PFF rates Russell Wilson ahead of Andrew Luck

[Snake Plisskin]

Romo, Ryan and Rivers above Wilson? Not buying that.

I think a strong case can be made for at least two of those guys above Russ.

Maybe as a pure pocket passer, but as a winner, no. If there's 2 minutes left in the game and we need a TD, I'll take Wilson over those 3 any day.

Actually if you look at their pocket passing stats as percentages Wilson is better.

BOOM!

And thanks for the compliment Recon Hawk.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Put Luck in the Seahawks offense and see how many turnovers he has. Indy are totally dependant on Luck. They ask him to throw a ton. They're drafting receivers in round one and signing Andre Johnson. They know what they are. A team that is totally reliant on the quarterback -- just like when Peyton was the QB there.

Seattle is a ball control, balanced team with strengths across the board. And that's why they were one play from back to back Super Bowl Championships and the Colts are getting blown out in the AFC Championship.

It doesn't matter who is better. They're both great.

 

[WilsonMVP]

Romo, Ryan and Rivers above Wilson? Not buying that.

I think a strong case can be made for at least two of those guys above Russ.

I dont see how anyone can even make a case for Ryan. Dude has had tons of weps and hasnt produced. Romo might not have the playoff sucess but he is number 2 all time QB rating until Wilson qualifies with enough passes. He is .1 higher than Manning

 

[WilsonMVP]

Put Luck in the Seahawks offense and see how many turnovers he has. Indy are totally dependant on Luck. They ask him to throw a ton. They're drafting receivers in round one and signing Andre Johnson. They know what they are. A team that is totally reliant on the quarterback -- just like when Peyton was the QB there.

Seattle is a ball control, balanced team with strengths across the board. And that's why they were one play from back to back Super Bowl Championships and the Colts are getting blown out in the AFC Championship.

It doesn't matter who is better. They're both great.

Might not have as many but some of the throws he makes you just have to scratch your head and say WTF

 

[Recon_Hawk]

Add another known fact Luck faces 2-3 top 10 defenses a year, Wilson faces 6+-8

Not that this will change your mind, but I thought this was worth looking into from a different angle: How many teams did each QB face in 2014 with a top-10 DVOA in pass defense?

Luck: 5
RW: 4

 

[Recon_Hawk]

Put Luck in the Seahawks offense and see how many turnovers he has. Indy are totally dependant on Luck. They ask him to throw a ton. They're drafting receivers in round one and signing Andre Johnson. They know what they are. A team that is totally reliant on the quarterback -- just like when Peyton was the QB there.

Seattle is a ball control, balanced team with strengths across the board. And that's why they were one play from back to back Super Bowl Championships and the Colts are getting blown out in the AFC Championship.

It doesn't matter who is better. They're both great.

Might not have as many but some of the throws he makes you just have to scratch your head and say WTF

He does that a lot, but as I was referring to in an above post, other sports where the main star (ie basketball) is asked to carry the team, it's inevitable that they will force a play because they feel they have too to win.

Different teams/systems could have a whole different effect on how Luck plays the game.

 

[Anthony!]

Add another known fact Luck faces 2-3 top 10 defenses a year, Wilson faces 6+-8

Not that this will change your mind, but I thought this was worth looking into from a different angle: How many teams did each QB face in 2014 with a top-10 DVOA in pass defense?

Luck: 5
RW: 4

Your correct because if you look at the actual rankings Luck did not face 5. Also link please?

 

[jake206]

Not after tonights performance... he's been anything but.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Put Luck in the Seahawks offense and see how many turnovers he has. Indy are totally dependant on Luck. They ask him to throw a ton. They're drafting receivers in round one and signing Andre Johnson. They know what they are. A team that is totally reliant on the quarterback -- just like when Peyton was the QB there.

Seattle is a ball control, balanced team with strengths across the board. And that's why they were one play from back to back Super Bowl Championships and the Colts are getting blown out in the AFC Championship.

It doesn't matter who is better. They're both great.

Might not have as many but some of the throws he makes you just have to scratch your head and say WTF

And Wilson does too.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

Add another known fact Luck faces 2-3 top 10 defenses a year, Wilson faces 6+-8

Not that this will change your mind, but I thought this was worth looking into from a different angle: How many teams did each QB face in 2014 with a top-10 DVOA in pass defense?

