Seahawks reportedly make huge contract offer to Russell

[MVP53]

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2014-11-19/jordy-nelson-green-bay-packers-wide-receiver-fantasy-stats-schedule-nfl-numbers-40-time-speed-high-school-college-track

Jordy Nelson is plenty athletic.

What were his stats when Rodgers was out two years ago?

I don't care. How does that prove he's unathletic, or that he's just a "good route runner with good hands"?

 

[ptisme]

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2014-11-19/jordy-nelson-green-bay-packers-wide-receiver-fantasy-stats-schedule-nfl-numbers-40-time-speed-high-school-college-track

Jordy Nelson is plenty athletic.

What were his stats when Rodgers was out two years ago?

I don't care. How does that prove he's unathletic, or that he's just a "good route runner with good hands"?

He's good. What I'm saying is guys like James Jones and Greg Jennings were good too.... Until they left Rodgers....

 

[scutterhawk]

My statement isnt pointless because:

A. The original statement was that Wilson was better than Rodgers because he has better rushing numbers, which is beyond ridiculous.

B. I disagree with your assessment that the passing game problems we have are all attributed to everyone BUT Wilson. There is plenty of tape to show our receivers getting separation while Wilson holds the ball. Other QB's when blitzed find the hot receiver at their backfoot and nobody notices the o-line. Wilson scrambles left, right, dodges eludes, and sometimes hits a miracle play with his athletic gifts. But because of the drama, we all say DARN THAT O-LINE!!!

As fans, because Wilson is our QB and we love him, its a lot easier to blame other reasons for our struggles. And some of them are valid. Our oline does struggle at times. Our receivers certainly arent perfect. But there is PLENTY of evidence to support Wilson playing a significant role in the struggles as well. Which is fine, he's learning. But he is opening himself up to this type of critique by deciding his value lies at the top of the heap.

You're right on one part of your Statement, it isn't pointless....It's absurd.
You are ATTEMPTING to diminish that one advantage that Russell Wilson has over Aaron Rodgers, and that is his ability to scramble for nearly 900 Yards last Season.
This is a huge attribute to Wilson's Quarterback play, and NOT a detriment to be able to scramble like that when sometimes that "DARN" O-Line caves in and allows a Defender come through UNTOUCHED.
It's an ADDED feature that puts him right up there with the greats.
It's his Passing ---> AND <--- Running that makes him one of the BEST........ not Passing,---> OR <--- Running.
And as far as people believing that there are no Coaches that would rather have a Quarterback that can throw the ball, and not run with it?....Bullshit.... if your Quarterback has the ability to run, and is under pressure, you'd be a fool if you didn't take advantage of a weakness in the Defense, and scramble for the first down.
MOST Quarterbacks will scramble when they are in a pinch, Russell Wilson is just much better at it than MOST other Quarterbacks in the League, and with the sometimes shitty protection that the O-Line gives, it's a damned good thing he has the mobility/ability to do it.

 

[scutterhawk]

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2014-11-19/jordy-nelson-green-bay-packers-wide-receiver-fantasy-stats-schedule-nfl-numbers-40-time-speed-high-school-college-track

Jordy Nelson is plenty athletic.

What were his stats when Rodgers was out two years ago?

:roll: It's apparent that whoever the Back-Up Quarterback was, he wasn't targeting him AS OFTEN as Rodgers.
It's obvious that Rodgers has a lot of faith in Nelson to make the catches, or he wouldn't keep throwing the ball to him, right?

 

[MVP53]

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2014-11-19/jordy-nelson-green-bay-packers-wide-receiver-fantasy-stats-schedule-nfl-numbers-40-time-speed-high-school-college-track

Jordy Nelson is plenty athletic.

What were his stats when Rodgers was out two years ago?

I don't care. How does that prove he's unathletic, or that he's just a "good route runner with good hands"?

He's good. What I'm saying is guys like James Jones and Greg Jennings were good too.... Until they left Rodgers....

And with that, I would not disagree. Most WRs are less productive when paired with a lesser QB. That's rather rudimentary.

That has nothing to do with Nelson's athleticism though.

 

[ptisme]

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2014-11-19/jordy-nelson-green-bay-packers-wide-receiver-fantasy-stats-schedule-nfl-numbers-40-time-speed-high-school-college-track

Jordy Nelson is plenty athletic.

What were his stats when Rodgers was out two years ago?

