Seahawks' Opponent Penalties: Team Average vs. SEA Game

[pehawk]

I actually DONT appreciate your choice of charts. Waterfall charts are the new "rage" apparently, and they suck to build.

Well, if you're referring to my two top charts, you might be wrong there, too.

Waterfall charts are cumulative; mine are simply bar charts indicating where a team's penalties were in relation to their average ("0").

Still have to manually do it by removing fill properties though, right? Two of my current clients want their HC and demo data in waterfall formats...using forecast as the...err...nevermind. I hate the charts but LOVE your research. Good isht.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

I did a similar post after week 7.

Discounting pre snap penalties, we had 26 penalties to opponents 25.

Unforced penalties should be omitted.

 

[gulliver]

I did a similar post after week 7.

Discounting pre snap penalties, we had 26 penalties to opponents 25.

Unforced penalties should be omitted.

Again... forget OUR penalties. Focus on THEIRS.

 

[Sarlacc83]

This exact same thing happened to USC while Pete was there. The teams we played had fewer penalties when they played USC than vs. any other opponent. Pete was told by the conference that was statistically impossible, yet they couldn't deny the numbers and never provided a reason for it.

I don't know that I'm willing to assume a conspiracy, but I think it highly likely that refs have an unconscious bias against Pete's teams because of their tough style of play. They simply tend to assume the worst.

Pac-12 (10) officials are incompetent.

NFL refs are incompetent.

I think I see a trend forming.

 

[minormillikin]

The Onion has the answer:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/study-nfl-referees-may-be-biased-toward-discipline,37183/

 

[253hawk]

Last season, we had 37 offensive and 25 defensive penalties through 8 games.

This season, we're at 29 and 25 through 7 games. Not much difference, really, and the false starts and holding are right in the average with 2013. The biggest thing I've noticed is unnecessary roughness...we had 13 last year. We have only 1 so far this year (on Carpenter for following through with his block.)

 

[marko358]

I did a similar post after week 7.

Discounting pre snap penalties, we had 26 penalties to opponents 25.

Unforced penalties should be omitted.

Again... forget OUR penalties. Focus on THEIRS.

I feel that we just need to show our opponents' penalties per game throughout the season, omitting what our team has committed. The sudden decline in penalties when they play us would be eye opening.

 

[loafoftatupu]

I will put it in simple terms. Both the Niners and Hawks are on the wrong side of penalties that are being called one way but not the other.

Whatever the reasons are, it has happened to both teams.

 

[sc85sis]

That would potentially reinforce my theory about refs tending to assume the worst when officiating games with physical teams. It's hardly definitive though, and correlation does not equal causation.

 

[Jville]

Data links for those interested in opponent penalties and such as offered by teamrankings.com ....
[urltargetblank]http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-penalty-yards-per-game[/urltargetblank]
[urltargetblank]http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-penalties-per-game[/urltargetblank]
[urltargetblank]http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-penalty-first-downs-per-game[/urltargetblank]


Source Categories of Penalties Stats

Penalties per Game
Penalty Yards per Game
Penalty First Downs per Game
Opponent Penalties per Game
Opponent Penalty Yards per Game
Opponent Penalty First Downs per Game
Penalty Yards per Penalty
Penalties per Play
Opponent Penalty Yards per Penalty
Opponent Penalties per Play

 

[SalishHawkFan]

Glad I dropped by here and saw you'd done this before I sunk all that time into it. I may pitch in and help a little (without the graphs though, sorry). I'll try and look up a few previous Super Bowl winners. I'm also curious if swallowing the whistle was something that has happened to other Seahawks teams. I might dig into the seasons we've had since Pete took over. And I think I'll throw in the SB XL season as well.

May take time though. I'll post as I go. Anyone else like to pitch in then YAY!

 

[SalishHawkFan]

Data links for those interested in opponent penalties and such as offered by teamrankings.com ....
[urltargetblank]http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-penalty-yards-per-game[/urltargetblank]
[urltargetblank]http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-penalties-per-game[/urltargetblank]
[urltargetblank]http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-penalty-first-downs-per-game[/urltargetblank]


Source Categories of Penalties Stats

Penalties per Game
Penalty Yards per Game
Penalty First Downs per Game
Opponent Penalties per Game
Opponent Penalty Yards per Game
Opponent Penalty First Downs per Game
Penalty Yards per Penalty
Penalties per Play
Opponent Penalty Yards per Penalty
Opponent Penalties per Play

Some interesting observations from that website: In the Pete Carroll era, the opponents of the 2014 Seahawks are the 4th least penalized teams per game in the NFL. That's 4th out of 160.

In yards penalized per game they have the least penalty yards of 160 teams in the Pete Carroll era.

 

[SalishHawkFan]

Just did Baltimore last year when they were the defending champs.

Less calls: Cleveland x 2, NYJ, Pitt

More calls : Denver, Hou. Buffalo, Mia, Pitt, GB, Cincy x 2, chi, minn, NE, Det.

