Sack Stats past 5 years

[MontanaHawk05]

Anthony, Wilson can shoulder some blame and still be the best player on offense and still do his job better than others on the team doing theirs.

But it seems like the team as a whole hasnt worked together in mitigating sacks. Wilson sometimes saves the OLs butts sometimes he doesnt. Sometimes he makes it harder for them when they do just enough and takes a sack.

Its not the screaming indictment you imagine it is and frankly you make my RW apologetics seem almost like criticisms.

Perhaps but when I read it and the way it and some other are written they come across as blaming it on Wilson I mean really over half? Sorry nope.

Find me someone in this thread who said "over half".

I said two first-half sacks were on him. Out of five.

I think that actually encapsulates things pretty well. All quarterbacks are partially responsible for their own protection. Refuse to throw and you get sacked. Bungle a protection call and you get sacked.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

The difference I think is for every Sack Wilsons might arguably cause he gets out of 2 that most qbs would take and that is a huge thing some forget.

That is a take and one that makes sense. And it's not something I've discounted.

But it's also unprovable. I mean how do we compare every other QB's 'almost sacks', where they just stepped up in the pocket and delivered the ball? Or which QBs couldn't have escaped -- after all Wilson isn't the only slippery QB. You don't even have to have elite mobility to escape pressure. Rothlisberger moves more like a guard at this point but he manages to escape the pocket from time to time.

All I can really look at are the sacks he does run into. Because those have a clear and final outcome. I can't know which of his successful escapes are the ones that he and just a handful of other QBs could manage. Or of those he did escape that a different QB couldn't have managed to avoid a sack in alternate ways. Or even those that other QBs should have escaped likewise.

And it's worth considering the body of evidence from the 2nd half of last year. Seattle avoided sacks by way of play calling. By making a clear effort to get the ball out faster. The line didn't get better. We just delivered the ball faster.

Quite obviously, I'm not absolving the OL of blame here. There were plenty of failures (startlingly spectacular failures) committed this season. The thing is though, without accounting for how many of these the average OL commits, we can't begin to give a relative assessment of how good/bad they are.

All I can do, is look at where he was actually sacked, and then look at whether or not it could have been avoided by decisions made at the QB level or at the scheme level. Could it have been thrown away? Should it have been? Should he have worked the pocket better? Should we have better plays with quicker routes available? Did we, but the defenses just sat on those and took them away? All of these are kind of nit picky because QBing is hard. But nit picky or not -- there are sacks that aren't all on the OL despite protection breakdowns.

There's just a lot that goes into what results in a sack. It's harder to account for ones he escapes from than it is to see which ones he doesn't.

 

[hawk45]

All that stuff

I went and looked at the sacks from Arizona in the first half, all five of them. Three of them were on Fant, at least partially (or entirely, in the case of the goal-line sack...Fant was supposed to block down and didn't). Two of them, though, were squarely on Wilson - he ran right into them. His scrambling habits make it difficult for his offensive linemen to know how to block - he'll sometimes run right past the edge and get pressured by a DE than Gilliam just had locked down.

Here's the thing: Some systems and offenses are more reliant on the offensive line than others, and some systems get their QB sacked more than others. Mike Martz was notorious for his high-sack philosophy; he wanted the big play all the time.

Remember that early TD to Greg Olsen in the game after the Beastmode playoff win in 2010? It was a long seam TD and everyone blamed Lawyer Milloy for being too old and slow for the game. What nobody noticed was that the play happened on 3rd and short. This explains Milloy's hesitation; he probably never imagined Martz would go deep on that play, because there are about a hundred higher-percentage plays you can run in that situation. Had Jay Cutler missed Olsen on the throw, Martz indeed would have looked stupid. But Cutler didn't miss.

Pete (I'm not blaming Bevell, he's a sock puppet) does this stuff all the time. That deep sideline catch by Doug Baldwin in overtime in the NFCCG against the Packers? Same thing. Casey Heyward didn't expect Baldwin to go deep on short yardage and he hesitated; Baldwin got right past him. But it's a double-edged sword; that same deep greed lost us several games in '15 because we didn't convert, could have much more easily, and lost. Hell, has everyone forgotten Pete's love of deep fades to Golden Tate as early as 2012? It's always been a thing.