:roll: It's apparent that whoever the Back-Up Quarterback was, he wasn't targeting him AS OFTEN as Rodgers.
It's obvious that Rodgers has a lot of faith in Nelson to make the catches, or he wouldn't keep throwing the ball to him, right?

Rodgers doesn't specifically target Jordy. Cobb's numbers are similar... And at the end of the season Adams had great numbers. He spreads it around....

 

[ptisme]

quote]

And with that, I would not disagree. Most WRs are less productive when paired with a lesser QB. That's rather rudimentary.

That has nothing to do with Nelson's athleticism though.[/quote]


So you agree Nelson's numbers are inflated because of Rodgers... Curious, if we gave you Nelson, what do you think his numbers would be this year?

 

[onanygivensunday]

So you agree Nelson's numbers are inflated because of Rodgers... Curious, if we gave you Nelson, what do you think his numbers would be this year?

Not as great as with the Packers.

It's all about the targets.

Nelson had 151 last year.

The most of any Seahawk was Baldwin with 98... or 65% the number of targets that Nelson got.

 

[Ambrose83]

Bull crap! Rogers numbers would be about like they are when Greenbay plays a team that gets in his face as the Hawks do! You guys don't realize how little tallent Wilson has been working with. Heck he is about to get a TE that will be the second player on the offense that would start on most other NFL teams. Lynch and Russell have done what they have done behind an Oline who's most consistent performer is a converted DE. Russell has been throwing to undrafted free agent WRs and back up TE's. You are batty if you actually believe that any QB could have faired better in our offense with the personell we have had.

Except that in the NFCCG Rodgers didn't have any pressure in his face...

"Pitsme" is quite right. . . Aaron Rogers, who is possibly the best passer to ever play in the NFL, didn't have hardly any pressure at all in his face in the NFC championship game against the Seahawks. . . he was only sacked once.

Russell Wilson, at best a pale imitation of Aaron Rogers, was sacked five times.

And you can certainly see the difference in the stats. . . Rogers, the best NFL passer that ever was, gashed the Seahawk defense for. . . .190 yards of offense. Meanwhile, Russell Wilson, in perhaps the worse game of his NFL career, was only able to produce 234 yards of offense against the team that seemed to be sacking him at will.

Another metric to put things in perspective showing Aaron Rogers vastly superior passing ability is the fact that the Rogers had 178 yards of passing offense against a Seattle Defense that gave up an average of 185 yards of passing a game. . . in other words, Rogers was almost as productive as the average quarterback the Seahawks faced during the regular season. Russell Wilson, on the other hand, was only able to pass for 209 yards against the Green Bay defense, which gave up 226 passing yards a game.

And as far as a disparity in talent between the receiving corps. . . any objective observer could see that Green Bay's receivers were much less talented than the group that Russell Wilson was throwing to. Just consider the draft positions of the respective receivers who caught passes in the game. . .

First, for Green Bay. . . .Jordy Nelson, drafted second round in 2008; Randell Cobb. . .drafted second round 2011; Richard Rogers, drafted 3rd round, 2014; Davante Adams, 2nd round 2014; John Kuhn, UDFA; James Starks; sixth round, 2010.

And here's Seattle's pass catchers. . .Doug Baldwin, UDFA, 2011; Jerome Kearse, UDFA, 2012; Marshawn Lynch, 1st round 2007; Ricardo Lockette, UDFA 2011; Garry Gilliam UDFA 2014; Luke Willson, 5th round, 2014; Will Tukuafu; UDFA, 2010; Robert Turbin, 4th round 2012.

So there. . . any objective observer will immediately notice that Russell Wilson had more receivers he could target as compared to Aaron Rogers -- 8 pass catchers, versus only six for Aaron Rogers, and that Russell Wilson had a first round draft choice he was able to throw passes to, while Rogers had to settle for receivers drafted in the second and third rounds.

In spite of this incredible disparity in talent, Rogers was only 44 yards shy of producing as much offense as Russell Wilson.

So. . . that's why it's absurd to think that Russell Wilson should get anywhere near as much compensation for playing quarterback as Aaron Rogers. . . .

Rodgers was also going against an all time great defense at its home where it's very hard to operate and presnap stuff.. Also, there were numerous third downs where I thought Rodgers had a ton of room to scramble and pick up the first down, where he threw the ball away because of the calf.... I'm really looking forward to this matchup at Lambeau... If Seattle can shut him down there I will have even more respect for Seattle's defense, if that's possible...

Lay off the calf excuse, he ran when he needed too, I was there, I saw it all.

