Why did the Seahawks lose the last 4 in a row

[LTH]

My "thing" is that you keep referring to the 2022 and 2023 seasons as a rebuild

Ok we disagree on this issue... it was a

rebuild but to what degree? Hawks got rid of some pretty big contracts and some major players starting the year the traded Wilson.

This year they revamped the D only two starting players from last year started this year with a heavy mix of vets and 1st and 2nd year players which makes them young at key positions.

My other "thing" is your insistence that the Niners are "beating everybody" when in fact they've lost to three .500ish teams in succession.

I know they lost 3 but I have addressed this issue and you missed my point or I didn't make my point strong enough.

With the exception of those three losses which by the way were because of key injuries, look at the point differential of the 9ers victories they are wiping out every body they beat Dallas 42-10 they beat Philly 42-19

Yes they lost three games... but what were the circumstances that they lost those games? It was because during that stretch they had 3 major players hurt. Williams, Debo, and McCaffery. That is precisely why they lost those games because of injury to key players..

The point being that the Hawks have been playing all year with a decimated O line, Geno missed a game and played hurt in a game because the O line was beat to hell they played 10 different combinations of lineman... Walker has missed a couple of games and has been playing hurt . Locketts been hurt Metcalf has been playing hurt. They lost Uchenna Nwosu, Diggs has been playing hurt Jamal has been nursing the rehab on his knee, can't get Mone back because he is hurt...I could go on and on because the truth is the Seahawks are decimated by injury all year long and that takes a toll on a team and that is PART of the reason the Hawks have struggled this year.

I'm using SF as an example of what happens when you lose key players they went on a three game skid. How good do you think they would be if they played their first 6 games with out their starting tackles? during that three game stretch look at purdys numbers he got sacked, pressured and threw int's because they couldn't run the ball or protect the passer


And yes injuries are not an excuse but at the same time it's not a reason to fire a head coach. Yes there are other issues the Hawks have to work through its not all injury its also player execution and peneltys etc.

What I am saying is that Pete is responsible for this mess and needs to be held accountable. He's already thrown a number of coordinators into the volcano, so if a change is deemed necessary, it needs to start with Pete.

I'm not at all satisfied with these mediocre .500ish one and done teams that seems to be the maximum of what Pete can produce. He's had 7 years to rebuild this franchise, not the 2 years you're claiming it to have been.

yes Pete is ultimately responsible for this team. My only point is before we judge it let's finish the season. Pete Carroll is very good at getting his team to play well in the 4th quarter of the season.

I'm not going to go into the specifics of the last 14 years other than say, To do a rebuild you have high draft picks. You can't rebuild picking in the bottom third in the draft.. come on man... I mean name a team that has done a rebuild successfully drafting from 26-28 for 12 years. I mean be real...


LTH

 

[Ozzy]

The Seahawks aren’t that young on defense at key positions and the one guy who is is also their best player. It feels like you’re forcing your opinion. This defense is anything but young. Diggs, Adams, Wagner, Brooks, the whole Dline almost. I don’t agree with your point. The defense is terrible and there is really no excuse for it

 

[RiverDog]

Ok we disagree on this issue... it was a

rebuild but to what degree? Hawks got rid of some pretty big contracts and some major players starting the year the traded Wilson.

So let's assume that we get rid of Adams and Diggs and Lockett retires. Those are three pretty big contracts. Would you then characterize 2024 as another rebuilding year?

Yes they lost three games... but what were the circumstances that they lost those games? It was because during that stretch they had 3 major players hurt. Williams, Debo, and McCaffery. That is precisely why they lost those games because of injury to key players..

McCaffery had 18 touches vs. both the Bengals and Vikings and 14 vs. the Browns so you can scratch him from your excuse list. Better make sure you double clutch as you downshift or you'll grind the gears.

Besides, you are stating injuries as a conclusive fact, an undeniable reason why the Niners lost those games while not recognizing the fact that their opponents also had injuries to deal with. Would the Niners have won those games with a healthy lineup? Maybe, perhaps even probably. But we don't know.

You're also ignoring or refusing to recognize the quality of the three teams that beat them. Their combined W/L record is 22-17, decent but hardly a Murderer's row like we're in the midst of. They are not "beating everybody".

And yes injuries are not an excuse but at the same time it's not a reason to fire a head coach. Yes there are other issues the Hawks have to work through its not all injury its also player execution and peneltys etc.

