Problem between Russell and Doug??

[Throwdown]

I think Doug loves to make people think on their own. This is what he twitted back to me today.


Tab420

@DougBaldwinJr This is the problem with social media. Everyone thinks they know what people are talking about.

4:27 PM - 16 Jul 2014

‏DougBaldwinJr

@Tab420 yep. Everyone has the answers. I like to leave em with more questions. Lol.

THANK YOUUU

That just confirmed my thoughts to me, it was just Baldwin rant with no target in mind, and the 12's think Wilson is a phoney.

SALUTE!

 

[HansGruber]

What does it mean to be a phony?

I don't know anyone in any position of real authority or in any "real" job that isn't a "phony" by those standards. That's part of being a mature, adult professional.

It's one thing if Russell wasn't consistent in his message, if he lacked integrity. Then yeah, that'd be phony. But I don't see that in Russell Wilson at all. The kid has shown up at Children's Hospital for a few hours every Tuesday for the last two years. He was doing it before it even got any press. He has been totally consistent in his message, both the Christianity stuff and his "rah rah" positive stuff. That isn't phony at all. It's admirable, and totally the role model I want for my children.

 

[brettb3]

Cuz wilson is actually the type to respond to a shot...

I hate my fellow Seahawk fans today, y'all give me indigestion.

How would you explain those tweets then? I'm just looking for an explanation of all this evidence that fits together and makes sense... and everything so far seems to be consistently pointing in a certain direction.

In terms of timeline, Baldwin made his four tweets all at the same time. They were posted between 8 and 9 PM.

Wilson's "rise above" tweet came three hours later. The two cryptic biblical tweets Wilson followed with came the next morning, 3 minutes apart.

And for the record, I don't think Wilson was taking a shot in any way. He was simply expressing a religious view of forgiveness and transcending strife.

Russell's tweets could have been about anything. Or nothing at all.

 

[Throwdown]

Hey i'm not the one that automatically thought Russell Wilson when the rant happened, I dind't think anything of it.

Ask the 12's that thought it was about Wilson, broham

 

[kearly]

Also, you're a numbers guy, and you seem really tuned into the business of football, the Seahawks from a business standpoint.

Why would they sign Baldwin to an extension worth over $4m/yr but offer Tate less? I mean, yeah, Baldwin was a baller and came up big at times, but I don't think he was THAT much better than Tate that you let Tate walk and extend Baldwin.

Further, they've openly talked to some other free agents at WR this offseason. They drafted a couple of young guys as well. So it's not like they're all set at WR and had to cut someone.

I honestly don't really understand the decision to let Tate walk like that. He would have taken $5m/yr which wouldn't have been a problem at all. The only thing that made sense about it to me was that he disappeared in the Arizona game and it was obvious we need more size and speed at WR. But still... you extend Baldwin? He's like a Tate clone, but not quite as good as Tate (I'd put him just slightly below Tate due to Tate's ability as a kick and punt returner).

The whole Tate thing just doesn't make sense. We have a real hole in punt and kick returns. And Tate wasn't asking so much that he'd have crippled the team. He stayed healthy and produced when it counted. Something doesn't add up. I'm not saying the rumors are true, but something is definitely off. It doesn't make sense that the Seahawks would throw a lowball offer out there and just stop talking to his agent, which is exactly what they did.

I think Tate kind of played his cards slightly wrong in FA, at least based on hearsay. And Baldwin brilliantly used his RFA tag to leverage a new contract. So that's part of it.

But yeah, I think in terms of cap value Tate comes in well ahead of Baldwin. Better receiving production, rarer skillset, huge special teams contribution, but most importantly, the guy never gets hurt. Durability history alone would make Tate significantly more valuable.