 

[MVP53]

quote]

And with that, I would not disagree. Most WRs are less productive when paired with a lesser QB. That's rather rudimentary.

That has nothing to do with Nelson's athleticism though.

So you agree Nelson's numbers are inflated because of Rodgers... Curious, if we gave you Nelson, what do you think his numbers would be this year?[/quote]



Do I agree Jordy Nelson is made better because Aaron Rodgers is his QB? Umm...yes?

And I don't really care to project what his numbers would be with Seattle. He'd have a completely different role.

Again, that's not what I disagreed with. I disagreed with you saying he wasn't athletic.

 

[Seahwkgal]

LOL@ how this became a GB/Jordy Nelson thread instead of Wilson contract extension speculation thread. Keep it up, I am relieved.

 

[pmedic920]

According to this, #3 RW has set a deadline at Friday.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13327 ... ace-friday

And if his reason is that he doesn't want the distraction bleeding into training camp, he just gained a ton of respect from this 12 :{)

 

[SalishHawkFan]

Bull crap! Rogers numbers would be about like they are when Greenbay plays a team that gets in his face as the Hawks do! You guys don't realize how little tallent Wilson has been working with. Heck he is about to get a TE that will be the second player on the offense that would start on most other NFL teams. Lynch and Russell have done what they have done behind an Oline who's most consistent performer is a converted DE. Russell has been throwing to undrafted free agent WRs and back up TE's. You are batty if you actually believe that any QB could have faired better in our offense with the personell we have had.

Except that in the NFCCG Rodgers didn't have any pressure in his face...

"Pitsme" is quite right. . . Aaron Rogers, who is possibly the best passer to ever play in the NFL, didn't have hardly any pressure at all in his face in the NFC championship game against the Seahawks. . . he was only sacked once.

Russell Wilson, at best a pale imitation of Aaron Rogers, was sacked five times.

And you can certainly see the difference in the stats. . . Rogers, the best NFL passer that ever was, gashed the Seahawk defense for. . . .190 yards of offense. Meanwhile, Russell Wilson, in perhaps the worse game of his NFL career, was only able to produce 234 yards of offense against the team that seemed to be sacking him at will.

Another metric to put things in perspective showing Aaron Rogers vastly superior passing ability is the fact that the Rogers had 178 yards of passing offense against a Seattle Defense that gave up an average of 185 yards of passing a game. . . in other words, Rogers was almost as productive as the average quarterback the Seahawks faced during the regular season. Russell Wilson, on the other hand, was only able to pass for 209 yards against the Green Bay defense, which gave up 226 passing yards a game.

And as far as a disparity in talent between the receiving corps. . . any objective observer could see that Green Bay's receivers were much less talented than the group that Russell Wilson was throwing to. Just consider the draft positions of the respective receivers who caught passes in the game. . .

First, for Green Bay. . . .Jordy Nelson, drafted second round in 2008; Randell Cobb. . .drafted second round 2011; Richard Rogers, drafted 3rd round, 2014; Davante Adams, 2nd round 2014; John Kuhn, UDFA; James Starks; sixth round, 2010.

And here's Seattle's pass catchers. . .Doug Baldwin, UDFA, 2011; Jerome Kearse, UDFA, 2012; Marshawn Lynch, 1st round 2007; Ricardo Lockette, UDFA 2011; Garry Gilliam UDFA 2014; Luke Willson, 5th round, 2014; Will Tukuafu; UDFA, 2010; Robert Turbin, 4th round 2012.

So there. . . any objective observer will immediately notice that Russell Wilson had more receivers he could target as compared to Aaron Rogers -- 8 pass catchers, versus only six for Aaron Rogers, and that Russell Wilson had a first round draft choice he was able to throw passes to, while Rogers had to settle for receivers drafted in the second and third rounds.

In spite of this incredible disparity in talent, Rogers was only 44 yards shy of producing as much offense as Russell Wilson.

So. . . that's why it's absurd to think that Russell Wilson should get anywhere near as much compensation for playing quarterback as Aaron Rogers. . . .

:bow:

 

[Northwest Seahawk]

According to this, #3 RW has set a deadline at Friday.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13327 ... ace-friday

And if his reason is that he doesn't want the distraction bleeding into training camp, he just gained a ton of respect from this 12 :{)

I don't see it and he can't control it. His refusal to sign will be a distraction on some level no matter what he says.

 

[pmedic920]

I don't see it and he can't control it. His refusal to sign will be a distraction on some level no matter what he says.

