Red Zone Offense

[HawkFan72]

Forgive me if this could go in another thread, but I could not find one addressing this issue.

Our Red Zone Offense is just awful. We rank 25th in the NFL at scoring TDs when we get in the Red Zone (51.6%). For comparison, our recent opponent, Oakland, is 2nd as they score a TD in the Red Zone 77% of the time. We saw how good they were when they got up close. Denver is #1 at over 80% :shock: The fact that we basically only have a 50/50 shot to score a TD when we get in the Red Zone has to change.

Wilson hasn't passed for a Red Zone TD since we played the Rams. If Marshawn doesn't run it in or Wilson doesn't run it in, if feels like it's going to be a Field Goal. Or else we have to score from outside the 20 (as Willson did vs. Carolina).

Last year the Offense struggled with this too, as they only had a 53% success rate. And if you remember, the Offense was really struggling over the last few weeks of the season last year. We lost 2 of our final 4 in large part because of Offensive struggles with scoring, especially in the Red Zone.

I don't know if it's the lack of a big receiver like Sidney Rice, or poor routes, or bad schemes, but this is an area that really needs to change if the Offense is going to get back on track.

Here's where the numbers came from: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct 49ers are even worse than us...yikes 40%!

 

[Exittium]

yeah its concerning but I'd also say that our oline is collapsing too quickly which doesnt give wilson nor the receivers a lot of time. Not that time should be needed, but yeah. Overall in the end its still worrisome

 

[hawkfan68]

I agree the redzone offense has been a problem. This isn't new, it's something that has been lingering for a few years now. They were 0-3 lin the redzone against the Panthers and they didn't really do that well last Sunday. This offense goes completely into hibernation when hits the 10 yard line or closer. Whether it's the playcalling or what, it needed to be fixed a long time ago.

Arizona and SF are struggling in this area too. So I'm envisioning some 9-6 type of contests coming up (vs. Cards and 49ers).

 

[HawkFan72]

I looked up some more stats just to get some more clarity. This year the Hawks have scored 8 passing TDs in the Red Zone and 8 Rushing TDs in the Red Zone.

However, of those 8 passing TDs, 5 of them have been to RBs (Lynch, Turbin, and Coleman). 1 has been to a TE (Helfet) and 2 have been to WRs (Kearse, Baldwin). Only 3 passing TDs to receivers is pretty pathetic. This tells me that the receivers are not getting the job done in the endzone and we miss a big target there.

This is also why I have had the feeling that if Lynch or Wilson doesn't get the ball in the endzone with their legs, we have to settle for a FG. Lynch is almost always catching his TD passes outside of the endzone and running them in (except for his first TD catch on that slant). Coleman's and Turbin's were outside the endzone too. Baldwin ran his in.

Lynch, Helfet, and Kearse have the only TD catches that have actually been caught in the endzone by a receiver this year. Every other time, passes to the end zone have been incomplete. That's awful. When the Hawks get close to the endzone, the Hawks can't get the job done past the goalline. Their best bet has been to pass underneath to score. It's great to get some scores that way, but the Offense will struggle if they can't get more balance by scoring some TDs by catching the ball in the endzone. Defenses are tough around the goal line.

 

[BillHawks]

The red zone is an area of the field where Russ' height actually hurts him. When the field shrinks it makes everything tougher and taller QBs certainly have an advantage in that area. Bevell seems to be aware of this at least and usually tries to roll him out but the defenses have made that adjustment.

I think that's why in the Raiders game we saw them take a few shots from around the 20.

 

[kearly]

I think this red zone ranking is deceiving.

First off, the difference between 2014's RZ rate and 2013's is less than 2%.

Second, it's only been 8 games, so we're probably talking about a sample size of 30 or so red zone opportunities. It's a small number that could be skewed quite a bit by say, Lynch dropping a TD for an interception or the backup center snapping the ball into Wilson's ankle.

The one genuinely troubling aspect of our RZ offense is the OL penalties. I would guess that when Seattle blows it in the RZ, more often than not it's because the OL backed them up into 3rd and long situations.

