PFF: Luck not top 10

[Hasselbeck]

Hasselbeck, we get it; you think Andrew Luck should be ranked 0 because being ranked 1 would be an insult since it implies there's even competition against Luck the God.

Excellent contribution as usual Roland. Thanks for that.

 

[ctrcat]

As for players not able to make the Seattle team? We don't know really but how did Beathea do on the Niners? He was seen as garbage and washed up in Indy and made the probowl and significantly improve the 9ers secondary last year. I am willing to compare other real examples if you know of other starters in Indy that left and failed somewhere else but I am not familiar with any.

You REALLY think Bethea is getting into the starting lineup when the Seahawks have the two best safeties in football? Come....... on....

Your quote.. again was..

"Sure we get butthurt when we here (sic) the same media saying Wilson is only successful because of the supporting cast.."

This isn't about what Colts starters could start elsewhere in the league. You are directly comparing Andrew Luck to Russell Wilson so lets directly compare the two rosters. The ONLY slam dunk without a shadow of a doubt player last year that would have started over what we had was T.Y. Hilton. After that.. Wilson literally had a better player at EVERY position.

Your buying into the hype that Luck has zero talent around him. Remember his GM was named executive of the year and supposedly for putting talent around Luck. What ever happened to that talent?

I get why people love him and I don;t blame them but the hype is where I have a problem. I'm not saying he is a scrub. Actually the opposite but the hype surrounding him is nauseating.

Not saying the Colts have zero talent. They have talented WR's, Vontae Davis is a great corner.. and they have pieces elsewhere.. but they are far from the most talented team in that conference. On paper, I am taking NE, Denver, Pittsburgh and Baltimore's rosters over Indy's. Indy does indeed benefit from a poor division, but Andrew Luck is the reason that team isn't the AFC version of Carolina winning a division with a losing record.

Indy isn't the AFC version of Carolina because they've spent 68% of their draft picks since taking Luck on offense, while Carolina has spent 42% on offense since taking Newton. And because Gettleman (with his 6 Super Bowl appearances) has had one less offseason after inheriting a cap nightmare, and runs circles over Grigson the amateur.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Excellent contribution as usual Roland. Thanks for that.

A bit over the top, but the point is true. You love Luck a lot. More than his individual NFL performance to date has warranted.

 

[RichNhansom]

As for players not able to make the Seattle team? We don't know really but how did Beathea do on the Niners? He was seen as garbage and washed up in Indy and made the probowl and significantly improve the 9ers secondary last year. I am willing to compare other real examples if you know of other starters in Indy that left and failed somewhere else but I am not familiar with any.

You REALLY think Bethea is getting into the starting lineup when the Seahawks have the two best safeties in football? Come....... on....

Your quote.. again was..

"Sure we get butthurt when we here (sic) the same media saying Wilson is only successful because of the supporting cast.."

This isn't about what Colts starters could start elsewhere in the league. You are directly comparing Andrew Luck to Russell Wilson so lets directly compare the two rosters. The ONLY slam dunk without a shadow of a doubt player last year that would have started over what we had was T.Y. Hilton. After that.. Wilson literally had a better player at EVERY position.

Your buying into the hype that Luck has zero talent around him. Remember his GM was named executive of the year and supposedly for putting talent around Luck. What ever happened to that talent?

I get why people love him and I don;t blame them but the hype is where I have a problem. I'm not saying he is a scrub. Actually the opposite but the hype surrounding him is nauseating.

Not saying the Colts have zero talent. They have talented WR's, Vontae Davis is a great corner.. and they have pieces elsewhere.. but they are far from the most talented team in that conference. On paper, I am taking NE, Denver, Pittsburgh and Baltimore's rosters over Indy's. Indy does indeed benefit from a poor division, but Andrew Luck is the reason that team isn't the AFC version of Carolina winning a division with a losing record.

Do you believe he has lived up to the hype? That is what I am talking about.

Of course Seattle has more talent and a better coaching staff and home field advantage but that doesn't change the fact the media for the last three years has repeatedly said Luck has zero talent around him. The media would have you believe not a single player on his team would be a starter on any other team in the NFL. That is the type of hype I am talking about. The media is trying to convince anyone who will listen that Luck is capable of going out onto the field with a high school team and still produce. It's beyond ridiculous.

When was the last time you heard the media even mention the division Luck plays in? How about how poorly he has played in the playoffs? You don't. It's 100% slobbering about how great he is with zero accountability. Hype and excuses.

So I ask you again. Do you believe he has lived up to the hype?

 

[Ambrose83]

It's simple, luck plays like shit, he has no talent around him... the Colts win and it's only because luck is that good. He gets a pass everytime with no accountability what so ever.

 

[Ramfan128]

Luck does not get a pass.

