Russell Wilson is Elite | I'm Putting the Nail in the Coffin

[Sgt Largent]

Ok... I don't even know what to say at this point. I broke down why that play was NOT NECESSARILY RUSSELL'S FAULT AS MUCH AS SOME WOULD THINK, and am squarely in the Russ is a 1st tier QB camp....

DO PEOPLE JUST LOOK AT SCREEN NAMES AND START FROTHING AT THE MOUTH WITHOUT ACTUALLY READING THE @#$ POST?

Are we all just arguing with the bad angry man in the mirror or is the idea to actually engage with others.

THERE IS MORE THAN ONE SGT IN THE SEAHAWKS ARMY PEOPLE!!!!

You should change your name...Dont want to be associated with the other dude.

Content should be what matters.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

Ok... I don't even know what to say at this point. I broke down why that play was NOT NECESSARILY RUSSELL'S FAULT AS MUCH AS SOME WOULD THINK, and am squarely in the Russ is a 1st tier QB camp....

DO PEOPLE JUST LOOK AT SCREEN NAMES AND START FROTHING AT THE MOUTH WITHOUT ACTUALLY READING THE @#$ POST?

Are we all just arguing with the bad angry man in the mirror or is the idea to actually engage with others.

THERE IS MORE THAN ONE SGT IN THE SEAHAWKS ARMY PEOPLE!!!!

Not if we promote you to Lieutenant!!! :2thumbs: 8)

Please update your user name Lieutenant Largent!! :irishdrinkers:

Then you’ve gotta salute him

 

[Seymour]

Ok... I don't even know what to say at this point. I broke down why that play was NOT NECESSARILY RUSSELL'S FAULT AS MUCH AS SOME WOULD THINK, and am squarely in the Russ is a 1st tier QB camp....

DO PEOPLE JUST LOOK AT SCREEN NAMES AND START FROTHING AT THE MOUTH WITHOUT ACTUALLY READING THE @#$ POST?

Are we all just arguing with the bad angry man in the mirror or is the idea to actually engage with others.

THERE IS MORE THAN ONE SGT IN THE SEAHAWKS ARMY PEOPLE!!!!

Not if we promote you to Lieutenant!!! :2thumbs: 8)

Please update your user name Lieutenant Largent!! :irishdrinkers:

Then you’ve gotta salute him

Is just once a day OK?? :twisted:

 

[Sgt Largent]

Ok... I don't even know what to say at this point. I broke down why that play was NOT NECESSARILY RUSSELL'S FAULT AS MUCH AS SOME WOULD THINK, and am squarely in the Russ is a 1st tier QB camp....

DO PEOPLE JUST LOOK AT SCREEN NAMES AND START FROTHING AT THE MOUTH WITHOUT ACTUALLY READING THE @#$ POST?

Are we all just arguing with the bad angry man in the mirror or is the idea to actually engage with others.

THERE IS MORE THAN ONE SGT IN THE SEAHAWKS ARMY PEOPLE!!!!

Not if we promote you to Lieutenant!!! :2thumbs: 8)

Please update your user name Lieutenant Largent!! :irishdrinkers:

Then you’ve gotta salute him

Is just once a day OK?? :twisted:

Well I hit E5 in the Army reserves during college, then because I'm a moron I guess I hit E5 in the US Navy. So if we add that up, that's E10!!!!

Let's go with Command SGT Major Master Chief Largent

 

[Seymour]

Let me use a real world example for you Seymour. Wilson's pick 6 against the Chargers was a "timing route"....And I blame Baldwin as much as anyone.

1st off, I hate this short side route combo because it stacks two defenders in the area making the read much tougher. But the real problem was the absolutely LAZY route by Baldwin. He does get an inside release, which is what you would coach here because you need to flip the hips of the inside defender to the center of the field to prevent the route from being jumped like we all witnessed.

The problem is he came off the ball so slow and nonchalant that the defender didn't have to turn and run AT ALL. Baldwin has to come off fast with an inside press to the safety and that's an easy completion.

