Russ benched

Ozzy

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Sherman is on the NFLPA's executive board. I would expect him to side with Russell, given how the Broncos handled the contract situation. Does he think Russ gives the Broncos the best chance to win, though? Because ultimately, that's what all these ex-players coming to Russell's defense are running up against. If Stidham plays well, they can be critical of how the Broncos handled the situation, but Payton will have ultimately done the right thing in a difficult situation.
I would be shocked if anyone thinks Stidham is going to be better than what Russ was this year. I doubt any player believes that in fact many have stated how productive he’s been. I kind of like Stidham tho in limited action so who knows
 

12AngryHawks

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I would be shocked if anyone thinks Stidham is going to be better than what Russ was this year. I doubt any player believes that in fact many have stated how productive he’s been. I kind of like Stidham tho in limited action so who knows
At this point, I think all Payton is looking for, is a QB who'll do what he's told & not try to override his authority.
 

knownone

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I would be shocked if anyone thinks Stidham is going to be better than what Russ was this year. I doubt any player believes that in fact many have stated how productive he’s been. I kind of like Stidham tho in limited action so who knows
It depends on how we evaluate Russell's season. It's unlikely Stidham matches Russell's TD/Int numbers, but it would not shock me if he leads a more efficient offense. Better overall efficiency could translate to more wins for the Broncos. And unfortunately for Russ, he's 11-19 as a starter with Denver, so he doesn't have a track record to fall back on with that group of guys.

In many ways, it's similar to Geno taking over for Russ last year. Many people expected the offense and team to take a major step backward, but they didn't. Instead, the offense got more efficient down-to-down. And the marginal value Russ added wasn't worth his cap hit relative to Geno. The same could be true of Stidham. If he's a .500 QB, it doesn't matter if his stats are in the same ballpark as Russell's; Payton will be right if the team performs at (or above) its current level.
 

OrangeGravy

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If he leaves on or before Jun 1 2024 all of the $85M cap hit will accelerate into 2024. They could move him after Jun 1 2024, but that would result in his $37M salary for 2025 becoming fully guaranteed.
They can release him before that and "designate" it post June 1 to split the dead cap over 24/25
 

OrangeGravy

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Sherman is on the NFLPA's executive board. I would expect him to side with Russell, given how the Broncos handled the contract situation. Does he think Russ gives the Broncos the best chance to win, though? Because ultimately, that's what all these ex-players coming to Russell's defense are running up against. If Stidham plays well, they can be critical of how the Broncos handled the situation, but Payton will have ultimately done the right thing in a difficult situation.
Sherman is on the NFLPA's executive board. I would expect him to side with Russell, given how the Broncos handled the contract situation. Does he think Russ gives the Broncos the best chance to win, though? Because ultimately, that's what all these ex-players coming to Russell's defense are running up against. If Stidham plays well, they can be critical of how the Broncos handled the situation, but Payton will have ultimately done the right thing in a difficult situation.
Ex-players are understandably sensitive to the front office vs player contract scenario. They're all latching onto the threat angle, which I doubt was delivered as a threat, but even if it was--it isn't a violation of any kind and happens every year around the league
 

12AngryHawks

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Where do you get that the problem was Russ trying to override Payton?

He just can't run the plays.
I think Wilson improvises too much for Payton's liking. Wilson can't run the plays SP draws up, but part of me thinks Wilson isn't trying to run the plays either. I think that's more of the reason why Payton yells at Russ so often. That's just my speculation.
 

IndyHawk

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See a lot on Me3's contract and TBH everyone is all over lol.
I happened to see this and this Denver fan put a lot of time
on it.
Perhaps it clears the confusion of it?

 

keasley45

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I think Wilson improvises too much for Payton's liking. Wilson can't run the plays SP draws up, but part of me thinks Wilson isn't trying to run the plays either. I think that's more of the reason why Payton yells at Russ so often. That's just my speculation.
It would make no sense for Wilson to nit try to run the plays. When he was in Seattle, he complained that the offense was too bland. Then we got Waldron who runs the stuff we do now (Russ wholesale rejected Waldrons playbook). And the whole time, Wilson had insinuated that he'd love to play for Sean because of the offensive genius he is.