He is a great player with average talent around him. Any realistic Colt fan knew they had NO SHOT at beating the Patriots last year in the AFCCG.

All those fans love Luck, obviously. Why then would they feel like they had no chance to beat the Pats?

Did you guys feel like you had no chance at beating the Patriots in the superbowl? What's the difference?

There is a CLEAR difference in rosters between the Hawks and Colts. Take away the starting QBs and let them play....what happens? Seahawks win by a lot of points.

With Luck and Wilson playing, on a neutral field, I believe the Hawks only win the game by 7 or so.

this is obviously all subjective....but throwing out stats when players are asked to do different things and have different players around them is meaningless....just think what would happen.

So we go from neither Qb playing, and Seattle blowing them out, to both playing and the Hawks winning by 7 or so.

Luck is a lot better than Wilson, and there's nothing wrong with that. He SHOULD be. It's not an insult to say that Wilson has a great supporting cast - it's complimenting the entire Seahawks team. TY Hilton is no Dez Bryant. On the Rams he'd be Tavon Austin, and Tavon on the Colts would be a "stud" like Hilton. Again, what's the difference? QB.

 

[RichNhansom]

Luck does not get a pass.

He is a great player with average talent around him. Any realistic Colt fan knew they had NO SHOT at beating the Patriots last year in the AFCCG.

All those fans love Luck, obviously. Why then would they feel like they had no chance to beat the Pats?

Did you guys feel like you had no chance at beating the Patriots in the superbowl? What's the difference?

There is a CLEAR difference in rosters between the Hawks and Colts. Take away the starting QBs and let them play....what happens? Seahawks win by a lot of points.

With Luck and Wilson playing, on a neutral field, I believe the Hawks only win the game by 7 or so.

this is obviously all subjective....but throwing out stats when players are asked to do different things and have different players around them is meaningless....just think what would happen.

So we go from neither Qb playing, and Seattle blowing them out, to both playing and the Hawks winning by 7 or so.

Luck is a lot better than Wilson, and there's nothing wrong with that. He SHOULD be. It's not an insult to say that Wilson has a great supporting cast - it's complimenting the entire Seahawks team. TY Hilton is no Dez Bryant. On the Rams he'd be Tavon Austin, and Tavon on the Colts would be a "stud" like Hilton. Again, what's the difference? QB.

The topic of this thread is about Luck. Not our team or even Wilson. The opinions I have read from Seahawks fans is they agree that Luck is not as good or elite as the media would have you believe and his stats actually back up that he is in fact not elite at least not yet.

A coworker today showed me some predictions (NFL.com I believe) for the MVP this upcoming season and 4 out of 6 are already predicting Andrew Luck. So now it isn't even that he needs to earn it, all he needs to do now is not screw it up.

Do we have angst for Luck? Maybe but I would say the angst is more towards the media.

3 years ago in Wilson's rookie season he went to the probowl. He played the 3rd quarter and in that 1 quarter of play Wilson threw three TD's. Far and away the most impressive performance of the probowl yet for some reason he didn't win the probowl MVP. If Luck had done anything even close there is no question he would have been gifted the probowl MVP trophy. To me that is sickening.

I don't expect the media to jump on Wilson's band wagon and start pronouncing him King of the QB's. If he didn't deserve it I wouldn't want it but just imagine if Luck had the accomplishments of Wilson. Could you imagine the slobbering that would be going on? You would be hearing how he managed to get to two bowls already and he did it despite a putrid receiving corp made up of UFA's (I am assuming it would have to be putrid since they proclaim he has zero talent in Indy) and absolutely horrible O-line and all while getting pressured more than any QB in the NFL and all while playing in the toughest division on football. Instead all that gets ignored and all you hear is how much talent Wilson has around him and Beastmode and the D are why he has had success.

He's anointed and that is what is sickening. Not his fault but that doesn't change that he is get undeserved praise.

 

[Rob12]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/08/26/why-andrew-luck-ranks-outside-our-top-10-qbs-for-now/

While Luck has shown himself to be capable of impressive late-game drives, he still has too many plays every season that simply leave you scratching your head – mistakes that put him in position to have to lead comeback attempts in the first place. He has improved on this with each season, but he still has room to grow to become the quarterback he is capable of being – and frankly, the quarterback he is already credited with being.

What a breath of fresh air to hear an analyst tell it like we've always called it here on .Net This guy was annointed by the media day one. We all saw it. We all saw RW have to work for every accolade he earned. Meanwhile, Luck was being given accolades for being a QB that he wasn't.

RW, on their poll, was ranked 9th.

Kind of dumb. Luck is a beast and will put up insane numbers in this league. Whether he wins or not is dependent on whether or not the Colts can surround him with a defense that doesn't leak like a sieve and a running game.