Sean Payton would have gone ballistic witnessing that on film or in practice. Practice would be halted, concepts and schemes and footwork and all kinds of ticky tack (but important) stuff would be revisited.

Not unlike what happens much more often on our field when the defense flubs a concept. Do you think it is a coincidence that the Saints have sported some historically bad defenses, and us with our offensive consistency (last year especially). Why are people surprised our defense is farther ahead than anyone thought? Because we coach it the same way Payton coaches his Offense....

Again I apologize for the user name error. We've gone round the block so many times on this I picked out a few words and ran with it. I understand more what you are saying now after slowing down and taking a moment.

Were good hopefully now........Lieutenant.

 

[Seymour]

Not if we promote you to Lieutenant!!! :2thumbs: 8)

Please update your user name Lieutenant Largent!! :irishdrinkers:

Then you’ve gotta salute him

Is just once a day OK?? :twisted:

Well I hit E5 in the Army reserves during college, then because I'm a moron I guess I hit E5 in the US Navy. So if we add that up, that's E10!!!!

Let's go with Command SGT Major Master Chief Largent

I will fail at that sir. I had a tough enough time spelling Lieutenant. Who the hell decided thats how it should be spelled......sir? :lol:

 

[Ad Hawk]

Then you’ve gotta salute him

Is just once a day OK?? :twisted:

Well I hit E5 in the Army reserves during college, then because I'm a moron I guess I hit E5 in the US Navy. So if we add that up, that's E10!!!!

Let's go with Command SGT Major Master Chief Largent

I will fail at that sir. I had a tough enough time spelling Lieutenant. Who the hell decided thats how it should be spelled......sir? :lol:

And why in the world does a kernal in the military have to be spelled with the letters COLONEL? It's just stupid.

And Russ is still a top QB in the league, even if the military cannot spell.

 

[Seymour]

Is just once a day OK?? :twisted:

Well I hit E5 in the Army reserves during college, then because I'm a moron I guess I hit E5 in the US Navy. So if we add that up, that's E10!!!!

Let's go with Command SGT Major Master Chief Largent

I will fail at that sir. I had a tough enough time spelling Lieutenant. Who the hell decided thats how it should be spelled......sir? :lol:

And why in the world does a kernal in the military have to be spelled with the letters COLONEL? It's just stupid.

And Russ is still a top QB in the league, even if the military cannot spell.

That is an easy one!! It came from the dude that invented fried chicken, and that's how he spelled it. :stirthepot:

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

Is just once a day OK?? :twisted:

Well I hit E5 in the Army reserves during college, then because I'm a moron I guess I hit E5 in the US Navy. So if we add that up, that's E10!!!!

Let's go with Command SGT Major Master Chief Largent

I will fail at that sir. I had a tough enough time spelling Lieutenant. Who the hell decided thats how it should be spelled......sir? :lol:

And why in the world does a kernal in the military have to be spelled with the letters COLONEL? It's just stupid.

And Russ is still a top QB in the league, even if the military cannot spell.

How about we make him a CWO and call him Ensign Junior Grade?

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

I'll just leave this here... Weird... those other guys on these lists must really suck. Go Russ! Go Seahawks! ALL IN.


[tweet]https://twitter.com/Pat_Thorman/status/1068159414702669828[/tweet]

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

And I'll leave this here.. After all it is the MANs 30th birthday!

Note the Two finger go ball signal to Moore pre-snap.


[tweet]https://twitter.com/hwkbgr/status/1067923923285745664[/tweet]

 

[scutterhawk]

Fair enough, prove to me that NFL Players don't see him as a top tier QB. That being said, I've beaten this dead horse enough. You will never think he's that great, and that's fine. Have a great day.

There in lies the rub..........."top tier" "elite"

These are vague subjective words and terms open to our own interpretations of what the word means. Of course everyone in the league thinks Russell's a "top tier" QB. Does that mean they think he's top 3? top 5? top 10? Where does the "elite" cutoff end?