Point is, those deep throws require a lot of protection. You can run a system that requires a lot from your line, and you can run a system that doesn't. Pete can't make up his mind. Until the Tampa game, Wilson was amongst league leaders in getting the ball out quickly. Then, against Tampa, Pete reverted to the big play (with his starting center out, I might add - terrible timing) and Wilson started getting pounded.

I'm not saying the OL isn't to blame; you can't throw 40 times without at least a few deep shots. But Pete and Wilson aren't making life easy on them either. Imagine trying to block for a QB doing his best Ash-from-Alien-with-his-head-half-off impression upon getting pressured. You could almost say Wilson is one of the toughest QBs to block for, and Pete is one of the toughest coaches to protect for.

Dead nuts on Montana. Pete wants to run and hit deep play action yet has an approach to OL that enables neither without an HOF back and QB threat to run. We have seen that if the line can open holes we can succeed even with crappy protection, much as I'd like both.
Pete needs to wake up to this clash in his approach and quickly.

 

[Anthony!]

LOL what a joke!!

 

[Largent80]

I said this in another thread but RW runs INTO sacks. Like really a LOT !!!!!!!!!!!!

If there is one big fat dude collapsing the pocket RW will turn in that players direction and throw it away or eat it.

He caused at least half the sacks that way this year. If ya dont believe me go back and watch for yourself.

 

[Anthony!]

Anthony, Wilson can shoulder some blame and still be the best player on offense and still do his job better than others on the team doing theirs.

But it seems like the team as a whole hasnt worked together in mitigating sacks. Wilson sometimes saves the OLs butts sometimes he doesnt. Sometimes he makes it harder for them when they do just enough and takes a sack.

Its not the screaming indictment you imagine it is and frankly you make my RW apologetics seem almost like criticisms.

Perhaps but when I read it and the way it and some other are written they come across as blaming it on Wilson I mean really over half? Sorry nope.

Find me someone in this thread who said "over half".

I said two first-half sacks were on him. Out of five.

I think that actually encapsulates things pretty well. All quarterbacks are partially responsible for their own protection. Refuse to throw and you get sacked. Bungle a protection call and you get sacked.

"Wilson scrambles into a lot of sacks. Probably close to half of them." that was said earlier in the thread by Attala, So sorry not over half but "half" is still complete BS and if you think that then you should want Wilson gone. This whole thread is such BS and sound slike a lot of people making excuses for what everyone excepted was the weakest unit on the team, every expert said it but now we want to try to rationalize how they are not that bad but for the QB and the HC. Laughable. Also to say well I can tell how many sacks were his fault but not how many he saved is also complete BS, but hey its least you guys are making me laugh.

 

[Largent80]

I'm here to provide comic relief but, in your case, just to raise your blood pressure. But I sat down 2 days ago. I have every game on my DVR, so sorry Charlie, he runs into a GIGANTIC amount of sacks.

Once again, simply go view video proof.

 

[chris98251]

Anthony, Wilson can shoulder some blame and still be the best player on offense and still do his job better than others on the team doing theirs.

But it seems like the team as a whole hasnt worked together in mitigating sacks. Wilson sometimes saves the OLs butts sometimes he doesnt. Sometimes he makes it harder for them when they do just enough and takes a sack.

Its not the screaming indictment you imagine it is and frankly you make my RW apologetics seem almost like criticisms.

Perhaps but when I read it and the way it and some other are written they come across as blaming it on Wilson I mean really over half? Sorry nope.

Find me someone in this thread who said "over half".

I said two first-half sacks were on him. Out of five.

I think that actually encapsulates things pretty well. All quarterbacks are partially responsible for their own protection. Refuse to throw and you get sacked. Bungle a protection call and you get sacked.

Wait and wait for a guy to come open instead of going with the first read of a guy open and you get sacked.

"Wilson scrambles into a lot of sacks. Probably close to half of them." that was said earlier in the thread by Attala, So sorry not over half but "half" is still complete BS and if you think that then you should want Wilson gone. This whole thread is such BS and sound slike a lot of people making excuses for what everyone excepted was the weakest unit on the team, every expert said it but now we want to try to rationalize how they are not that bad but for the QB and the HC. Laughable. Also to say well I can tell how many sacks were his fault but not how many he saved is also complete BS, but hey its least you guys are making me laugh.