The lack of a tall target probably holds Seattle back some as well. Imagine where Denver would be if they didn't have Julius and Demaryius. Or San Diego without Antonio Gates.

 

[DavidSeven]

I think personnel is a huge part of it. In 2012, Sidney Rice, Zach Miller, Anthony McCoy, and Braylon Edwards accounted for 14 receiving TDs. Those are big targets. If you include Tate, who plays much bigger than his size, that's 21 of 27 TDs. Willson and Helfet have the size, but we haven't seen much to suggest that either of those guys can catch in a crowded area. Obviously, Wilson's height might exasperate the issue, but he's been able to get in the endzone in the past.

Right now, inside the 10, it seems we can only get in on a slant, RB run or QB keeper. I agree with the suggestion above that the field appears to be more wide open for Russ from beyond the 20.

This is why I thought Sidney Rice's retirement was a huge and underrated loss. Even hobbled last year, he had more receiving TDs through 7.5 games than our entire receiving corps has right now.

 

[chawx]

I think a big key to remember here is Unger has been out. We're at 41% in our last 3 games in the RZ according to OPs link at the top... Yeah, I know we weren't really tearing it up before when Unger was in, but it was better than 41%! I think he makes a big difference for us when it comes to the little things on the OL. The other guys have been serviceable, but I think RW has to take on too much when he has to babysit his Center on top of read and diagnose the plays.

But, with that said, we could definitely get better at using a guy like Norwood when we get close, and hopefully Zach Miller when he gets healthy too. I think we've done admirably weathering the injury storm (something not typical of a Seahawk team), 5-3 and 2 games behind the lead for the Division with 2 games still to play against AZ, we definitely control our own fate still at the 1/2 way mark—just take it one game at a time, and we'll be alright.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

1. Stupid penalties pushing offense back
2. No Miller
3. Horrific pass protection
4. No big target receiver like Rice
5. Small WR group with average to below average separation

Voila, bad red zone offense.

 

[hawkfan68]

I think this red zone ranking is deceiving.

First off, the difference between 2014's RZ rate and 2013's is less than 2%.

Second, it's only been 8 games, so we're probably talking about a sample size of 30 or so red zone opportunities. It's a small number that could be skewed quite a bit by say, Lynch dropping a TD for an interception or the backup center snapping the ball into Wilson's ankle.

The one genuinely troubling aspect of our RZ offense is the OL penalties. I would guess that when Seattle blows it in the RZ, more often than not it's because the OL backed them up into 3rd and long situations.

The lack of a tall target probably holds Seattle back some as well. Imagine where Denver would be if they didn't have Julius and Demaryius. Or San Diego without Antonio Gates.

I agree with 95% of your post. I'm not so sure about the lack of tall targets. Luke Willson is 6'5 and Cooper Helfet is 6'4. While they are not Julius or Demaryius, they sure have the height. How many tall targets are needed? I think getting open and finding them is the real issue. Redzone hasn't been efficient since Wilson has been here so BillHawks does have a point about Russ' height impacting the offense there.

 

[scutterhawk]

I agree the redzone offense has been a problem. This isn't new, it's something that has been lingering for a few years now. They were 0-3 lin the redzone against the Panthers and they didn't really do that well last Sunday. This offense goes completely into hibernation when hits the 10 yard line or closer. Whether it's the playcalling or what, it needed to be fixed a long time ago.

Arizona and SF are struggling in this area too. So I'm envisioning some 9-6 type of contests coming up (vs. Cards and 49ers).

Our Offense has a real problem inside the 20 because the field for Defenses is compressed, The Defenses are throwing more pressure on our "Built For Running" Offense and are getting continuously plowed under.
I remember when we had a REAL O-Line that gave our RB (Shaun Alexander) some REAL open turf to exploit.
Alexander was MONEY in the Red Zone....Marshawn Lynch should be every bit as prolific as his pred., if Our O-Line we have now was All That it was designed to be.
God I miss Big Walt and that 2005 O-Line

 

[HawkFan72]

I think this red zone ranking is deceiving.