Sure it is, and I have no clue as what his reasons are. He could be just playing the hand as its being laid out.

Ending negotiations prior to the start of trading camp CAN and WILL minimize the distractions that he has to deal with.
Again, if that's his reason for setting the deadline, he gets huge props from me.
:{)

 

[jammerhawk]

We all need to have some patience on this. Both sides seem to want to make a deal and it would appear they are reasonably close though they may not be over guaranteed money, but that could change before Friday and the artificial deadline which could also be changed.

The reality that Rodgers has come to Seattle to continue their talks seems to me to be a positive sign that they are getting to the short strokes in this negotiation.

 

[Hawkpower]

My statement isnt pointless because:

A. The original statement was that Wilson was better than Rodgers because he has better rushing numbers, which is beyond ridiculous.

B. I disagree with your assessment that the passing game problems we have are all attributed to everyone BUT Wilson. There is plenty of tape to show our receivers getting separation while Wilson holds the ball. Other QB's when blitzed find the hot receiver at their backfoot and nobody notices the o-line. Wilson scrambles left, right, dodges eludes, and sometimes hits a miracle play with his athletic gifts. But because of the drama, we all say DARN THAT O-LINE!!!

As fans, because Wilson is our QB and we love him, its a lot easier to blame other reasons for our struggles. And some of them are valid. Our oline does struggle at times. Our receivers certainly arent perfect. But there is PLENTY of evidence to support Wilson playing a significant role in the struggles as well. Which is fine, he's learning. But he is opening himself up to this type of critique by deciding his value lies at the top of the heap.

You're right on one part of your Statement, it isn't pointless....It's absurd.
You are ATTEMPTING to diminish that one advantage that Russell Wilson has over Aaron Rodgers, and that is his ability to scramble for nearly 900 Yards last Season.
This is a huge attribute to Wilson's Quarterback play, and NOT a detriment to be able to scramble like that when sometimes that "DARN" O-Line caves in and allows a Defender come through UNTOUCHED.
It's an ADDED feature that puts him right up there with the greats.
It's his Passing ---> AND <--- Running that makes him one of the BEST........ not Passing,---> OR <--- Running.
And as far as people believing that there are no Coaches that would rather have a Quarterback that can throw the ball, and not run with it?....Bullshit.... if your Quarterback has the ability to run, and is under pressure, you'd be a fool if you didn't take advantage of a weakness in the Defense, and scramble for the first down.
MOST Quarterbacks will scramble when they are in a pinch, Russell Wilson is just much better at it than MOST other Quarterbacks in the League, and with the sometimes shitty protection that the O-Line gives, it's a damned good thing he has the mobility/ability to do it.

It appears as if this response was somewhat aimed at my post....although to be honest I am a bit confused as to your point....

I was addressing the argument someone made (maybe it was you, I have no idea) that Wilson was better than Rodgers based solely on his running ability.

I said that was absurd. Which it is.

I never said scrambling wasnt a nice attribute to have, but if I have to chose passing accuracy and reading defenses OR scrambling ability, I know which one I value more in a QB.

To argue otherwise is just arguing for the sake of it. Tim Tebow is a better runner than Matt Ryan, but nobody values Tebow as a QB over Ryan simply because he could rush for more TD's.

 

[Northwest Seahawk]

I don't see it and he can't control it. His refusal to sign will be a distraction on some level no matter what he says.

Sure it is, and I have no clue as what his reasons are. He could be just playing the hand as its being laid out.

Ending negotiations prior to the start of trading camp CAN and WILL minimize the distractions that he has to deal with.
Again, if that's his reason for setting the deadline, he gets huge props from me.
:{)

So the media and the fans are just going to forget about his contact status because Wilson says the talks are over because he doesn't want it to cause a distraction . Ya right.

 

[BlueTalon]

BTW, Rodgers stats first three years as a starter blow Wilson's out of the water.

Rodgers' first three years as a starter followed a four year apprenticeship. And it really doesn't matter which of his stats are better than Wilson's, because Wilson's stats are better in the only category that matters -- wins.

 

[kearly]

Assuming the offer is in 'new money', the Seahawks offer is still too low. Wilson is not going to settle for Kaep/Newton money, nor should he.

I would be surprised if Wilson signs a deal this week. Whatever he is offered today, he will be offered significantly more a year from now. Given how much Wilson's value will jump after a year with Jimmy Graham and Luck setting the market with his upcoming megadeal, I'm not sure Wilson would even accept Aaron Rodgers type money at this point.