside/ out. The FO and PC have built the Hawks from outside/ in, impressive but risky.

But also was not so bad that it prevented us from making 2 straight SBs...The Hawks have a great run blocking OL but it seems that most simply gloss over that fact and care not to mention it. I guess whatever fits your narrative is what will be said. Perception is always will be reality for some.

 

[Sac]

I wouldn't mind us going after Justin Blalock, if it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Hell, I'd take Rob Simms back, he's available. Stefen Wisniewski is available too.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

But also was not so bad that it prevented us from making 2 straight SBs...The Hawks have a great run blocking OL but it seems that most simply gloss over that fact and care not to mention it. I guess whatever fits your narrative is what will be said. Perception is always will be reality for some.

The issue is that the offensive line is much worse now than it was last year, a year they were already bottom-of-the-league in protection. We now have several more holes to fill. This would be the equivalent of getting rid of all our receivers but Kearse and relying on the draft to provide the rest. They were already a liability and we are hitting the reset button on them.

That probably needs to happen; it's just scary when it does. It feels like a partial rebuild at a time where we should be plugging one or two minor holes and hoping for a third shot at the dance in a row.

 

[Hawkfan77]

But also was not so bad that it prevented us from making 2 straight SBs...The Hawks have a great run blocking OL but it seems that most simply gloss over that fact and care not to mention it. I guess whatever fits your narrative is what will be said. Perception is always will be reality for some.

The issue is that the offensive line is much worse now than it was last year, a year they were already bottom-of-the-league in protection. We now have several more holes to fill. This would be the equivalent of getting rid of all our receivers but Kearse and relying on the draft to provide the rest. They were already a liability and we are hitting the reset button on them.

That probably needs to happen; it's just scary when it does. It feels like a partial rebuild at a time where we should be plugging one or two minor holes and hoping for a third shot at the dance in a row.

I'm sorry but that's such a terrible analogy. It's absolutely nothing like getting rid of every WR other than Kearse, not even remotely similar.

We traded Unger (who missed 13 games the past 2 seasons. 2 seasons in which we made two Superbowls). We lost Carpenter to FA (a player who had become a whipping boy for .NET)

Bailey has played a ton and may just be an upgrade at LG and Lewis has played well in Unger's absence, an absence where the Hawks wen 8-2.

Let's stop acting like we lost 2 Steve Hutchinsons. We lost a LG who most hated and an oft-injured center who has basically missed an entire season combined the past two. I'm not trying to take away from Carp and Unger (who I think is a very good player) but whats the point of having a good player when you know he's going to miss time because he can never stay healthy? Besides it's march 11, the season is a long way away.

Okung-Bailey-Lewis-Sweezy-Britt is basically the exact same OL. Lewis and Lem combined for almost 200 more snaps than Unger and Bailey played almost 500 snaps himself. I just don't get the over reaction myself, especially because we all knew Carpenter would not be here next year and it's not like we could have fully counted on Unger to stay healthy

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Ty Sambrailo. Pick #63. That'd be my guess.

 

[kearly]

Potentially, he helps. Still will be on the OC to use him well and change the offense to match his strengths and hide his deficits.

I don't have a high opinion of Bevell, but I just don't see how he could screw that up. Will he be sub-optimal and use Graham stupidly 4-5 times a game? Sure. But then you have all those unscripted plays where Wilson runs around and takes the game out of Bevell's hands. Graham is really going to shine on those plays.

Bevell wouldn't have a job in the NFL if he didn't have Wilson and Lynch making his derelict high school offense with Vizzini tendencies look good. By all rights his offense should fail, but we have some magic makers who make up for it.

Well, now with Graham you can add another name to that list of players who can just make stuff happen. I just don't see how this isn't a very good thing, and particularly a good thing for Bevell, who struggles when the game is put on his shoulders.

You said it yourself, Bevell failed in the SB because he made it about the play, not about the players. Well, now he'll be pinch hitting Ken Griffey Jr. with Edgar Martinez instead of Joey Cora.

I feel really good about this, but I could be wrong. I guess time will tell.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

But also was not so bad that it prevented us from making 2 straight SBs...The Hawks have a great run blocking OL but it seems that most simply gloss over that fact and care not to mention it. I guess whatever fits your narrative is what will be said. Perception is always will be reality for some.

The issue is that the offensive line is much worse now than it was last year, a year they were already bottom-of-the-league in protection.

If this is the case, then what's the problem with replacing them?

Honestly, even if Wilson does get hurt -- there is no way to prove it was because of a poor OL. QBs even behind good lines get hit and get hurt. There is no way to judge fault.

Offensive lines -- they are all maligned pretty much everywhere. Seattle's will more than most due to the nature of our system and QB.

The way the roster is being paid -- we as fans are going to need to come to grips that our OL is going to be a turnstile. We can't pay everyone and we've chosen to covet other positions more than the OL. I would not be shocked in the least if next year, we're having to replace Okung and Sweezy both. It's not likely that we'll be letting Wagner or Avril or Bennett walk so we can pay them their 4-5m a year. Some unit has to play on the cheap. Up to now, the OL and QB positions were financing the contracts for the defense. That is increasingly looking like the OL unit is going to have to shoulder the entire value load.