Added one more thing.

 

[Anthony!]

I'm here to provide comic relief but, in your case, just to raise your blood pressure. But I sat down 2 days ago. I have every game on my DVR, so sorry Charlie, he runs into a GIGANTIC amount of sacks.

Once again, simply go view video proof.

Lol well you made me laugh, funny though I asked 3 friends of mine who also DVR the games, they looked back and well lets just sat they would disagree with you, as would I, Ray Roberts, and almost every expert out there, so I will just laugh at why is more bs non accurate info.

 

[Anthony!]

so in this thread we have had someone say Wilson is responsible for half of the sacks and another says he is responsible for a "Gigantic" number of the sacks.

So lets look at it. Footballoutsiders.com had us as 42. So under the half premise that means the oline with any other QB would have given up 21 sacks. Under the other premise of "Gigantic" which is certainly more than half but less than all so we will go with 75% of the sacks that means the oline is responsible for 13 sacks.

So that means to these 2 people and the others who agreed with them you are saying that our oline is a top 2 pass blocking oline with any other QB but Wilson. #1 pass blocking oline gave up 18 sacks, and #2 gave up 22. REALLY and then you wonder why I laugh.

 

[Smellyman]

The line is abysmal. No real need to analyze further.

Rodgers looks good dancing in the pocket because he is great. But also because his line is usually manned up giving him lanes all over the place.

 

[Anthony!]

The line is abysmal. No real need to analyze further.

Rodgers looks good dancing in the pocket because he is great. But also because his line is usually manned up giving him lanes all over the place.

Rodgers oline in pass blocking this year is 13th and never lower than 24rd during his career with an avg of 18th. Wilson has never been higher than 20th and avg for his career 26th. Huge difference

 

[Jville]

so in this thread we have had someone say Wilson is responsible for half of the sacks and another says he is responsible for a "Gigantic" number of the sacks.

So lets look at it. Footballoutsiders.com had us as 42. So under the half premise that means the oline with any other QB would have given up 21 sacks. Under the other premise of "Gigantic" which is certainly more than half but less than all so we will go with 75% of the sacks that means the oline is responsible for 13 sacks.

So that means to these 2 people and the others who agreed with them you are saying that our oline is a top 2 pass blocking oline with any other QB but Wilson. #1 pass blocking oline gave up 18 sacks, and #2 gave up 22. REALLY and then you wonder why I laugh.

Phantom posters?

Or hearing voices?

 

[Anthony!]

so in this thread we have had someone say Wilson is responsible for half of the sacks and another says he is responsible for a "Gigantic" number of the sacks.

So lets look at it. Footballoutsiders.com had us as 42. So under the half premise that means the oline with any other QB would have given up 21 sacks. Under the other premise of "Gigantic" which is certainly more than half but less than all so we will go with 75% of the sacks that means the oline is responsible for 13 sacks.

So that means to these 2 people and the others who agreed with them you are saying that our oline is a top 2 pass blocking oline with any other QB but Wilson. #1 pass blocking oline gave up 18 sacks, and #2 gave up 22. REALLY and then you wonder why I laugh.

Phantom posters?

Or hearing voices?

Try reading all the posts in the thread both comments are there. so the correct the correct answer is silly posters

 

[Jville]

Anthony,

I realize you are a HUGE Russell Wilson fan.

However, Russell Wilson doesn't need a self appointed defender. He is well aware of mistakes and tendencies that demand his attention. There is nothing unusual about members of a message forum describing a players limitations or chemistry. It is a common topic with any player that is still developing and has yet to realize his full potential ..... especially with quarterbacks.

 

[Anthony!]

Anthony,

I realize you are a HUGE Russell Wilson fan.

However, Russell Wilson doesn't need a self appointed defender. He is well aware of mistakes and tendencies that demand his attention. There is nothing unusual about members of a message forum describing a players limitations or chemistry. It is a common topic with any player that is still developing and has yet to realize his full potential ..... especially with quarterbacks.

ahh you said "Phantom posters?

Or hearing voices?"