There's a difference between saying that we should hold someone accountable for something as I am saying about Pete and saying that he should be fired, which I never said. What I am saying is that if we are to fire anyone, it needs to start with him. Pete has thrown enough DC's and OC's into the volcano and has had plenty of "rebuilding" opportunities.

I'm not going to go into the specifics of the last 14 years other than say, To do a rebuild you have high draft picks. You can't rebuild picking in the bottom third in the draft.. come on man... I mean name a team that has done a rebuild successfully drafting from 26-28 for 12 years. I mean be real...

You're wrong. Teams can be successful picking from those spots. Take a look at the Niners, the team you've been trumpeting. Their highest draft pick last year was a 3rd rounder. In 2022, their highest pick was a 2nd rounder. They had a high pick in 2021, but they burned it and some other capital on Trey Lance, who was a complete bust. In 2020, they had two #1 picks, but their next pick in that draft wasn't until the 5th round.

But they've made the most out of the picks that have had. Deebo was a 2nd round pick. Fred Warner was taken in the 3rd. George Kittle was a 5th round selection. Greenlaw was also a 5th round pick. So was Lenoir. And, of course, Brock Purdy was Mr. Irrelevant, the last person taken in the draft.

They've built their team through smart trades, ie Williams (they got him for a 5th and a 3rd) and McCaffery, and with the exception of Lance hit on their first rounders in Bosa, Aiyuk, and Armistead, made some brilliant selections in the lower rounds, and with smart FA signings, ie Ward.

Not only that, but one of the big reasons why Pete hasn't had many first round picks is because he's pissed them away in trades, ie Adams, Graham, and Harvin. In our 2021 draft, we had just 3 picks, the highest being a #2 that he burned on Dee Eskridge.

You're making excuses.

 

[LTH]

I mean... I'm not going to respond to all of that because I think we are just going in circles. I think we just disagree and that's fine.

It is naive to think injuries don't play a factor. The do for a fact. And I am not making excuses.

I'm not saying Pete should not be held accountable. He should, and he is holding him self accountable if you listen to his PC he said exactly what you said it all starts with him.

The premise of my original post is that this season has proved that the Hawks are not as good as the Niners or the Cowboys which make up 3 of the last 4 losses. How can anybody match up the rosters and say that the Hawks should beat those teams? the reason people believe the Hawks can win games like that is precisly because Pete Carroll teams are well coached and typically play better than their talent. Now you want to hold Carroll responsible for the Hawks roster? fine....both him and John Schneider are responsible for the Seahawk roster. But you conveniently did not answer my question asking you to identify a team that has rebuilt their team picking from the bottom third of the draft for twelve straight years. It's definitely not the Niners or the Rams.

What's interesting is the Niners put up 41+ points on both the Eagles and the Cowboys they completely destroyed both those teams and the but the Hawks made a game out of the last time they played the SF, as well, they made a game out of the loss to Dallas. Dallas put up 41 vs Philly... Interesting to see what the the Hawks do vs Philly...


LTH

 

[RiverDog]

I mean... I'm not going to respond to all of that because I think we are just going in circles. I think we just disagree and that's fine.

I agree.

It is naive to think injuries don't play a factor. The do for a fact. And I am not making excuses.

I never said that they didn't. What I'm saying is that you're stating them as an undeniable, unimpeachable reason why the Niners lost those games. You're also ignoring the injuries on the other side of the field, particularly the Browns, who played the Niners minus their top RB, their top QB, and their top OL.

I'm not saying Pete should not be held accountable. He should, and he is holding him self accountable if you listen to his PC he said exactly what you said it all starts with him.

Pete's holding himself accountable? How? Is he quitting? Taking a pay cut? Maybe donate all of his salary to charity?

You don't hold yourself accountable for your actions. That's for someone else, in this case, Jody Allen, and of course in the minds of fans like us. What you do is take responsibility, that you'll accept the blame, that you're not going to point the finger at someone else.

The premise of my original post is that this season has proved that the Hawks are not as good as the Niners or the Cowboys which make up 3 of the last 4 losses. How can anybody match up the rosters and say that the Hawks should beat those teams? the reason people believe the Hawks can win games like that is precisly because Pete Carroll teams are well coached and typically play better than their talent. Now you want to hold Carroll responsible for the Hawks roster? fine....both him and John Schneider are responsible for the Seahawk roster. But you conveniently did not answer my question asking you to identify a team that has rebuilt their team picking from the bottom third of the draft for twelve straight years. It's definitely not the Niners or the Rams.