First off, the difference between 2014's RZ rate and 2013's is less than 2%.

Yes, but do you remember how stagnant the Offense was over the final few games last year? We were complaining about the Red Zone Offense last year too. And we lost 2 of our final 4 mostly because of the Offense's struggles.

So just because the percentage is similar to last year does not mean everything is OK.

 

[brimsalabim]

Our Oline isn't all it was designed to be? Heck it's not even "who" it was designed to be. I agree with the poster who brought up our tendencies to get penalized back out of the Redzone more than other teams and also the effect our collection of backups and backups to those backups is having on play selection and protections. Our offense was already pretty base before we lost plays.

 

[onanygivensunday]

The one genuinely troubling aspect of our RZ offense is the OL penalties. I would guess that when Seattle blows it in the RZ, more often than not it's because the OL backed them up into 3rd and long situations.

This is where my mind immediately went.

Penalties in the RZ are killer and we've got some knuckleheads on our O-line... Okung and Carp come immediately to mind.

And I'll add that there is nothing wrong... read, it's absolutely okay... to get the ball to Marshawn on the fringe and let him find his way to the EZ.

 

[Scottemojo]

Our red zone problems are myriad, and is a place that has been lacking since losing Rice. Zach is the only thing we have resembling a post up player, and he is out.

Penalties.
An area of the field where play action can lose effectiveness.
Smaller targets who struggle to get off press.
A dismal fullback situation.

 

[AgentDib]

The lack of a tall target probably holds Seattle back some as well. Imagine where Denver would be if they didn't have Julius and Demaryius. Or San Diego without Antonio Gates.

I agree with 95% of your post. I'm not so sure about the lack of tall targets. Luke Willson is 6'5 and Cooper Helfet is 6'4.

Would you agree if it was amended to "tall target who can reliably catch a pass"? I like Willson and I hope he succeeds here, but there is a reason why we apparently tried to trade Harvin for every big target we thought might be available. Willson isn't getting the job done. I hope that changes tomorrow.

 

[hawknation2014]

The lack of a tall target probably holds Seattle back some as well. Imagine where Denver would be if they didn't have Julius and Demaryius. Or San Diego without Antonio Gates.

I agree with 95% of your post. I'm not so sure about the lack of tall targets. Luke Willson is 6'5 and Cooper Helfet is 6'4.

Would you agree if it was amended to "tall target who can reliably catch a pass"? I like Willson and I hope he succeeds here, but there is a reason why we apparently tried to trade Harvin for every big target we thought might be available. Willson isn't getting the job done. I hope that changes tomorrow.

I was fooled into believing Willson could be our big red zone target this year. Unfortunately, he hasn't learned how to catch the football yet with any reliability. He has a drop rate of over 27%.

 

[kearly]

A dismal fullback situation.

Oddly enough, it hasn't really stopped Lynch from finding the endzone. Stud.

 

[kearly]

Yes, but do you remember how stagnant the Offense was over the final few games last year? We were complaining about the Red Zone Offense last year too. And we lost 2 of our final 4 mostly because of the Offense's struggles.

So just because the percentage is similar to last year does not mean everything is OK.

Everything is OK.

Our offense was top 10 last year in DVOA, points per drive, points per play, etc. And this was all despite Seattle having one of the nastiest schedules in the NFL last year, lots of 'fist fight' type games where the game situations demanded conservative playcalls.

Even with some of the issues Seattle has, it feels like they are the best RZ team in the NFL during the last two minutes of a half.

Wilson had at least three RZ TD passes he missed just in the last two games. Actually, one was a drop by Lynch, but three plays total. There was also a drop by Willson at the 1 yard line that could have potentially scored. The oddity of those two games artificially tanks Seattle's RZ number for 2014.

Would be nice to improve some in the RZ. But Seattle knows that, which is why we heard stories about them targeting TEs and Big WRs in trade talks. And that's how I see it, an area for improvement, but not something that is costing Seattle games.

 

[chet380]

It seems unfortunate that the 6 ft 5 in. Matthews was not given at least a "look-see" in the Red Zone Off.