Russell Wilson is Elite | I'm Putting the Nail in the Coffin

[Sox-n-Hawks]

Brady is 41...the previous 2 years he was ranked 5th and 7th.

Wow with that kind on inconsistency he must be awful. I bet he’s never even been to a playoff game.

:stirthepot:

FYI Brady's 6th year in the league.... He posted a 61.3% completion rate.... 4% less than RW at the same stage in his career.

That's cool. Brady has also thrown for 50 TDs in a single season.

As long as there's a running game the wins should continue. But when the running game faulters, and the games on Wilson's shoulders, that "elite" play disappears and the excuses roll in.

I don’t think you got the memo. We’re running the ball. Passing yards is less relevant. And you say “when the running game faulters, and the games on Wilson's shoulders, that "elite" play disappears and the excuses roll in”... Obviously, you must of missed the game against the Panthers this past weekend. Please go watch it.

He also realizes to recognize that Russ is crushing Brady’s numbers by the same point in his career.

Heck, Brady's 7th year in the league (which would be next year for russ) Was the first time he threw for over 28TDs. Then ole Brady threw for 50, won 16 regular season games and lost the Superbowl. To Eli. Wow that Brady guy sucks! So inconsistent.

 

[Tical21]

Russ isn't Brees and Brady. He just isn't. It is a little absurd to suggest that he is. I'll gladly sit down and watch a game or film with anyone who believes otherwise. He's somewhere in that next group with Rivers, Goff, Mahomes, Ben, etc. If stating this offends anyone, and makes me a hater, I can live with that.

 

[Seymour]

Russ isn't Brees and Brady. He just isn't. It is a little absurd to suggest that he is. I'll gladly sit down and watch a game or film with anyone who believes otherwise. He's somewhere in that next group with Rivers, Goff, Mahomes, Ben, etc. If stating this offends anyone, and makes me a hater, I can live with that.

I'm not offended. I just have no respect for your opinion about QB play and talent evaluation.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Russ isn't Brees and Brady. He just isn't. It is a little absurd to suggest that he is. I'll gladly sit down and watch a game or film with anyone who believes otherwise. He's somewhere in that next group with Rivers, Goff, Mahomes, Ben, etc. If stating this offends anyone, and makes me a hater, I can live with that.

Well, Brees and Brady aren't even on the same level. Brady has five rings and singlehandedly keeps his team in the playoff conversation every year despite how up and down the rest of his team is. Running game or no, defense or no, the Patriots are always in the race. You can't say that about the Saints. Or the Packers, or the Chargers.

 

[Seymour]

Russ isn't Brees and Brady. He just isn't. It is a little absurd to suggest that he is. I'll gladly sit down and watch a game or film with anyone who believes otherwise. He's somewhere in that next group with Rivers, Goff, Mahomes, Ben, etc. If stating this offends anyone, and makes me a hater, I can live with that.

Well, Brees and Brady aren't even on the same level. Brady has five rings and singlehandedly keeps his team in the playoff conversation every year despite how up and down the rest of his team is. Running game or no, defense or no, the Patriots are always in the race. You can't say that about the Saints. Or the Packers, or the Chargers.

Exactly. Brees isnt' Brady
Rodgers isn't Brady
Brees isn't Rodgers
Wilson isn't Brees
......ect ect ect.

What does all that mean?

Nothing, because nobody is Belichick either. :roll:

 

[Sgt Largent]

Russ isn't Brees and Brady. He just isn't. It is a little absurd to suggest that he is. I'll gladly sit down and watch a game or film with anyone who believes otherwise. He's somewhere in that next group with Rivers, Goff, Mahomes, Ben, etc. If stating this offends anyone, and makes me a hater, I can live with that.

I can sympathize with your perception and "eye test" evaluation. I think what the numbers don't show is the WAY he plays his game/gets his numbers.

Wilson throws to bodies. Some of the better "Eye Test" QB's (Brady, Brees et al) mix these types of throws with generous helpings of "Spot Throws". In other words, recognizing coverage/matchup deficiencies and throwing with anticipation to the coverage weakness areas independent of visible confirmation of a receivers "openness". It's that Peyton Manning in his prime wizardry that is really beautiful to watch. This is not a foolproof way to play the position though. There are pros and cons to anything you could possibly do on a football field. Pro: sacks go down Con: Interceptions can go up unless you are a complete Master in this style of play.

Now Wilson. He rarely plays this way. I think for three reasons:

1) He has more direct control of ball security if he verifies the risk before release. i.e. His aversion to risk.

2) His superior athleticism throughout his entire career has meant he did not need to add risk with this type of play when he could buy obscene amounts of time to wait for visual confirmation, or if worse comes to worse, leg it out for the easy 1st down.

3) Due to #2 above, His coaches throughout his career have been fine with it, why change a perfectly good tire that's humming right along.

The toughest thing for people to accept is non traditional success. Victories will be minimized. Failures will be accentuated.

Wilson is one of the best QBs in the league. I pray that as he continues to mature, we put coaches around him that help him accept and perfect new ways to torch his foes week in and week out.