OL is luckily, a position where you can reliably find quality in the 3rd through 6th round ranges. Guys that are starter NFL quality, and sometimes star quality. On the whole, it's a good unit to underpay if you have to choose one. Seattle does, because of the commitment to defense. We pay our defense a whole lot more than other teams around the league.

 

[Scottemojo]

Potentially, he helps. Still will be on the OC to use him well and change the offense to match his strengths and hide his deficits.

I don't have a high opinion of Bevell, but I just don't see how he could screw that up. Will he be sub-optimal and use Graham stupidly 4-5 times a game? Sure. But then you have all those unscripted plays where Wilson runs around and takes the game out of Bevell's hands. Graham is really going to shine on those plays.

Bevell wouldn't have a job in the NFL if he didn't have Wilson and Lynch making his derelict high school offense with Vizzini tendencies look good. By all rights his offense should fail, but we have some magic makers who make up for it.

Well, now with Graham you can add another name to that list of players who can just make stuff happen. I just don't see how this isn't a very good thing, and particularly a good thing for Bevell, who struggles when the game is put on his shoulders.

You said it yourself, Bevell failed in the SB because he made it about the play, not about the players. Well, now he'll be pinch hitting Ken Griffey Jr. with Edgar Martinez instead of Joey Cora.

I feel really good about this, but I could be wrong. I guess time will tell.

I feel good that you feel good. Eases my concerns to an extent.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

But also was not so bad that it prevented us from making 2 straight SBs...The Hawks have a great run blocking OL but it seems that most simply gloss over that fact and care not to mention it. I guess whatever fits your narrative is what will be said. Perception is always will be reality for some.

The issue is that the offensive line is much worse now than it was last year, a year they were already bottom-of-the-league in protection.

If this is the case, then what's the problem with replacing them?

Touché. And that is really the only silver lining I see in this. I guess it just boils down to me being worried that we're doing a complete scrub-and-redo on a major position when we've been so close to perfection the last two seasons. Improvement is one thing; a reset is another.

But yes, the fact that Kip is on board with the moves we're making certainly does go a long way toward assuaging my fears.

 

[PlinytheCenter]

Sailor is convinced that Unger was the only bright spot on the entire O-line. Clearly, that's why we went 6-10 last season (6 games started with an O-line, 10 clearly only with cardboard cutouts).

No, but it's definitely the weakest link on our team. It was one of the weakest in the entire NFL last year. And with the holes we've now punched in it, we'd better hope for several solid starters out of the draft, or we're going to see Wilson scrambling, ducking, running, and chucking the ball out of bounds rather than to his star tight end.

Offensive line has been a concern for several years now. We've addressed it here and there, and done just enough to get us by. We're lucky that we have a stellar defense that bails us out almost every time. We're lucky we have the toughest running back who punches through whatever holes the offense does or does not open for him. We're lucky we have a great quarterback that somehow finds a way to either get the ball down field, throw it away, or improvise and run.

PC and JS have shown us before they can blow a unit up and start over with fantastic results. I'm hoping this year with the offensive line will be one more example of that.

This x 1000 Can we finally and at last fix our friggin O line? Lots of picks this year; make it happen P&J!

 

[bigskydoc]

For the past three or four years, our offensive line has been top five in run blocking and has steadily moved up the ranks in pass pro. This year we ranked middle of the pack in pass pro, but that includes the rough start so at the end of the year we were playing at an above average level.

We just eliminated the two weakest members of the line.

If you could somehow merge Unger's mind with Carps body, you would have a stellar lineman. Instead you had a worn out center who was a leader on the line, and a physical specimen who you would find wandering downfield on pass plays if there wasn't someone directly in front of him to keep him from wandering.

We need to improve the line, but the need hasn't really become significantly larger with the loss of Carp and Unger.

- bsd RPA

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Potentially, he helps. Still will be on the OC to use him well and change the offense to match his strengths and hide his deficits.

I don't have a high opinion of Bevell, but I just don't see how he could screw that up. Will he be sub-optimal and use Graham stupidly 4-5 times a game? Sure. But then you have all those unscripted plays where Wilson runs around and takes the game out of Bevell's hands. Graham is really going to shine on those plays.

Bevell wouldn't have a job in the NFL if he didn't have Wilson and Lynch making his derelict high school offense with Vizzini tendencies look good. By all rights his offense should fail, but we have some magic makers who make up for it.

Well, now with Graham you can add another name to that list of players who can just make stuff happen. I just don't see how this isn't a very good thing, and particularly a good thing for Bevell, who struggles when the game is put on his shoulders.

You said it yourself, Bevell failed in the SB because he made it about the play, not about the players. Well, now he'll be pinch hitting Ken Griffey Jr. with Edgar Martinez instead of Joey Cora.