Making it seem like I was making stuff up, I then told you to read the thread which clearly shows I was not. I am entitled to post what I want, and while I have no issue with Wilson or for that matter every QB in league to include Brady and Rodgers having shortcomings, I do have an issue with blatant BS, such as half or Gigantic and when its posted I will respond period. There is also nothing unusual for someone on a forum to disagree and take a stance on a situation or player. Which I am doing and will continue if I see the need.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

The best thing about Russ imo is that he knows what he needs to work on. And he's always striving to get better.

 

[Largent80]

so in this thread we have had someone say Wilson is responsible for half of the sacks and another says he is responsible for a "Gigantic" number of the sacks.

So lets look at it. Footballoutsiders.com had us as 42. So under the half premise that means the oline with any other QB would have given up 21 sacks. Under the other premise of "Gigantic" which is certainly more than half but less than all so we will go with 75% of the sacks that means the oline is responsible for 13 sacks.

So that means to these 2 people and the others who agreed with them you are saying that our oline is a top 2 pass blocking oline with any other QB but Wilson. #1 pass blocking oline gave up 18 sacks, and #2 gave up 22. REALLY and then you wonder why I laugh.

Phantom posters?

Or hearing voices?

so the correct the correct answer is silly posters

Yeah, video PROOF of him doing it, yet we are "silly" for reporting what everyone in the free world can see. You only see and hear what you want to see and hear, which in reality....is SILLY.

 

[Anthony!]

so in this thread we have had someone say Wilson is responsible for half of the sacks and another says he is responsible for a "Gigantic" number of the sacks.

So lets look at it. Footballoutsiders.com had us as 42. So under the half premise that means the oline with any other QB would have given up 21 sacks. Under the other premise of "Gigantic" which is certainly more than half but less than all so we will go with 75% of the sacks that means the oline is responsible for 13 sacks.

So that means to these 2 people and the others who agreed with them you are saying that our oline is a top 2 pass blocking oline with any other QB but Wilson. #1 pass blocking oline gave up 18 sacks, and #2 gave up 22. REALLY and then you wonder why I laugh.

Phantom posters?

Or hearing voices?

so the correct the correct answer is silly posters

Yeah, video PROOF of him doing it, yet we are "silly" for reporting what everyone in the free world can see. You only see and hear what you want to see and hear, which in reality....is SILLY.

Dude your Video proof is your opinion and if everyone can see then how come every expert says our oline sucks? You don't think they do not look at video? Anyone who watched a game can tell this oline sucks but you and a select few seem to think that half or a gigantic number of the sacks are on him there for as I pointed out with facts that means the oline does not sucks. Yet the video shows it does so again, to help you

so in this thread we have had someone say Wilson is responsible for half of the sacks and another says he is responsible for a "Gigantic" number of the sacks.

So lets look at it. Footballoutsiders.com had us as 42. So under the half premise that means the oline with any other QB would have given up 21 sacks. Under the other premise of "Gigantic" which is certainly more than half but less than all so we will go with 75% of the sacks that means the oline is responsible for 13 sacks.

So that means to these 2 people and the others who agreed with them you are saying that our oline is a top 2 pass blocking oline with any other QB but Wilson. #1 pass blocking oline gave up 18 sacks, and #2 gave up 22. REALLY and then you wonder why I laugh.


Like I said silly posters. Its one thing to say he occasional causes a sack, all QBs do, but its another to say half or a gigantic number as that is plain BS, and again as I illustrated would mean our oline is great and the video clearly show sit it is not. Like I said silly posters.

 

[erik2690]

Wilson's 'time to throw' this year was 2.61. I actually don't think this stat is a tell-all or anything, but just for context it's by a good margin his fastest I'm pretty sure. He got the ball out relatively quick. Faster than Matt Ryan and only .04 from Brady.

I'll be honest, I may not be as defensive as Anthony, but it is weird to see a thread analyzing our fairly obviously bad o-line turn into mainly a 'here's what Wilson did wrong' thread. I feel like that does tend to happen more on this forum than most, don't know the reason. Like with all QB's I'm perfectly sure he had negative plays that didn't help the o-line. But the o-line is not good at pass blocking. It's okay to acknowledge that without caveat. I think everyone knows that no player plays perfect or that the o-line isn't at fault on literally all plays w/o the 'yeah but....'.