Whether other things factored, I can't comment on that, but like you I thought the fact that they allegedly only offered $4 million per year for Tate but then turn around and extend Baldwin for $5.5 million per in the two added years they gave him was a bit puzzling. Baldwin is an iconic Seahawk, and he was money in the playoffs, but I think JS is smarter than to pay a guy for what he did or didn't do in a 3 game sample versus the entire body of work.

 

[TAB420]

Exactly. I posted back to him stated that he loved to stir the pot and he replied.

haha stir the pot?! Never! I just want to get people to THINK. Seems as though people have forgotten how to do so at times.

 

[kearly]

I think Doug loves to make people think on their own. This is what he twitted back to me today.


Tab420

@DougBaldwinJr This is the problem with social media. Everyone thinks they know what people are talking about.

4:27 PM - 16 Jul 2014

‏DougBaldwinJr

@Tab420 yep. Everyone has the answers. I like to leave em with more questions. Lol.

THANK YOUUU

That just confirmed my thoughts to me, it was just Baldwin rant with no target in mind, and the 12's think Wilson is a phoney.

SALUTE!

Honestly though, what would you expect him to say? Kind of seems like ass-covering to me.

I am open minded to the possibility of coincidence. But if I made a series of tweets that very strongly alluded to negative things about my boss or spouse, etc, I would probably want to clear that up after I read it over. Especially if people asked me about it. Even if he is not talking about Wilson, it seems plausible to me that Wilson thinks he is, judging by the obvious responsive nature and timing of his twitter page.

FWIW, I do not think Wilson is fake in any way. But does he kind of look it sometimes? Definitely. Honestly I struggle to think of who fits all his commentary even half as well as Wilson. Is it fair commentary? No. But it fits a lot of things people said or feared about Wilson in the past. Unfairly. Wilson is a 100% legit caring person, his time at Children's hospitals and passing academies (which he started in HS) prove as much. But does he have kind of a fake smile? Kinda. Does he have a bit of a fake laugh. Kinda. Is he a bit corporate? Kinda. I'm 100% fine with it, but I could see how someone from the "keep it real" crowd could be annoyed by those traits. I think that's where the alleged angst may have sprung from.

I guess what I can't understand is why the vicious tone of the tweets by Baldwin? It definitely sounds like he's doing more than expressing who he is. He's expressing who he's NOT. Big difference. The last tweet was practically venom coated.

 

[brettb3]

I think Doug loves to make people think on their own. This is what he twitted back to me today.


Tab420

@DougBaldwinJr This is the problem with social media. Everyone thinks they know what people are talking about.

4:27 PM - 16 Jul 2014

‏DougBaldwinJr

@Tab420 yep. Everyone has the answers. I like to leave em with more questions. Lol.

THANK YOUUU

That just confirmed my thoughts to me, it was just Baldwin rant with no target in mind, and the 12's think Wilson is a phoney.

SALUTE!

Honestly though, what would you expect him to say? Kind of seems like ass-covering to me.

I am open minded to the possibility of coincidence. But if I made a series of tweets that very strongly alluded to negative things about my boss or spouse, etc, I would probably want to clear that up after I read it over. Especially if people asked me about it. Even if he is not talking about Wilson, it seems plausible to me that Wilson thinks he is.

FWIW, I do not think Wilson is fake in any way. But does he kind of look it sometimes? Definitely. Honestly I struggle to think of who fits all his commentary even half as well as Wilson. Is it fair commentary? No. But it fits a lot of things people said or feared about Wilson in the past. Unfairly.

I guess what I can't understand is why the vicious tone of the tweets by Baldwin? It definitely sounds like he's doing more than expressing who he is. He's expressing who he's NOT. Big difference. The last tweet was practically venom coated.

Out of all the athletes that Doug Baldwin has interacted with in his career, I'll bet a good number of them fits his commentary.

 

[HansGruber]

I think Tate kind of played his cards slightly wrong in FA, at least based on hearsay. And Baldwin brilliantly used his RFA tag to leverage a new contract. So that's part of it.