Most leaguewide lists have Russell somewhere around 5-10. Is that elite? For some yes, for some no.

As a SGT., you should get the "Time In Grade" gig :lol:
If some folks are finding it difficult to bracket Wilson for his successes, they need only to look up his statistics, his Wins vs Losses, his TD's versus Interceptions, for the TIME THAT HE'S BEEN IN THE LEAGUE, and compare them to other ELITE Quarterbacks for their first 6 years or so, and voila, there you have it.
His detractors will never admit that they're wrong.

That's hard to do though because almost no quarterbacks had a Marshawn to help them with their win total, and surely none of them had arguably the best defense of all-time to ride with. I believe that there were 25 qbs in the nfl that would have won a Super Bowl with one of the best rosters the NFL has ever seen. So you have to factor that in. It isnt an apples/apples conversation.

You're arguing from a goddam vacuum, JUST FOR THE JOY OF ARGUING.

You DON'T KNOW for CERTAIN that any of those 25 Quarterbacks would have put a FULL season to HELP get the Seahawks to the big dance, so there's you're "Argument In a Vacuum.
Many in here have presented the FACTS to back up their points of view, while you speculate away, just make believe. :177692:

 

[scutterhawk]

For 2018, he's ranked 20th in passing yards. 2017 ranked 12th.
For 2018, he's ranked 15th in completion percentage. 2017 ranked 21st.

This is about being elite, those numbers don't really reflect that. I'll even sight my source. Next Wilson Fanboy please.

He's also ranked 11th in Qb Winning percentage in Games started for current QBs.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/passing-plays-completed

The overall yards is less important than the yards/attempt or yards/catch. Russ doesn't throw as much as some QB's. That's not Russ' fault, nor does it say anything about his ability as a QB. It's a stat entirely based on scheme.

As per your second question, completion %, that number is certainly not top-5 for this season. So I agree, he's not the best this season in completion %.

Just a caution, though: make sure to check on the number of drops by his receivers. PFF's stats for adjusted completion % (excluding drops by less-than-excellent supporting cast of receivers/RBs/TEs) puts him at 71% for last year, which placed him second in the league. I'm not suggest this year is the same.

Imagine that lol, Second in the League with no Run Game and Cabevil orchestrating Russ' Offensive attack....This year with Schottenheimer & a Run Heavy Offensive attack, not so much....well.....except for winning games with a lot more help from his RB's & O-Line, which means Wilson isn't being expected to carry the Offense ALL BY HIMSELF.
Those other ELITE Quarterbacks probably had shitty Offensive Lines with nobody Receivers, or RB's to help them prosper too? NOTTT!!!

 

[TwistedHusky]

It's a weird argument.

Because at this point, nobody is going to change anyone's mind.

Primarily because everyone has a different definition of elite and how to measure or qualify it.

As Largent pointed out, is it Top 3? Top 5? Among the top 20 ever? What?

I did see a QBR used to qualify but then again weird coincidence that some of today's above average but not exceptional QBs are crowding that list too. Cousins is not better than Montana and arguments where measurements can be used to say this are inherently flawed. But again, if you wanted proof that it is so much easier for a QB to produce now vs the 70s or 80s...or even to some extent the 90s? There it is. So putting up bigger numbers than past greats doesn't make you great - it makes it clear the game has changed to let lots of people put up those numbers now.

That is another discussion, however.

Wilson is arguably a top 7 QB in this league, probably top 5. Is that elite?

Some people have him as top 3 (most have him behind Brady, Rodgers and Brees though). I have him just below Ryan and Rivers. I don't think anyone has him out of the top 10. Some people have Mahomes ahead of him, some people don't consider Mahomes to have enough track record to measure.

So it is a lot of vehement argument about anywhere from 2-4 slots in terms of active QBs.

I suppose with so many pieces in place for Wilson - the defining moment will be what he does in the playoffs now that the offense has to carry the load.