He has some growing to do, but Luck is a great young QB. And I'm not particularly fond of saying that considering I am an unapologetic RW homer. But PFF typically swings and misses on stuff like this.

I guarantee that if you ask 32 NFL GM's which QB they would choose to build their team with, the vast majority would choose Luck. That's not an accident.

 

[Rob12]

I personally thought that as a rookie and through some of his second year Luck was REALLY overrated. He's really worked to develop his game and won me over, though. I think a lot of the things that he gets criticized for are actually the cost of doing business when developing new abilities as a player, particularly at the QB position. Coming out of Harbaugh's hyper-regimented offense I wasn't sure he could make that leap, but he's been doing it and at this point I think I've mostly been proven wrong. It's not fully reflected in the stat sheets yet, but at his age it's the progress you want to see, and he's shown that in spades whereas some other talented young QBs (e.g. Cam) haven't really developed and might just be who they are.


Now for the other comment that won't win me any fans here :lol: :

The Andrew Luck disdain from some on .net, to me, is one of the last vestiges of the Hawks-fan/Seattle-sports Victim Complex that has largely been scrubbed away over the last few years due to the Seahawks' unequestionable talent and greatness.

Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson are not in an epic battle to the death over praise, as praise is not a finite resource.

Given how much (very well deserved) praise the Hawks and Wilson get, the disdain expressed here by SOME people for the national media complimenting Luck's abilit just comes off as really misguided and petty, IMO. It harkens back to an earlier victim complex that just isn't that relevant anymore.

Basically, I TOTALLY get how and why it happens, but it's kind of anachronistic at this point, and makes me crinkle my nose a bit.

This a truly fantastic post. Well done.

 

[Rob12]

I could see why you would say that but I think it has more to do with just simple over hype and it wouldn't be near as bad if his performance actually backed up the hype but so far (like you said above) that stats don't reflect it. Keep in mind this guy has been touted as the next Manning from when he was still in college and since being in the NFL all we have heard are excuses. If you believed the media hype then not a single player on his roster would start on another NFL team.

Sure we get butthurt when we here the same media saying Wilson is only successful because of the supporting cast while completely ignoring playoff performance and division opponent and schedule played since being in the league but I think that is pretty normal.

On the 2014 Colts.. how many of their players would have started in Seattle?

The only one I think is a lock is T.Y. Hilton. Perhaps Dwayne Allen, but only because Zach Miller was injured. MAYBE Gosder Cherilus over Britt at RT. Even that is a stretch.

That's it.

I agree that Wilson deserves a bit more credit in spite of the surrounding cast of players he has been fortunate enough to play with, but I don't think you realize how much better Andrew Luck makes that Colts team. Yes their division is terrible for the most part. But they won two playoff games and made it to the AFC Championship.

I mean FFS .. THIS was their starting running back last season. They traded a 1st rounder for him!



I'm sorry but you cannot tell me that Andrew Luck wouldn't be incredibly successful in Seattle if he and Russell Wilson swapped places. Wilson would probably have the Colts in the playoffs too.. but would also run into the same problems Luck does.

This is some funny ****... The pic of Richardson I mean. I could have driven my 2011 Silverado through that hole with room to spare.

 

[Rob12]

Luck does not get a pass.

He is a great player with average talent around him. Any realistic Colt fan knew they had NO SHOT at beating the Patriots last year in the AFCCG.

All those fans love Luck, obviously. Why then would they feel like they had no chance to beat the Pats?

Did you guys feel like you had no chance at beating the Patriots in the superbowl? What's the difference?

There is a CLEAR difference in rosters between the Hawks and Colts. Take away the starting QBs and let them play....what happens? Seahawks win by a lot of points.

With Luck and Wilson playing, on a neutral field, I believe the Hawks only win the game by 7 or so.

this is obviously all subjective....but throwing out stats when players are asked to do different things and have different players around them is meaningless....just think what would happen.

So we go from neither Qb playing, and Seattle blowing them out, to both playing and the Hawks winning by 7 or so.

Luck is a lot better than Wilson, and there's nothing wrong with that. He SHOULD be. It's not an insult to say that Wilson has a great supporting cast - it's complimenting the entire Seahawks team. TY Hilton is no Dez Bryant. On the Rams he'd be Tavon Austin, and Tavon on the Colts would be a "stud" like Hilton. Again, what's the difference? QB.

This is where you lost me. Good post until then... But GTFO with that. At this point, despite the fact that Luck has had lesser talent, he can't hold RW's jock.

 

[ctrcat]

It's not fully reflected in the stat sheets yet, but at his age it's the progress you want to see, and he's shown that in spades whereas some other talented young QBs (e.g. Cam) haven't really developed and might just be who they are..

PFF rated Cam the #1 QB in the National Football League during the preseason. With no supporting cast and without using his size/speed to run around/over people. FWIW.