But yeah, I think in terms of cap value Tate comes in well ahead of Baldwin. Better receiving production, rarer skillset, huge special teams contribution, but most importantly, the guy never gets hurt. Durability history alone would make Tate significantly more valuable.

Whether other things factored, I can't comment on that, but like you I thought the fact that they allegedly only offered $4 million per year for Tate but then turn around and extend Baldwin for $5.5 million per in the two added years they gave him was a bit puzzling. Baldwin is an iconic Seahawk, and he was money in the playoffs, but I think JS is smarter than to pay a guy for what he did or didn't do in a 3 game sample versus the entire body of work.

Yeah, but no matter how Tate played his cards, the Seahawks made one offer - a very lowball offer, lower than they offered Baldwin - and that was it. No further discussion. This at least according to Tate, and I don't see why he'd lie about it. To do so would seriously harm any future negotiations with other teams. And the Seahawks would surely clarify that situation so that the rookies wouldn't think they're going to get screwed after playing hard for the team.

As an employer, I handle employment negotiations regularly. If I have an employee that I like, and they ask for an absurd raise, I'm going to see that as a conversation. I'm going to negotiate and find a reasonable middle ground. I want my employees to be happy and productive, and that's how you do that. The Seahawks have proven to share this philosophy and have openly stated so in the media many times.

The only negotiation that starts and ends with the same offer is one in which one party has already decided they're not interested. The Seahawks entered that negotiation as the "not interested" party.

I think there's a lot more to it than anyone has let on. Like you said, Tate was really valuable to us. More so than Baldwin. SOMETHING made the Seahawks decide permanently that they weren't interested. Very few things would do that, but I'll bet locker room chemistry would be a big one on that list. Also, have you noticed that Wilson hasn't responded AT ALL to Tate's claim that they're still friends? The lineman that was talking about it, Giacomini, said there was ice between them during the Superbowl, and I also noticed you won't find any photos of them hanging out. They were acting like they didn't know each other. Something happened and I honestly believe it was a factor in letting Tate walk.

 

[Fuzzman55]

I thought he was talking about Lebron. Don't be so mean, Doug. The letter to Cleveland was real!

 

[kearly]

Out of all the athletes that Doug Baldwin has interacted with in his career, I'll bet a good number of them fits his commentary.

That's fair, I don't disagree. A good number of "face of the franchise" players satisfy most of Baldwin's overly cynical viewpoints.

That said, it does seem like everything Baldwin says points at Wilson (most of it unfairly). The robot comment stood out especially, since not many NFL players are called robots and Wilson has been dubbed a robot in the locker room almost since day one.

 

[RolandDeschain]

I said this in the thread about it months ago, but watch the part of the Super Bowl XLVIII Blu-ray where Russell tries to tell Golden to try and work on just getting the first down before doing crazy YAC moves. It's hella awkward.

 

[Anthony!]

Well did you read the interview with Tate? HE kind of through Rw under the bus and said Stafford is better, that could be what Rw is walking about, a supposedly good friend of his just made it clear a guy he has yet to play a real gam with is better than the guy that put you on the map

That's a decent point, in that the timelines match somewhat. But would Wilson show so much hurt over the petty observation on TV that Stafford has just a little more zip on his passes? (Which, in all honesty, is probably an accurate statement). It wasn't like Tate attacked Wilson in that interview.

HE also said that Stafford places the ball in tight windows and does not put his WR in harms way and that was all around hit mentioning of Rw, When I read it I read it as him saying what Stafford does that Rw does not.

 

[kearly]

Great convo Hans, awesome stuff. I'll try and keep an open and skeptical mind on the issue, but it should be fun to observe Tate and Wilson going forward, or perhaps the next time I put on XLVIII.

 

[kearly]

HE also said that Stafford places the ball in tight windows and does not put his WR in harms way and that was all around hit mentioning of Rw, When I read it I read it as him saying what Stafford does that Rw does not.