 

[scutterhawk]

And I'll leave this here.. After all it is the MANs 30th birthday!

Note the Two finger go ball signal to Moore pre-snap.


[tweet]https://twitter.com/hwkbgr/status/1067923923285745664[/tweet]

The placement on that ball was absolutely PERFECT.

 

[toffee]

Some said that Wilson can only made great throws on the run, not from the pocket, like Archie Manning used to be. That's total BS as displayed in the play. Russ stood tall in the pocket and delivered a precision bomb.

View attachment 1
Lousy resolution but it showed:
1. Lockette could have been the target too as he was open, but higher risk of being intercepted if the safety slide in front of Lockette once the ball was in the air. Lockette was high risk of being intercepted with 1st down as reward if caught.
2. Balwin was not open, see lower corner. Bladwin was even higher risk with very low chance of making that 1st down.
3. Moore was medium risk, ie incomplete, but highest reward ie TD.


A pocket that gave Russ time to decide on Moore. Somehow a LB stayed back instead of charging at Ifedi. Ed Dickson blocked well enough against their DE (?), Fluker got pushed back a bit but held his block, Dickson and Fluker allowed Ifedi to stay focused on potential threat of that LB. Our Center and LG rocked in this play.

 

[Mad Dog]

1. Lockette could have been the target too as he was open, but higher risk of being intercepted if the safety slide in front of Lockette once the ball was in the air. Lockette was high risk of being intercepted with 1st down as reward if caught.

Lockette was probably open on his couch at home. Dude hasn't played football in a while.

no-E was not open. Unless he were to stop. If Russ led him with the throw it would have been right into the LB's waiting hands. There was bracket coverage on the short route. Good defense by the Panthers to force the deep throw. Sadly for them Wilson dropped a dime right into Moores bread basket.

 

[Fade]

I'll just leave this here... Weird... those other guys on these lists must really suck. Go Russ! Go Seahawks! ALL IN.


[tweet]https://twitter.com/Pat_Thorman/status/1068159414702669828[/tweet]

Adding on to that Wilson is the the highest rated passer in the 4th qtr all-time.

The other names All-Time are Rodgers, Romo, Young, & Brady. Elite.

 

[KiwiHawk]

I'll just leave this here... Weird... those other guys on these lists must really suck. Go Russ! Go Seahawks! ALL IN.


[tweet]https://twitter.com/Pat_Thorman/status/1068159414702669828[/tweet]

Adding on to that Wilson is the the highest rated passer in the 4th qtr all-time.

The other names All-Time are Rodgers, Romo, Young, & Brady. Elite.

And yet we all agree that passer rating is a flawed stat, and the detractors will point out that we wouldn't need 4th-quarter heroics if we had more production in the first three.

This stuff just goes all around in circles.

For example: Wilson hits a wide-open Lockett to get to the 10 at the end of the Carolina game. Fantastic. Sets up the game-winning field goal. However, no one can say that it wasn't under-thrown, because it was, and that if thrown properly it was a sure touchdown. Passer rating doesn't care it was under-thrown - it was a long completion.

The people who think Wilson is elite care about the completion and the following victory. The people who don't think he's elite will focus on the under-throw and the missed opportunity - even if that opportunity would have given Cam Newton a minute plus change to have another go at our defense and potentially send the game into OT.

This wasn't even the first time in that game that an open receiver was under-thrown (and completed!), and in fact it's a regular aspect of Wilson's game this year. It'll be interesting to see if a smarter corner like Richard Sherman clues into it and anticipates an under-throw on deep passes. That could then be exploited if Wilson can throw it longer, but I digress.

So yes, Wilson has flaws, and one side will use that to prove non-elite, while the other will use the results to prove elite. Which side is right depends on the side you already lean to, and this thread nor any other will change that.

 

[Fade]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SNFonNBC/status/1068181861401325569[/tweet]

Right there with the GOATs.