Luck: 5
RW: 4

Your correct because if you look at the actual rankings Luck did not face 5. Also link please?

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

Luck: Broncos, Ravens, Browns, Texans 2x
Wilson: Broncos, Panthers, SF 2x

 

[theincrediblesok]

Add another known fact Luck faces 2-3 top 10 defenses a year, Wilson faces 6+-8

Not that this will change your mind, but I thought this was worth looking into from a different angle: How many teams did each QB face in 2014 with a top-10 DVOA in pass defense?

Luck: 5
RW: 4

Your correct because if you look at the actual rankings Luck did not face 5. Also link please?

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

Luck: Broncos, Ravens, Browns, Texans 2x
Wilson: Broncos, Panthers, SF 2x

Ummm the NFC West all had top 10 defenses....so you forgot Arizona and St. Louis, and don't forget Philadelphia for Wilson.

Actually I think I see what you did, you used the Weighted DVOA, and if you go by that then you can only use it for teams that plays the defense in the 2nd half of the season.

So by that, you can't count the 8th game

Browns and Texans for Luck

SF x2 Philadelphia, and St. Louis for Wilson

 

[Hawkpower]

Not that this will change your mind, but I thought this was worth looking into from a different angle: How many teams did each QB face in 2014 with a top-10 DVOA in pass defense?

Luck: 5
RW: 4[/quote]

Your correct because if you look at the actual rankings Luck did not face 5. Also link please?[/quote]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

Luck: Broncos, Ravens, Browns, Texans 2x
Wilson: Broncos, Panthers, SF 2x[/quote]

Ummm the NFC West all had top 10 defenses....so you forgot Arizona and St. Louis, and don't forget Philadelphia for Wilson.

Actually I think I see what you did, you used the Weighted DVOA, and if you go by that then you can only use it for teams that plays the defense in the 2nd half of the season.

So by that, you can't count the 8th game

Browns and Texans for Luck

SF x2 Philadelphia, and St. Louis for Wilson[/quote]





Really? Cmon man, thats nitpicking.

The point of the original post is still valid. The fallacy that Luck plays middle school defenses all year while poor Russ plays against Greek Gods is misleading.

 

[theincrediblesok]

Really? Cmon man, thats nitpicking.

The point of the original post is still valid. The fallacy that Luck plays middle school defenses all year while poor Russ plays against Greek Gods is misleading.

Recon nitpicked first, because weighted DVOA is adjusted for how teams performed later in the season, meaning by half the season they became a better defense, so that's why i took it 9th game and up. Now if you are going by TOP 10 DVOA here's a list below. I'm not trying to say Russ plays against the Greek Gods, just stating the fact that those teams are listed as Top 10 defenses.

Luck - Texans x 2, Broncos, Philadelphia, Ravens
Wilson - SF x 2, St. Louis x 2, Arizona x 2, Broncos, Philadelphia

 

[theincrediblesok]

Oh and if you want to go full season weighted DVOA

Luck - Texans x2, Broncos, Philadelphia, Browns
Wilson - SF x 2, St Louis x 2, Broncos, Panthers, Philadelphia

 

[Hawkpower]

Oh and if you want to go full season weighted DVOA

Luck - Texans x2, Broncos, Philadelphia, Browns
Wilson - SF x 2, St Louis x 2, Broncos, Panthers, Philadelphia

Ok, so depending on how one wants to look at it, Wilson or Luck played a slightly tougher schedule than the other in regards to defenses using DVOA as a barometer.

Either way, it shatters the myth that Luck has a MUCH easier road to plow in comparison to Wilson.

 

[theincrediblesok]

Oh and if you want to go full season weighted DVOA

Luck - Texans x2, Broncos, Philadelphia, Browns
Wilson - SF x 2, St Louis x 2, Broncos, Panthers, Philadelphia

Ok, so depending on how one wants to look at it, Wilson or Luck played a slightly tougher schedule than the other in regards to defenses using DVOA as a barometer.

Either way, it shatters the myth that Luck has a MUCH easier road to plow in comparison to Wilson.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing about the tough schedule, i just saw that Recon didn't add Arizona and St. Louis as Top 10 defense and saw that he used weighted DVOA but was also missing some teams, just wanted to correct before it gets misleading.