I saw the interview, I thought it was pretty good actually. I thought Tate's Stafford/Wilson comments were a bit weird, but I didn't hear anything from them that would get a reasonable person upset, unless Wilson's massively insecure or something, which I really doubt.

It's totally possible that there are sour grapes between Tate and Wilson, but I don't think that sufficiently explains the immediate reactionary nature of the tweets or their timing to Baldwin's commentary.

 

[HansGruber]

I said this in the thread about it months ago, but watch the part of the Super Bowl XLVIII Blu-ray where Russell tries to tell Golden to try and work on just getting the first down before doing crazy YAC moves. It's hella awkward.

And honestly, what's more awkward than Tate addressing the rumors if they're not true? That'd just be freaking bizarre. Totally awkward. Further, his method of debunking the rumor was to say "Wilson and I are still close friends, we talk to each other all the time." Something like that.

But nothing from Wilson. Nothing. Not even a twitter acknowledgement. No fist bump, no shout out, no "That's my bro" tweet, nothing. Just "icy" quiet.

I don't know about other people here, but I acknowledge my friends when they shout out like that. Heck, even Roland, who I've argued with a million times here, if he was to shout out on another forum, I'd acknowledge it. We're on the same team, we got no beef.

There's only one reason to stay quiet and that's to avoid lying.

 

[RolandDeschain]

There's only one reason to stay quiet and that's to avoid lying.

Yep. It's exactly how you'd expect a nice, kindly religious guy to respond to this. (That sounds kind of smartassy or denigrating to Wilson, but I don't mean it that way at all.)

 

[Smellyman]

Cuz wilson is actually the type to respond to a shot...

I hate my fellow Seahawk fans today, y'all give me indigestion.

thread bugs me too.



so does typing y'all

 

[HansGruber]

There's only one reason to stay quiet and that's to avoid lying.

Yep. It's exactly how you'd expect a nice, kindly religious guy to respond to this. (That sounds kind of smartassy or denigrating to Wilson, but I don't mean it that way at all.)

Nope, doesn't sound denigrating at all. Wilson has strong religious beliefs, which include personal integrity and honesty. There is only one way to maintain integrity in that situation, and that's to keep the mouth shut and say nothing at all.

Further, it was weird to me that Tate posted a picture of his wife hanging out with Ashton, as a direct Twitter response to the cheating rumor. Seriously, Tate? When I was young, and one of my friends broke up with a girl, she's about the last person in the world that I want to be seen hanging out with. I mean, talk about awkward. Why would you even post her picture in a public response to a rumor you think is absurd? That's what - #4 on the bro code of things you never do? Hanging out with exes? Ugh. Even if your girls are friends, you don't put photos of your bro's ex online or in his face. Great way to end a friendship.

And why would she even agree to a photo of herself with Tate's wife being used to respond to rumors of her cheating on Russell? Why would she care what random idiots on the internet think? She's still trying to convince someone.

Generally, a woman trying to convince you they didn't cheat after a breakup is a really bad sign. I've had a lot of breakups. Made the mistake once of questioning a faithful woman's fidelity during the breakup (I was young and insecure), and I honestly thought I was about to be murdered. In a restaurant in front of dozens of people. She didn't try to convince me of anything, she tried to put her steak knife into my chest. This is not a topic you bring up with recently broken-up faithful women. Unless you really hate your man parts and have always dreamed of being a soprano.

With all the major signs pointing to the obvious, I'm just surprised people still argue it and act all indignant about the rumor. It sure seems like a pretty solid rumor. And I'm the last person on earth to care about celebrity gossip.

 

[SalishHawkFan]

Or it could be a shot at Sherm or Tate or generally anyone he perceives as fake.

It COULD be, but it's not. It's directed straight at Russell Wilson. I have but one word for you denialists:

Robotic.


It's always been the word to describe RW. No one else. Just RW.