75% to 100% more penalties called on the opponent than their season avg: Hou, Buffalo, Chicago, Cincy, NE.

Less yardage penalized: Cleveland x2

all the rest penalized more yardage than their season average vs Baltimore.

75% to 100% more yardage penalized: Houston, Buffalo, Miami, Cincy, Chicago, Minn, Det. NE

Chicago got penalized 250% more than they normally do. HALF the teams Baltimore faced got penalized significantly more, many times double as many yards as they did vs the rest of the NFL.

So that kinda burns the theory that the opponents of Super Bowl champs bring their A game and get penalized less.

 

[VivaEfrenHerrera]

Interesting. I wonder if it's significant? I don't have the statistics horsepower to give an interesting answer on that. One explanation for why teams (in general) play "cleaner" against the Hawks might be another factor of the "Bullseye on the back" theory.

I didn't really buy into the idea that the Hawks would get every team's "best shot" this year -- it just seemed like a cliche. But as the year's unfolded, it seems pretty true. Fewer mental mistakes -- and hence penalties -- might be just another facet of teams getting "up" to play the champs. (Especially champs who won cocky. Did anybody actually get up to play the Ravens? Eh...)

I have to admit I'd be pretty surprised to see, say, New England's opponents consistently playing under their penalty average in the seasons after the Pats' Super Bowl wins.

Edit to add:

So that kinda burns the theory that the opponents of Super Bowl champs bring their A game and get penalized less.

Bloody hell! Why'd we have to post at the same time? That's too good... :thirishdrinkers:

 

[Seahawkfan80]

If you are looking at the Ravens next season....must remember that they were toasted after the Bowl with a great portion of their team going to different locations. They lost their swagger as they lost players to other teams. I dont know if that changed their perspective as to penalties and dont know if they had a sizable amount of penalties during their Owl run? Maybe they just played consistently and were rewarded as such. I dont know..but wonder.

 

[SalishHawkFan]

If you are looking at the Ravens next season....must remember that they were toasted after the Bowl with a great portion of their team going to different locations. They lost their swagger as they lost players to other teams. I dont know if that changed their perspective as to penalties and dont know if they had a sizable amount of penalties during their Owl run? Maybe they just played consistently and were rewarded as such. I dont know..but wonder.

It's not about THEIR penalties, it's about their opponents penalties.

 

[morgulon1]

Any chance this is normal for most reigning champs?

That is a whole 'nother research project. This took me about an hour to throw together, and I'd really have to get the last 10+ champs to test how we compare to the norm.

If there's any question, I believe anti-Seattle league bias--IF it exists at all--is directed at the champs generally, not at us for being the Seahawks.

But again, to test that, I'd have to call in sick a few days...

Do you believe that there is anti-Seattle biased officiating? I sometimes feel like there is but I've always felt this way.

 

[RiverDog]

Nice work, Gulliver.

I've almost categorically denounced any theory that there exists a bias against us, but you've gone about it in a very factual manner and make a compelling argument. You've compiled enough data that would tend to rule out a coincidence. Good job.

But there could be something else at work besides an officiating bias. For example, take our receiving corps. We don't have the types of threats at WR that a lot of teams do, so we may not draw as many DPI or defensive holding/illegal contact penalties as other teams might. Another factor could be our quarterback. Russell may not be as good at drawing other teams offsides relative to other quarterbacks, like P. Manning and Luck. Teams respond to certain things that their opponents do, and it's possible that our style of play just doesn't draw a lot of penalties.

Nevertheless, your research has piqued my curiosity, and I'll be watching to see if there's a cause to this undeniable trend.

 

[RiverDog]

Nice work, Gulliver.

I've almost categorically denounced any theory that there exists an officiating bias against us, but you've gone about it in a very factual manner and make a compelling argument. You've compiled enough data that would tend to rule out a coincidence. Good job.

But there could be something else at work besides an officiating bias. For example, take our receiving corps. We don't have the types of threats at WR that a lot of teams do, so we may not draw as many DPI or defensive holding/illegal contact penalties as other teams might. Another factor could be our quarterback. Russell may not be as good at drawing other teams offsides relative to other quarterbacks, like P. Manning and Luck. Teams respond to certain things that their opponents do, and it's possible that our style of play just doesn't draw a lot of penalties.

Nevertheless, your research has piqued my curiosity, and I'll be watching to see if there's a cause to this undeniable trend.

 

[billio155]

Football is a sport that cannot be called to the letter of the law. There are 22 bodies engaging one another on every snap. With all these collisions there is a potential penalty on every play. Football referees are there to keep balance, not to call every penalty they see. We play a very physical brand of football that inherently throws off this balance and referee's have been pulling out there flags every time we start to roll. How many touchdowns have we had called back? How many big plays? We are paying the price for being a physically superior team.