Russ benched

Maelstrom787

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Griff has been very complimentary of Wilson and has talked extensively about how good he was in Seattle. He also just said this past week that Russ still does a lot of stuff very well and what Payton is doing seems weird as we saw in the 4th quarter when Wilson had 2 touchdowns. I’ll say it again with full confidence every guy we listed would agree. Wilson was a special player in Seattle. No one disputes that outside of Seahawk fans who are pissed at him




I don't think Griff has been as complimentary of Russ as we think. He just doesn't hate on him as much, which I do because of the way he went out rather than his overall caliber. Seems like Griff is pretty realistic about Russell's ceiling and limits, which are fairly severe in the context of being able to do varied things on offense. As he says, even with an optimized Russell, your pass games ceiling is hamstrung.
 

Ozzy

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I don't think Griff has been as complimentary of Russ as we think. He just doesn't hate on him as much, which I do because of the way he went out rather than his overall caliber. Seems like Griff is pretty realistic about Russell's ceiling and limits, which are fairly severe in the context of being able to do varied things on offense. As he says, even with an optimized Russell, your pass games ceiling is hamstrung.

You’re cherry picking. He’s posted a ton about Russ including his time in Seattle. Of course Russ isn’t the same guy at 35. His athleticism is what made him great and he doesn’t have that any more, that’s not a blanket statement for how Griff(who I’ve exchanged thoughts on Russ many times so I know what he thinks) views him. This is what baffles me, I mention that Russ was a monster while here, people claim they don’t dispute that while they continue to dispute it. Is it possible your acknowledged hate blinds you a little bit on Russ?

I think Russ was incredible in Seattle, you apparently don’t and that’s fine. Let’s leave it at that.
 

GemCity

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I don't care, I feel bad for Russ, he led us to our only SB win, we had a great 10 year run. Yeah, he couldn't pay for his ego, but still it's rather sad to see him fall like this.
Man…I used to act with dignity.

I’m at odds with my former self.

Let me collect my thoughts here…..

F all that! I hope Ciara divorces him next and he loses all his money in a Ponzi scheme.
 

Maelstrom787

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You’re cherry picking. He’s posted a ton about Russ including his time in Seattle. Of course Russ isn’t the same guy at 35. His athleticism is what made him great and he doesn’t have that any more, that’s not a blanket statement for how Griff(who I’ve exchanged thoughts on Russ many times so I know what he thinks) views him. This is what baffles me, I mention that Russ was a monster while here, people claim they don’t dispute that while they continue to dispute it. Is it possible your acknowledged hate blinds you a little bit on Russ?

I think Russ was incredible in Seattle, you apparently don’t and that’s fine. Let’s leave it at that.
I think we're bastardizing what I'm arguing here a bit. Young Russ is perhaps my all-time favorite quarterback. I'm not saying he was not big-time for us at points in his career here. We were talking about the current numbers matching the tape/matching his current caliber, and I think they're misleading as to where Russ is capable of getting a team these days.

I'm just arguing as to what Griff being complimentary towards Russ means in terms of an endorsement of his current ability.
 

cymatica

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I don't care, I feel bad for Russ, he led us to our only SB win, we had a great 10 year run. Yeah, he couldn't pay for his ego, but still it's rather sad to see him fall like this.
I don't feel bad for any professional athlete making tens of millions per year to play a game. So his ego took a hit, whoopty doo, he's set for life. He wanted the celebrity lifestyle, he got it with all the pros and cons
 

Welshers2

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Russ is now on Twitter liking tweets trashing the Broncos! Lmfao!!! Another bad breakup for Russ. What's the common denominator here? No one likes him everywhere he goes
 

LastRideOut

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Russ is now on Twitter liking tweets trashing the Broncos! Lmfao!!! Another bad breakup for Russ. What's the common denominator here? No one likes him everywhere he goes
Which says a lot, and vindicates those who said Russ was a me first type of person.


The folks over at the bronco forums noticed Russ liking tweets trashing the broncos as well.

So, yeah. Russ is who he is.
 

Ozzy

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I think we're bastardizing what I'm arguing here a bit. Young Russ is perhaps my all-time favorite quarterback. I'm not saying he was not big-time for us at points in his career here. We were talking about the current numbers matching the tape/matching his current caliber, and I think they're misleading as to where Russ is capable of getting a team these days.

I'm just arguing as to what Griff being complimentary towards Russ means in terms of an endorsement of his current ability.
I just did a Murphy search and he called Russ Elite while in Seattle. Not sure how we can claim he didn’t think Wilson is a stud.
I talked with Griff a couple of weeks ago where he said Wilson could be doing much more if they allowed him so painting the idea that Murph thinks Wilson is bad(it seems to be implied) is misleading to me. Maybe I’m misreading it.


Well again he’s 35 so of course he’s not the same player, but to be fair to him you can’t put up numbers that good and be flat out bad. It’s never happened in the nfl and if someone is claiming he’s way worse than his numbers indicate it’s fairly obvious they’re biased. I’m also not sure how you could watch that last Denver game and not blame Payton a little if you truly are objective(Murphy did). It was some really strange play calling and then when they were forced to call a normal offense Russ responded with two touchdowns. I had a buddy who hates Russ tweet at me during the game saying exactly that….Russ looked good when Payton handcuffed him and he hates Wilson more than the biggest Wilson hater on the forum lol.