What's interesting is the Niners put up 41+ points on both the Eagles and the Cowboys they completely destroyed both those teams and the but the Hawks made a game out of the last time they played the SF, as well, they made a game out of the loss to Dallas. Dallas put up 41 vs Philly... Interesting to see what the the Hawks do vs Philly...


LTH

I didn't respond because I rejected your premise, that this is a rebuild. It is not. And one of the major reasons why we haven't done very well in the draft is because we've pissed away much of our capital on trades. How many teams have gone into a draft with no #1 pick, no #3 pick, and just 3 selections overall?

The premise of my response is that we had an easy front 9 and a much tougher back nine. That 6-3 record we once had wasn't us. The chickens have come home to roost with that tougher 2nd half schedule. We're a 9-8 team IMO.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

They still should have knocked off Dallas.

 

[Appyhawk]

Rebuilding need not be total destruction of an existing roster nor should it be limited to drafting new players. As has been stated, the Niners and Rams etc have succeeded both through the draft and through acquisitions. Our ability to do more in the way of acquisitions is due to lack of ability to restructure or cull overly generous contracts for players who are not earning their keep. Our ability to do a lot in the draft has been limited because of our consistent overall success over the years. The way the nfl is designed is to create rollover at the top through attrition, and it works.
Check out the Jaguars who have ascended into the top tier now, when they were recently the dregs of the league. A number of our castoff players have been snatched up by the Jaguars, Falcons, and Jets. My feeling is we have not been as smart at cap manipulation as has our opposition. The Niners, maybe the league's top team at present, were swimming in the league cesspool just a few years ago, and spent years in that position.

 

[rjdriver]

They still should have knocked off Dallas.

Nobody was knocking off Dallas with the 7 extra players wearing their NFL approved black and white alternates.

Our only hope was if DK started dating Olivia Rodrigo or something.

 

[pittpnthrs]

And one of the major reasons why we haven't done very well in the draft is because we've pissed away much of our capital on trades. How many teams have gone into a draft with no #1 pick, no #3 pick, and just 3 selections overall?

This cannot be overlooked.

 

[RiverDog]

Our ability to do a lot in the draft has been limited because of our consistent overall success over the years.

That's not entirely true. First off, we've traded away a lot of our picks, particularly high draft picks, for players like Percy Harvin, Jimmy Graham, and Jamal Adams. Heck, in 2021, we had just 3 picks, and it didn't include a #1 or #3. Secondly, we haven't made good selections with the picks we did have as evidenced by the fact that we are the only team in the league not to have picked up the 5th year option on any of our #1 picks since it was added to the CBA in 2011.

Although our consistent mediocrity of playing just well enough to land ourselves in the bottom 1/3 of the draft slotting but not well enough to compete for a championship is a factor, it doesn't compare with the other mistakes that has us in our current predicament.

 

[hoxrox]

Rebuilding need not be total destruction of an existing roster nor should it be limited to drafting new players. As has been stated, the Niners and Rams etc have succeeded both through the draft and through acquisitions. Our ability to do more in the way of acquisitions is due to lack of ability to restructure or cull overly generous contracts for players who are not earning their keep. Our ability to do a lot in the draft has been limited because of our consistent overall success over the years. The way the nfl is designed is to create rollover at the top through attrition, and it works.
Check out the Jaguars who have ascended into the top tier now, when they were recently the dregs of the league. A number of our castoff players have been snatched up by the Jaguars, Falcons, and Jets. My feeling is we have not been as smart at cap manipulation as has our opposition. The Niners, maybe the league's top team at present, were swimming in the league cesspool just a few years ago, and spent years in that position.

Yep, John doesn't get a pass here. He's the one who negotiates these contracts and manages the team from a monetary and cap standpoint. This is his wheelhouse.

Doubling down on the JA mistake by giving him a huge contract before he even proved himself in Seattle. Then he tripled down with the restructure, making him harder to cut, even while he's been injury prone.

Awarding Diggs the big contract after he had a major injury. Thinking this guy is "captain" material. He's not. He loafs on plays and sets a horrible example.

Making Myers one of the highest paid kickers in the league when the guy chokes with the game on the line.

Failing to properly self-scout, thinking the team was just one player away, and giving up valuable draft capital that could have been ammo for drafting the QBOTF.

Drafting for BPA (good thing), but failing to establish a core identity with this roster.

Prioritizing skill position players when it all begins and ends in the trenches.

Other bloated contracts given to underperforming players.

John Lynch > John Schneider right now.