So it would be nonsensical for Russ to complain about what he was running, mention Payton by name as someone he'd like to play for because of what he did as a playcaller, and then reject his plays... so he can go back to running what he did all along in Seattle?

Wilson can't run them. What shows on tape over and over and over again is an inability to make quick reads, progressions from the pocket, get the ball out quickly and with anticipation. All of these things are required in Paytons offense. What he's doing is foregoing the actual progressions and quick throws and either buying time and holding the ball, in which case the designed play is dead, or he's doing almost the equivalent in surrendering the play and just taking the checkdown.
 

flv2

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They can release him before that and "designate" it post June 1 to split the dead cap over 24/25
I stand corrected. A Post Jun 1 cut designation apparently stops future guarantees from kicking in between the date its announced and the actual Jun 1 date. I thought the Broncos couldn't use the Jun 1 designation because Wilson's 2025 salary would become guaranteed. I was wrong.
 

toffee

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I would be shocked if anyone thinks Stidham is going to be better than what Russ was this year. I doubt any player believes that in fact many have stated how productive he’s been. I kind of like Stidham tho in limited action so who knows

For entertainment and dramas, it would be intriguing to see Studham suffer multiple INTs, then have to leave the game after gotten dinked up, and his backup got injured too a few plays later.
 

Maelstrom787

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Crazy to think a QB with better numbers than Geno is being benched right?
This is why numbers are dangerous with this sport. They don't tell the full story. There's no "times he refused to throw the ball to an open receiver to escape an imaginary pass rusher" statistic, or "amount of organizational doom caused" statistic. We can only condense so much into one easily-tracked number when it comes to football.
 

pittpnthrs

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This is why numbers are dangerous with this sport. They don't tell the full story. There's no "times he refused to throw the ball to an open receiver to escape an imaginary pass rusher" statistic, or "amount of organizational doom caused" statistic. We can only condense so much into one easily-tracked number when it comes to football.

I agree there's always context, but available stats are all we have to go by. By goodness if the the numbers were reversed, you can bet people on this board would be throwing them out there all over the place.
 

Maelstrom787

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I agree there's always context, but available stats are all we have to go by. By goodness if the the numbers were reversed, you can bet people on this board would be throwing them out there all over the place.
No argument there, heh. Guilty.

It'll be a hell of a lot better for Russ when he's playing for a team committing very little money to him (due to the offset language in his current contract).
 

keasley45

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I would be shocked if anyone thinks Stidham is going to be better than what Russ was this year. I doubt any player believes that in fact many have stated how productive he’s been. I kind of like Stidham tho in limited action so who knows
You'd believe he can run the offense better if you watched him in preseason. He didn't light things up (it was preseason), but in some of his last series, he showed that he's got something different than Russ... in a way that Payton will likely embrace.
 

keasley45

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Crazy to think a QB with better numbers than Geno is being benched right?

That depends on what stats you are looking at because most stats that reflect the performance of the offense under Russ are bottom 6 to 8 in the league. But Russ and Roger's aren't going to post thise. They'll just let the media run with the conspiracy theory so that Russ can land softly in his next starting spot where this whole deal can play out all over again.
 

Ozzy

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meh it feels like everyone cherry picks this to fit their narrative. Sure in volume stats Denver is low. efficiency stats they’re much higher. I think Russ and Geno are very close in EPA. He’s also made some incredible touchdowns, Game winning drives(as has Geno too) and his EPA actually goes up late in games which could point to a play calling early in games and matches the eye test too. He will never run a conventional offense that is true, and Stidham will do better in this regard. But this is always painted as a massive flaw of Wilson’s by default which is odd. Lamar won’t either but most love his game. Kap didn’t either but he was good enough to get to a SB. Vick didn’t, Cam didn’t, Hurts etc.

You said “‘Most stats that show perfamnce are bottom 6-8 which isn’t true. The ones you’ve decided do that guy that’s subjective and anything that doesn’t fit that narrative is discarded like passer rating, EPA, TD/Int numbers etc. how about points per game? Denver is higher than Seattle.

Again not trying to be snarky and I enjoy your thoughts on this topic but I think we’re all a little guilty of cherry picking stats to support our priors.
 
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