Russell Wilson is Holding Up His End -- It's Now Pete's Turn

[James in PA]

I always thought that if this current regime focused more on the offense, they could “coach up” a less proven defense and still make them good. Maybe they were thinking the same thing, but so far it hasn’t panned out. I hope the return of J Reed provides a much needed spark.


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[Nothinbutm]

Not to undervalue any other position on the roster, but a laymen's take on his defensive philosophy tells me that a killer FS makes the most difference in his type of scheme.

We lost a major asset in that last year and TT has been below average. There have also been missed opportunities to stop drives via picks (i.e. Cincinnati right before the first half ended.)

But that pattern is pretty clear. The early draft classes, JS and PC knocked it out of the park and rode that talent for several seasons. There is some regression in the draft as well.

 

[getnasty]

I feel like there are a lot of guys that are below what there capable of at the moment. Easy to rag on guys like TT but i never expected him to be great. To me Clowney, Ziggy, Boddy, KJ, Kendricks, Mcdougal all need to step up there game a little, not that they've been bad just not playing anywhere near there ceiling at the moment.

 

[olyfan63]

So think back for a minute, to the Holmgren offenses of Matt Hasselbeck, Shaun Alexander, Walter Jones, Hutch, Darrell Jackson, and the rest. In 2003, 2004, our offense could move the ball and score points against ANYBODY. We still lost a lot of games, because we had a crap defense, and sometimes we committed excessive turnovers on offense.

Now, fast forward from there to 2005. We drafted Lofa Tatupu, and our defense improved over the course of the year, from an absolute crap defense, to an "average" NFL defense. We had that Holmgren offense firing on all cylinders, with the big-time running game that nobody could truly stop, and the offense truly hit its stride, scoring on long, punishing drives, controlling the clock, and scoring points. We make it to the Super Bowl with an amazing, league-best offense, and an average defense. And we should have a Lombardi in the case from that year, but we don't; topic for another thread.

OK, back on topic. This Seattle offense, and Russell Wilson, are looking Holmgren-Hasselbeck-2005-good. We don't need a historic 2013 Seahawks defense for this team to win. We just need an average, yes Richard, a "mediocre" defense, for this team to do well and have a deep playoff run. That 2005 Hawks defense wasn't very good at the start of the season. But, they improved over the year, all the way to "average" by the end of the season. That could be the story this year; the defense keeps improving a little each week, the offense keeps playing lights out, with a big-time running game, and by playoff time, the D is a little "above average". The pieces are in place. The unexpected acquisition of Jadaveon Clowney. The return of Jarran Reed. Ziggy Ansah getting healthy. The continued development of our young secondary players, Hall, Flowers, Thompson. A key rookie or two stepping up... Marquise Blair, maybe? If this D improves to "average" it could be a special season. Pete seems to have mentally made the tradeoff, lights out QB and offense + average defense = Super Bowl.

Is Ken Norton holding back this defense? I honestly don't know, topic for another thread. I just know it often times doesn't look like the the Pete Carroll defenses we're used to seeing. But, I think we need to give things a little more time to gel.

 

[xray]

Carroll has a great QB and a good run game ; but he will never have a defense as good as he had 2013-2016 . It's an old boring saying that " defense wins championships " . Carroll knows he's got just an average defense at best . There's not much else he can do but hope for the best .

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yet they are 5-1 and are going to get better. Some of us just choose to believe.

 

[mistaowen]

I think leaving the LB's in less than ideal situations is hurting a typically solid LB group. Because Pete doesn't seem to trust the nickel package, they play base defense far more than they ever have and as a result, KJ and Kendricks are stuck covering speedy slot WR's in the flats/over the middle. It's not a winnable situation no matter how talented they are.

Couple that with him not trusting either safety in single high coverage, we are seeing much more 2 deep alignments which means Bobby has to drop way down the middle of the field, something I don't remember him really ever doing. AND tackling has been generally garbage this year, I don't remember a PC coached team ever this bad at wrapping up. Even the best coverage guys give up passes but limit any sort of YAC. That alone is killing the defense, something Flowers and TT have got to be better at.

I think Pete and JS know this, it's not surprising they were/are interested in Jalen Ramsey. I have a feeling they will be drafting secondary early this draft and have cap space to sign guys who fit the scheme. Pete is a DB coach at heart, seeing them be ranked 28th going into last week in pass coverage isn't something he is happy about.

 

[JGfromtheNW]

I think what we're seeing has been caused by the Hawks playing waaaay more base defense (3 LBs) than before. I think Pete feels the LBs are strong enough in pass coverage to keep them in vs. 3+ WR sets in an attempt to make offenses one dimensional and limit the running game. We've been pretty good against the run (top 10-11 as far as rushing yards per game), but it's opened up a lot of opportunity for teams to hit us in between zones that the LBs aren't able to cover. Pete mentioned last week that the way they're aligning and asking the DL to play, their #1 priority is to stop the run and rushing the passer comes second. It'll be interesting to see how this changes over the rest of the year.

I honestly don't have much of a problem with the defense so far. Yeah, they're still giving up too many points, but I think as the season wears on and the DL creates more pressure, we'll see more 5-6 DB personnel in important moments. IMO we've essentially been challenging teams to beat us playing very vanilla on defense (or rope-a-dope as Pete said after week 1).