I feel really good about this, but I could be wrong. I guess time will tell.

I feel good that you feel good. Eases my concerns to an extent.

Ditto.

 

[Grahamhawker]

For the past three or four years, our offensive line has been top five in run blocking and has steadily moved up the ranks in pass pro. This year we ranked middle of the pack in pass pro, but that includes the rough start so at the end of the year we were playing at an above average level.

We just eliminated the two weakest members of the line.

If you could somehow merge Unger's mind with Carps body, you would have a stellar lineman. Instead you had a worn out center who was a leader on the line, and a physical specimen who you would find wandering downfield on pass plays if there wasn't someone directly in front of him to keep him from wandering.

We need to improve the line, but the need hasn't really become significantly larger with the loss of Carp and Unger.

- bsd RPA

Good Post.

Anyone honestly think Carp's effectiveness could not be matched by Bailey, a cheap journeyman FA, or mid-round rookie?

The offense ran better last season with Unger because of his pickups and line calls. Lewis was basically fresh off the street and showed it, but developed as he went along.

Not too worried about replacing them, actually.

 

[kearly]

For the past three or four years, our offensive line has been top five in run blocking and has steadily moved up the ranks in pass pro. This year we ranked middle of the pack in pass pro, but that includes the rough start so at the end of the year we were playing at an above average level.

We just eliminated the two weakest members of the line.

If you could somehow merge Unger's mind with Carps body, you would have a stellar lineman. Instead you had a worn out center who was a leader on the line, and a physical specimen who you would find wandering downfield on pass plays if there wasn't someone directly in front of him to keep him from wandering.

We need to improve the line, but the need hasn't really become significantly larger with the loss of Carp and Unger.

- bsd RPA

Good post.

I would quibble with a minor point, in that I think Britt was clearly our worst lineman last year. Don't get me wrong, I like Britt, but he had (in my observation) the highest number of ugly plays, and Sweezy might have been second. And I like Sweezy too.

Here's the thing though, NONE of the lineman who suited up for Seattle last year stood above the pack. Okung was our best, but Okung still got beat and still committed way too many penalties. I think Okung is above average but far from pro-bowl level right now. Sweezy regressed some after a strong 2013. Bailey had a couple rough games but was mostly okay, just like the guy he replaced. And Lewis actually looked very good considering that he was on his third team in a year and just 24 years old, though obviously he will need to learn the line calls.

Point being, when there is so much parity on the OL, losing any of those guys really isn't going to hurt all that much. Unger and Carp combined to miss 13 games last year, and when they were out you could barely feel the difference. Losing those guys is more a blow to the team's quality depth than a blow to the starting performance. And with the draft coming up and Seattle being flush with picks to spend on OL, I'm not worried about depth.

And if Seattle hits on a draft pick, their line could actually improve from all this. Maybe not in 2015. But in 2016 or 2017.

On a side note, I am going to miss Max Unger. Best interview of all the Seahawks players currently on the team, hands down. Maybe the best player interview since Hass.

 

[bigskydoc]

I would quibble with a minor point, in that I think Britt was clearly our worst lineman last year. Don't get me wrong, I like Britt, but he had (in my observation) the highest number of ugly plays, and Sweezy might have been second. And I like Sweezy too.

We might agree more than you think. If you take the entire year into consideration, then I agree Britt was our weakest guy on the line, no question. However, Britt made huge strides. From the standpoint of how they were playing at the end of the year, and by extension how they are likely to start off next year, I think Britt is currently playing better and is more important to this line than Unger or Carpenter.

Parity across the offensive line is a great way to put it. To me, Okung stands out as a cut above. Otherwise, you are right there is a lot of parity in the quality of our individual linemen.

- bsd

 

[hawksurething]

Their are PLENTY of centers in this draft better than unger who got overpowered in pass game anyways & stayed hurt. Like..Erving,Grasu,Marpet,Gallik. Finney.

Erving athletic! Power. But has thin legs which can get hurt & still learning center position. Also he is 6'5 tall for a center so leverage my be a issue. Plus Wilson is short.

Grasu all around athletic,great in pass protect power & run power. But won't win in short yardage due to power.

Marpet are athletic! Power! All around. But leans & lunges,also his weak division might be an issue(although I see him as being good no matter what!!!). Even with his short legs. Check out his senior bowl vs real comp !

Gallik is all around power,but not a great puller or 2nd level guy.(still might be good enuff though?).

Finney is power!,he won't get ran over in pass pro. But not athletic to pull at all or 2nd level at all.(so hawks might not want this powerful but slow dude?).

In conclusion I like #1 Marpet in 3rd or 4th rd. Then #2 Grasu if he gets stronger in shortyardage? #3 Gallik next.

Erving will be picked too high and is too tall with thin legs anyways! No more hurt body types for hawks.

If all else fails Finney will be a great power center at least .

Just stay away from Shaq mason and the others not listed. Too many horrible holes.

What do you guys think ? Have any special insight ?