That’s all I’m asking for. Almost no one who leans critically at Russ is mentioning anything other than everything negative. It’s outing them as not being objective.

I’m typing this on my phone while in the bath(flame away) so I could me misreading a ton of stuff.
 

keasley45

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I just did a Murphy search and he called Russ Elite while in Seattle. Not sure how we can claim he didn’t think Wilson is a stud.
I talked with Griff a couple of weeks ago where he said Wilson could be doing much more if they allowed him so painting the idea that Murph thinks Wilson is bad(it seems to be implied) is misleading to me. Maybe I’m misreading it.


Well again he’s 35 so of course he’s not the same player, but to be fair to him you can’t put up numbers that good and be flat out bad. It’s never happened in the nfl and if someone is claiming he’s way worse than his numbers indicate it’s fairly obvious they’re biased. I’m also not sure how you could watch that last Denver game and not blame Payton a little if you truly are objective(Murphy did). It was some really strange play calling and then when they were forced to call a normal offense Russ responded with two touchdowns. I had a buddy who hates Russ tweet at me during the game saying exactly that….Russ looked good when Payton handcuffed him and he hates Wilson more than the biggest Wilson hater on the forum lol.

That’s all I’m asking for. Almost no one who leans critically at Russ is mentioning anything other than everything negative. It’s outing them as not being objective.

I’m typing this on my phone while in the bath(flame away) so I could me misreading a ton of stuff.

The issue with this take is that when you look critically at Russ, you do so to figure out WHY, when his stats are so good, EVERY offense he's been in seems to play well for a period and then lose its steam. Why EVERYTIME he's had success, that success wanes in the playoffs. Why HE ALWAYS has a horrid offensive line, never uses the TE, can't seem to get the ball out quickly etc etc etc. Why he can have a game where his passer rating is > 100, but his performance on the field was unanimously bad ( I use his game agaisnt the Commanders in 2021 as an example - 111 passer rating and he literally looked horrible until the last drive, when he just played sandlot down the field and almost tied the game).

The investigation BEGINS with these questions. What he does well is taken as a given because its just that. So inherently then, the criticism HAS to look at things OTHER THAN the positives.

I used the Formula 1 racing analogy a few months ago. If a car is fastest at the track in 5 pretty significant categories, but still can't win a race, then it has to be some aspect of auto performance that it's not functioning well in. Slow in turns, poor stability, etc.

To NOT look deeper than what the car is doing well to figure out why it is losing makes no sense at all and looks like just passing fault for everything bad that happens around it to other factors and choosing to only see what it does well and use that as the bar for greatness.

True, objective critics of the guy already know he's great at all of the things he's great at. Some have just chosen to (or had access to coaches tape which make it easy) look at other factors in performance that have ALWAYS been bad with Russell - things that you can objectively trace back to at least 2017 with available game film and acknowledge that those things are part of his reality as well - AND contribute to his and his teams ultimate failure.

So I get the frustration at thinking people just hate on the guy.

But from where I sit, the UNWILLINGNESS to entertain any narrative that dares level criticism at the dude because he had some great statistical years here and was always in on some ridiculous highlight reel play or dramatic comeback win, is just turning a blind eye and wanting to see him as a hero because he did heroic things.

This issue has never been his inability to do heroic things. He made his game about HAVING to do heroic things. He's like playing pool with a guy that makes EVERY shot a trick shot, when sometimes all he has to do is line up behind the ball and knock it in.

Russ could make the trick shot 80% of the time. Until the complexity of the shot became too difficult (in the playoffs). And defenses knew that if they just made him do the easy things, he'd fail.

It's why folks were frustrated with him in Seattle. It's why he got benched by Payton. Payton flat out said in the last game when a reporter asked him if he was pleased at how the offense was able to score on their comeback drive.

He answered that it came from a bunch of empty set formations and ultimately playing like that wasn't sustainable, so no.

^^^^^^ THAT'S the truth that has ALWAYS been. It's never been disputed that Russ could make up stuff on his own and look good. He just always struggled to do the things that could make him and whatever team he played for consistently capable of winning beyond the early rounds of the playoffs. And after 2020, when defenses began to take away the deep game he was best at, his entire game began to suffer.

But I understand the difficulty of seeing how his faults can ultimately have been his own undoing. I mean EVERYBODY at the billiards hall stands around the table where the guy is doing all the jump shots, behind the back shots, curve shots, triple banks, etc. And they all assume because he can do that, that he can do the simple things as well. That he's one of the best at what he does.

Russ is the odd case of the guy who could amaze with his ability to succeed when success looked improbable. But couldn't maintain success when it should have been much easier. He forced the trick shot when he didn't have to and folks believed him to be a superstar for how often he actually succeeded. And refused to believe he couldn't just sink the eight ball straight in the corner pocket. But Payton, for 15 weeks FORCED HIM to do that and didn't like what he saw.

It's simple.

His critics didn't care that he made a career on trick shots and pointed to how often he missed the easy ones.

His fans defended him claiming that if you can make the impossible shots, that of course you can make the easy ones and rationalized the difficulty of the shot being the fault of others MAKING it so.
 
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