 

[chris98251]

Still think the secondary is playing tentative due to the new rules, they shadow rather then attack, try to be in place without making contact etc. Make them throw a perfect ball rather then give them a spot foul and first down. I could see the thought process behind that but nobody seems to know when they will call it and what it will be called on this year. That can of worms that was opened screwed everyone.

 

[Chukarhawk]

I feel like they have the personnel to be better on defense. Not top 5 maybe but a lot better than they are now. Bobby and KJ are one of the best Line-backing duos in the league but they aren't playing like it. Kendricks might have the most missed tackles than anyone at his position. The pass rush is not getting it done, Ansah is a shadow of his former self and Clowney really isn't much of a pass rusher. This has exposed our questionable secondary.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Still think the secondary is playing tentative due to the new rules, they shadow rather then attack, try to be in place without making contact etc. Make them throw a perfect ball rather then give them a spot foul and first down. I could see the thought process behind that but nobody seems to know when they will call it and what it will be called on this year. That can of worms that was opened screwed everyone.

That is a fine theory and all, but the Seahawks secondary are still ranked in the bottom third of the NFL. Other teams are doing just fine. Even one of our corners, Shaq is having a very good year. I think it is as simple as this: our secondary isn’t very good, plus we don’t have much depth here either. The pantry is empty. I think Pete knew this going into the draft, but at the time pass rush was a bigger concern.

 

[Fade]

A lot of good posts in here.

I keep looking at it from two angles.

First, what can they do right now, and the rest of the season, as a stop gap? Which isn't much. Just continue to try to coach them up, and see if you can get them to tackle better, and cover better. And cross your fingers and hope Ziggy, Clowney, & Reed get things going pressure wise.


And second. how much overhaul is going to take place next off-season?

After the first game. I saw immediately FS was going to be priority #1. I don't think Marquis Blair is the answer either. To me he is an undersized box safety.

The Seahawks I think are going to invest heavy into their defense next off-season. Both UFA & the draft. They will have $70M in cap space, and 10 or so picks. Pete I think is going to be very aggressive to improve this unit, and get it turned around next year.

I look at the offense, and outside of TE (only due to injury). I don't see this team putting too much investment into their already dominant offense. (Pass Pro aside, they are dominant.)

Brown - Haynes - Britt/Pocic - Jones - Fant
Wilson - Carson - Metcalf - Lockett - Moore/Ursua - Dissly/NEW TE


Defense on the other hand will have a lot of turnover

New 5-Tech ( I think Clowney cashes in elsewhere) Collier isn't good enough.
1-Tech - Poona
New 3-Tech (I think JReed will be overpaid by another team.) I hope they can get him back on a 1 yr prove it.
New Leo (Ziggy was never a long term solution, only a rental.)

Mike - Bobby
Will - BBK or Barton (KJ may retire, or Seattle just wants to save money, and get their young LBs on the field.)
New Sam

LC - Griffin
SS - Blair/McDougald/Hill
New FS
RC - Flowers/NEW RC
New NB

Maybe as many as 7 new starters on defense. I would set the over/under at 4.5

A new DC will also only get more likely if the unit doesn't start improving in the not too distant future as well.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

.......A new DC will also only get more likely if the unit doesn't start improving in the not too distant future as well.

I can see why you feel that way and I'm feeling the same, but we all know how long it took Pete to pull the trigger on Cable and Bevell and Brian Schneider still has a job despite obviously underperforming STs. I just don't see it man.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

.........AND tackling has been generally garbage this year, I don't remember a PC coached team ever this bad at wrapping up. Even the best coverage guys give up passes but limit any sort of YAC. That alone is killing the defense, something Flowers and TT have got to be better at.......

Agree. I almost started a thread Monday asking if this is the worst tackling team Pete has had since arriving in Seattle but thought better of putting a damper on a nice comeback win. There doesn't seem to be any hard hitting either.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

A new DC will also only get more likely if the unit doesn't start improving in the not too distant future as well.

I don't think it's a coordinator issue on the defensive side of the ball, it's a personnel issue, and a scheme issue dictated by Pete to run a lot of base defense.........which is putting our LB's and safeties into a lot of bad matchups.

Which is ALSO due to a personnel issue, we just don't have 3-4 trustworthy DB's to put into nickel and dime in order to take LB's off the field.

So switching out Norton IMO isn't going to fix our defensive issues, because just like on the offensive side of the ball Norton is just running the schemes and fits Pete wants him to........with inferior personnel then we've had in the past.

 

[Fade]

A new DC will also only get more likely if the unit doesn't start improving in the not too distant future as well.

I don't think it's a coordinator issue on the defensive side of the ball, it's a personnel issue, and a scheme issue dictated by Pete to run a lot of base defense.........which is putting our LB's and safeties into a lot of bad matchups.

Which is ALSO due to a personnel issue, we just don't have 3-4 trustworthy DB's to put into nickel and dime in order to take LB's off the field.

So switching out Norton IMO isn't going to fix our defensive issues, because just like on the offensive side of the ball Norton is just running the schemes and fits Pete wants him to........with inferior personnel then we've had in the past.

Quinn

look at his pressure rate. He would marry well with PC's DB background. They were meant to be together.



Quinn is generating that kind of pressure without blitzing a lot. Quinn's issue is coverage. Pete can handle that. He is a perfect fit.

 

[knownone]

The defense will be fine. We're 7th in 3rd down defense, and 10th in passer rating against. We've had a few fluky plays against bad teams which is why the defense ranks poorly in DVOA. This is a top 10 defense with Reed.