The only way to really know how they faired against those top 10 defenses last year is to check each QBs stats to see how well they did against those defenses, maybe I will do that tomorrow just to see.

 

[Hawkpower]

Oh and if you want to go full season weighted DVOA

Luck - Texans x2, Broncos, Philadelphia, Browns
Wilson - SF x 2, St Louis x 2, Broncos, Panthers, Philadelphia

Ok, so depending on how one wants to look at it, Wilson or Luck played a slightly tougher schedule than the other in regards to defenses using DVOA as a barometer.

Either way, it shatters the myth that Luck has a MUCH easier road to plow in comparison to Wilson.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing about the tough schedule, i just saw that Recon didn't add Arizona and St. Louis as Top 10 defense and saw that he used weighted DVOA but was also missing some teams, just wanted to correct before it gets misleading.

The only way to really know how they faired against those top 10 defenses last year is to check each QBs stats to see how well they did against those defenses, maybe I will do that tomorrow just to see.

True, good point.

I also went back and found which poster was pushing the "Luck has it so much easier than Wilson" fallacy and was not surprised at who it was.

So research in this case may not matter

 

[Anthony!]

Add another known fact Luck faces 2-3 top 10 defenses a year, Wilson faces 6+-8

Not that this will change your mind, but I thought this was worth looking into from a different angle: How many teams did each QB face in 2014 with a top-10 DVOA in pass defense?

Luck: 5
RW: 4

Your correct because if you look at the actual rankings Luck did not face 5. Also link please?

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

Luck: Broncos, Ravens, Browns, Texans 2x
Wilson: Broncos, Panthers, SF 2x

Thanks interesting however again by the actual ranking he faced less.

 

[Anthony!]

Not that this will change your mind, but I thought this was worth looking into from a different angle: How many teams did each QB face in 2014 with a top-10 DVOA in pass defense?

Luck: 5
RW: 4

Your correct because if you look at the actual rankings Luck did not face 5. Also link please?[/quote]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

Luck: Broncos, Ravens, Browns, Texans 2x
Wilson: Broncos, Panthers, SF 2x[/quote]

Ummm the NFC West all had top 10 defenses....so you forgot Arizona and St. Louis, and don't forget Philadelphia for Wilson.

Actually I think I see what you did, you used the Weighted DVOA, and if you go by that then you can only use it for teams that plays the defense in the 2nd half of the season.

So by that, you can't count the 8th game

Browns and Texans for Luck

SF x2 Philadelphia, and St. Louis for Wilson[/quote]


no he made a valid point and my point still stands you pointed out 1 year go back all 3 years and Wilson far and away plays harder defenses, and also does not change all the other things I brought up.




Really? Cmon man, thats nitpicking.

The point of the original post is still valid. The fallacy that Luck plays middle school defenses all year while poor Russ plays against Greek Gods is misleading.[/quote]

 

[Anthony!]

Oh and if you want to go full season weighted DVOA

Luck - Texans x2, Broncos, Philadelphia, Browns
Wilson - SF x 2, St Louis x 2, Broncos, Panthers, Philadelphia

Ok, so depending on how one wants to look at it, Wilson or Luck played a slightly tougher schedule than the other in regards to defenses using DVOA as a barometer.

Either way, it shatters the myth that Luck has a MUCH easier road to plow in comparison to Wilson.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing about the tough schedule, i just saw that Recon didn't add Arizona and St. Louis as Top 10 defense and saw that he used weighted DVOA but was also missing some teams, just wanted to correct before it gets misleading.

The only way to really know how they faired against those top 10 defenses last year is to check each QBs stats to see how well they did against those defenses, maybe I will do that tomorrow just to see.

True, good point.

I also went back and found which poster was pushing the "Luck has it so much easier than Wilson" fallacy and was not surprised at who it was.

So research in this case may not matter

Luck did have it easier as has ben shown

according to ESPN below are the top 10 pass defenses

Seattle, KC, Buff, SD, SF, Miami, Minn, Clev Denver, GB

Wilson played 6 of them
Luck played 1 of them

and if you go full season weighted DVOA

Luck - Texans x2, Broncos, Philadelphia, Browns = 5
Wilson - SF x 2, St Louis x 2, Broncos, Panthers, Philadelphia =7

So yes Wilson has had it tougher period