P.S. Ben is a prime example of a "Spot Thrower Journeyman". I wouldn't enjoy watching that on my favorite club.

 

[Seymour]

......Wilson throws to bodies. Some of the better "Eye Test" QB's (Brady, Brees et al) mix these types of throws with generous helpings of "Spot Throws".

Now we are getting to the root of the difference between you and others. Russ doesn't pass your eye test for one reason only....Too Short. :roll:

Russ doesn't throw to spots now? :lol:
Pure BS. He does this every single game. There are several routes that the ball has to come out before the receiver makes his final cut. Don't go there please... :177692:

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

Russ isn't Brees and Brady. He just isn't. It is a little absurd to suggest that he is. I'll gladly sit down and watch a game or film with anyone who believes otherwise. He's somewhere in that next group with Rivers, Goff, Mahomes, Ben, etc. If stating this offends anyone, and makes me a hater, I can live with that.

Everyone said the same thing after Montana retired too. Brady certainly wasn’t the “next great thing” If you said this 7th round QB in New England would become more what he is, you’d have been laughed at.

RWs body of work by year 6 is better than Brady’s was. That’s saying something.

Russ is a badass. The only time I had a bad feeling about him was after his knee injury, his stubbornness scared me. He has 12 more years before you can say he “isn’t Brees or Brady.” Good luck with that.

 

[Seymour]

Fair enough and I agree with all the ones you are listing..The main problem I have
with RW at this point is that monster contract coming.

I won't get into that till after the season.I want us in the playoffs and want him to be good.

You want and possibly even expect Wilson to be good, yet don't want to pay him?

Too short to get a full valued salary, correct?

 

[Sgt Largent]

......Wilson throws to bodies. Some of the better "Eye Test" QB's (Brady, Brees et al) mix these types of throws with generous helpings of "Spot Throws".

Now we are getting to the root of the difference between you and others. Russ doesn't pass your eye test for one reason only....Too Short. :roll:

Russ doesn't throw to spots now? :lol:
Pure BS. He does this every single game. There are several routes that the ball has to come out before the receiver makes his final cut. Don't go there please... :177692:

LOL, there are two Sgt(.) Largents. This was my 1st post in the thread and my argument encompassed WAY MORE than one sentence. Try objectively reading an entire post instead of quote hunting to counterrattack.

My argument agrees with the 1st tier QB camp but attempted to explain why it seems disconcerting to some. How different it looks (THE EYE) to the traditional style.

Nowhere in my post do I even hint at his size playing any role at all. I'm sure that was a bullet you already chambered for the "other SGT" and just started wildly pulling the trigger when you saw the posters name.

..and to your "He does every single game, BS" comment. This is ANALYSIS. They ALL DO SOME OF EVERYTHING EVERY SINGLE GAME because "real world" doesn't play out like theory. Wilson's game is not predicated on timing throws, period. Call BS if you want, it's more than a handful of throws a game. It's the way it's coached and practiced and executed day in and day out. Not a knock on Wilson. It's a different philosophy (not better or worse) that has as much to do with having a Defensive Head Coach as opposed to a Peyton who stops practice for the minutiae required to be highly proficient at it...

 

[Seymour]

LMAO....Woops, my mistake....wrong Sarge. Oh well, still not buying the eye test knock though.

 

[Sgt Largent]

Let me use a real world example for you Seymour. Wilson's pick 6 against the Chargers was a "timing route"....And I blame Baldwin as much as anyone.

1st off, I hate this short side route combo because it stacks two defenders in the area making the read much tougher. But the real problem was the absolutely LAZY route by Baldwin. He does get an inside release, which is what you would coach here because you need to flip the hips of the inside defender to the center of the field to prevent the route from being jumped like we all witnessed.

The problem is he came off the ball so slow and nonchalant that the defender didn't have to turn and run AT ALL. Baldwin has to come off fast with an inside press to the safety and that's an easy completion.

Sean Payton would have gone ballistic witnessing that on film or in practice. Practice would be halted, concepts and schemes and footwork and all kinds of ticky tack (but important) stuff would be revisited.

Not unlike what happens much more often on our field when the defense flubs a concept. Do you think it is a coincidence that the Saints have sported some historically bad defenses, and us with our offensive consistency (last year especially). Why are people surprised our defense is farther ahead than anyone thought? Because we coach it the same way Payton coaches his Offense....

 

[Sgt Largent]

LMAO....Woops, my mistake....wrong Sarge. Oh well, still not buying the eye test knock though.

What's there to "buy". I'm not calling it good or bad. What I'm saying is...

It's human nature to find fault with unconventional success. Some people handle this information better than others.

Prisco (not good, neanderthal like in fact)

Cowerd (much better, Renaissance 'esque almost)

 

[Seahawkfan80]

Outstanding post. It's just odd that we don't see comparisons like that with other QB's. But I don't follow other fan bases, so maybe they are complaining about their QB as well. But there's no way in hell it's near the level that Russ gets. It is what it is, and it likely will never change. He'll just keep balling and the team will keep winning.

Actually I am usually on chat with another fan base on the weekends as it is something to do. They are having issues with their QB and other points of the Offense...and their Defense. And one of the QBs in this thread is theirs.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

Let me use a real world example for you Seymour. Wilson's pick 6 against the Chargers was a "timing route"....And I blame Baldwin as much as anyone.

1st off, I hate this short side route combo because it stacks two defenders in the area making the read much tougher. But the real problem was the absolutely LAZY route by Baldwin. He does get an inside release, which is what you would coach here because you need to flip the hips of the inside defender to the center of the field to prevent the route from being jumped like we all witnessed.

The problem is he came off the ball so slow and nonchalant that the defender didn't have to turn and run AT ALL. Baldwin has to come off fast with an inside press to the safety and that's an easy completion.

Sean Payton would have gone ballistic witnessing that on film or in practice. Practice would be halted, concepts and schemes and footwork and all kinds of ticky tack (but important) stuff would be revisited.

Not unlike what happens much more often on our field when the defense flubs a concept. Do you think it is a coincidence that the Saints have sported some historically bad defenses, and us with our offensive consistency (last year especially). Why are people surprised our defense is farther ahead than anyone thought? Because we coach it the same way Payton coaches his Offense....

That was only the third pick six thrown in his career. 3 in 6 years... sounds consistent to me. Here's a video of the Wilson pick six vs the Chargers. And a 4 minute video of 6 years worth of pick sixes from another elite QB. And another video showing another elite QB throwing a pick 6 on nearly the same play call to the flat. Wow... such terrible play. They must not be elite.


[youtube]8CsHoyoLp3s[/youtube]

[youtube]NK9LmES3kWg[/youtube]

[youtube]AyXI96_btO0[/youtube]

 

[mrt144]

"I wish RW was GOAT before even the GOAT was a GOAT. Why isn't he pacing faster than the GOAT? He'll never sniff GOAT if he doesn't outplay the GOAT sooner than the current GOAT was outplaying the previous GOAT"

This is how some of these arguments against Wilson are coming off. It's all very confusing. I mean it's one thing to wish someone could play at the level of the seemingly peerless right now cause it'd solve a lot of 'issues' but to ding a dude for not playing like someone with a whole decade's worth more experience and especially being in the GOAT convo?

That's a tough standard bordering on lunacy.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

"I wish RW was GOAT before even the GOAT was a GOAT. Why isn't he pacing faster than the GOAT? He'll never sniff GOAT if he doesn't outplay the GOAT sooner than the current GOAT was outplaying the previous GOAT"

This is how some of these arguments against Wilson are coming off. It's all very confusing. I mean it's one thing to wish someone could play at the level of the seemingly peerless right now cause it'd solve a lot of 'issues' but to ding a dude for not playing like someone with a whole decade's worth more experience and especially being in the GOAT convo?

That's a tough standard bordering on lunacy.

I like your style

 

[Sgt Largent]

Ok... I don't even know what to say at this point. I broke down why that play was NOT NECESSARILY RUSSELL'S FAULT AS MUCH AS SOME WOULD THINK, and am squarely in the Russ is a 1st tier QB camp....

DO PEOPLE JUST LOOK AT SCREEN NAMES AND START FROTHING AT THE MOUTH WITHOUT ACTUALLY READING THE @#$ POST?

Are we all just arguing with the bad angry man in the mirror or is the idea to actually engage with others.

THERE IS MORE THAN ONE SGT IN THE SEAHAWKS ARMY PEOPLE!!!!

 

[rcaido]

Ok... I don't even know what to say at this point. I broke down why that play was NOT NECESSARILY RUSSELL'S FAULT AS MUCH AS SOME WOULD THINK, and am squarely in the Russ is a 1st tier QB camp....

DO PEOPLE JUST LOOK AT SCREEN NAMES AND START FROTHING AT THE MOUTH WITHOUT ACTUALLY READING THE @#$ POST?

Are we all just arguing with the bad angry man in the mirror or is the idea to actually engage with others.

THERE IS MORE THAN ONE SGT IN THE SEAHAWKS ARMY PEOPLE!!!!

You should change your name...Dont want to be associated with the other dude.

 

[Seymour]

Ok... I don't even know what to say at this point. I broke down why that play was NOT NECESSARILY RUSSELL'S FAULT AS MUCH AS SOME WOULD THINK, and am squarely in the Russ is a 1st tier QB camp....

DO PEOPLE JUST LOOK AT SCREEN NAMES AND START FROTHING AT THE MOUTH WITHOUT ACTUALLY READING THE @#$ POST?

Are we all just arguing with the bad angry man in the mirror or is the idea to actually engage with others.

THERE IS MORE THAN ONE SGT IN THE SEAHAWKS ARMY PEOPLE!!!!

Not if we promote you to Lieutenant!!! :2thumbs: 8)

Please update your user name Lieutenant Largent!! :irishdrinkers: