Sherman Going down isnt the end of the world

[NOLAHawk]

Maybe Quinn can give KRichard some tips at the galf?

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

 

[SeaChat]

I'm bewildered by a number of Seahawk fans, in this thread, in particular, but in many of their other post as well, that continuously give no props or recognition to the present Seahawks offense or defense and the strides they have made this season, and their collective potential to accomplish some really big things this season.

A little reality therapy is in order here I think. The Seahawks team that made it to the super bowl and won, and the one that lost, wasn't as good as, in many respects, as the collective units we have right now. We got wins in a lot of our games back then, on pure good luck and play calling that went our way.

Our Offense is right now, for the first time in a long while, delivering both a viable running game and passing game too our opponents. I think sometimes we tend to recall things as being much better than what they actually were. When our line is able to create creases for Rawls, he delivers like few other Running Backs can, presently or historically, looking back to Rawls stats, when he filled in for Marshawn, who couldn't stay healthy or get anything going in his run game at that juncture of his career, proved to all of us that he is the real deal, and deserves every opportunity we can give him to show us we got it right.

Duane Brown is making a difference in our offence and more specifically in our run game. Our passing game, while not always pretty, is effective, and statistically, Russell's numbers are off the charts and better than most other comparable QBs in the league. Why you think this present collective of players cant compete with, and more importantly defeat any team out there, I'll never understand.

Can they be defeated? Sure, its pro football, ups and downs, good call, bad calls, anything is possible. one thing is for sure, any team out there that thinks the Seahawks can't or won't whip their ass, is deluding themselves, and are most likely going to have their butts handed to them. I have never lost sight of the crazy wonderful spirit that drives this team to places that many never thought possible, and often times makes it look easy doing it. Most importantly that have shut our critics up, when they had counted us out.

I hope the Seahawks shut their own worst critques up , which are many of their own proclaimed fans, who have no faith in their own team, and offer up only pessimism and harsh criticisms,. by doing what only the Seattle Seahawks can do and that is deliver by catching fire thru November and December, and set themselves up, for another shot at the Super Bowl Title in 2018.

If they manage to get er done, I wonder how many of our critical fans, who refused to acknowledge what incredible strides, were made by both our offense and defense this season, will be posting about how they always believed in them, and how they were always confident they knew they could do it, never doubted them, not even for a second. It would be refreshing if all the hyper critics and doubters would simply say "pass the salt and pepper please, I've got serious serving of crow to swallow" when that time arrives ,

I'll be on record right here and right now, that I have seen incredible progress in both our offense and defense this season. We have some incredible young talents who have risen to the challenges placed before them, and the additions and returns of experienced veterans to our lineups, and who all combined have given the Seahawks a very real chance of winning it all and showing the world the magic of the 12th man, and the spirit of the Seattle Seahawks is truly well and very much alive.

go Seahawks !

 

[Smellyman]

See my previous post. It hasn't been 1 to 1 with ET this year and last. The only thing we know is that we don't know.

Man, if the coaching staff has the same lackadaisical anticipation of drop off as some of you, the defense is gonna get roasted. You don't need to know exactly what the dropoff will be to anticipate and plan around a drop off. Going into the sitaution basically agnostic of our own team's current strengths and weaknesses seems backwards.

Nah, shading will happen, as it always has, with ET. Film study will give them an idea of what needs to happen. Communication will be key, as it always has.

I don't always say what's on my mind in here because most people don't get it anyway. For instance, I've seen more 2 man press and 2 deep man this year than previous years. If we start to bleed, we might even see more of it.

But we have to wait and see. We may not need to and we might continue to mix more in anyway. Blitzing might reduce, but again, we'll have to wait and see.

I wish you would say more stuff like the 2nd paragraph because I totally get it and agree.

I don't..man that is super smart.

 

[chris98251]

I'm bewildered by a number of Seahawk fans, in this thread, in particular, but in many of their other post as well, that continuously give no props or recognition to the present Seahawks offense or defense and the strides they have made this season, and their collective potential to accomplish some really big things this season.

A little reality therapy is in order here I think. The Seahawks team that made it to the super bowl and won, and the one that lost, wasn't as good as, in many respects, as the collective units we have right now. We got wins in a lot of our games back then, on pure good luck and play calling that went our way.

Our Offense is right now, for the first time in a long while, delivering both a viable running game and passing game too our opponents. I think sometimes we tend to recall things as being much better than what they actually were. When our line is able to create creases for Rawls, he delivers like few other Running Backs can, presently or historically, looking back to Rawls stats, when he filled in for Marshawn, who couldn't stay healthy or get anything going in his run game at that juncture of his career, proved to all of us that he is the real deal, and deserves every opportunity we can give him to show us we got it right.

Duane Brown is making a difference in our offence and more specifically in our run game. Our passing game, while not always pretty, is effective, and statistically, Russell's numbers are off the charts and better than most other comparable QBs in the league. Why you think this present collective of players cant compete with, and more importantly defeat any team out there, I'll never understand.

Can they be defeated? Sure, its pro football, ups and downs, good call, bad calls, anything is possible. one thing is for sure, any team out there that thinks the Seahawks can't or won't whip their ass, is deluding themselves, and are most likely going to have their butts handed to them. I have never lost sight of the crazy wonderful spirit that drives this team to places that many never thought possible, and often times makes it look easy doing it. Most importantly that have shut our critics up, when they had counted us out.

I hope the Seahawks shut their own worst critques up , which are many of their own proclaimed fans, who have no faith in their own team, and offer up only pessimism and harsh criticisms,. by doing what only the Seattle Seahawks can do and that is deliver by catching fire thru November and December, and set themselves up, for another shot at the Super Bowl Title in 2018.

If they manage to get er done, I wonder how many of our critical fans, who refused to acknowledge what incredible strides, were made by both our offense and defense this season, will be posting about how they always believed in them, and how they were always confident they knew they could do it, never doubted them, not even for a second. It would be refreshing if all the hyper critics and doubters would simply say "pass the salt and pepper please, I've got serious serving of crow to swallow" when that time arrives ,

I'll be on record right here and right now, that I have seen incredible progress in both our offense and defense this season. We have some incredible young talents who have risen to the challenges placed before them, and the additions and returns of experienced veterans to our lineups, and who all combined have given the Seahawks a very real chance of winning it all and showing the world the magic of the 12th man, and the spirit of the Seattle Seahawks is truly well and very much alive.

go Seahawks !

You down talk fans that see critical issues, and call them over critical fans, when your a shit show on offense all you can do is go up, our line has been bottom feeders for three years, despite being drafted at respectable rounds for talent. Other teams seem to be able to use pretty much anyone and have a respectable showing. Saying our offense is respectable and that we have a running game is just ignoring the facts, we suck, Wilson being included in the Stats sway them, ignore his contributions in desperation and what do we have.

Sorry not buying the spiked Kool Aide, having watched football no for 50 years plus I can see a respectable or a good offense, I also know what a broken offense looks like. Remember when Warner went down and Knox brought in just about every Running back he could find, Franco Harris anyone? He finally had to concede his philosophy had to change to win games and put the ball in Krieg's hands.

 

[KiwiHawk]

Why not? It happened last year when Earl went down.

So they are the exact same person, therefor the exact same outcome?



Sherman and the D got torched against Houston and we managed to beat a good team that played very well.

I'm appreciating the irony of posting the Spock picture and then using an exceptional case as the norm.

Yes, we beat Houston in a shootout, but that's not exactly a representative performance by our offense this season. If they don't figure a way to put up points on a regular basis, they're putting a hell of a lot of pressure on the defense. Keep in mind we beat Houston courtesy of two Sherman interceptions and a pick-six from Thomas in addition to Wilson's heroics. Without Sherman, do we win that game?

Having said that, Carroll knows secondary, and knows how to use Byron Maxwell, who was not used properly by the Eagles or Dolphins. Maxwell needs to get physical at the line, not drop back and run with people. He could return to form as a decent corner in our environment.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I'm bewildered by a number of Seahawk fans, in this thread, in particular, but in many of their other post as well, that continuously give no props or recognition to the present Seahawks offense or defense and the strides they have made this season, and their collective potential to accomplish some really big things this season.

The only strides I see is an improved front line with Richardson and some good at times play from a couple of rookies in Shaq and Coleman. Thats on defense. Besides the signing of Brown on the Oline (who has played about 1 game for us), what strides on offense have we made? Its the same crap show as last season with a worse run game. I think its a regression actually.

A little reality therapy is in order here I think. The Seahawks team that made it to the super bowl and won, and the one that lost, wasn't as good as, in many respects, as the collective units we have right now. We got wins in a lot of our games back then, on pure good luck and play calling that went our way.

Your crazy. We were better in every aspect in 2013 and 2014 than we are now. We've never been able to replace Browner even to this day, our Oline was better all the way across, we still miss tate, Marshawn Lynch, we were younger, faster, hungrier. No idea how you can make such a statement to be honest. I guess we have Jimmy Graham now and he looks great on paper, but I would much rather have a healthy Zach Miller. Pure luck wins? Revisit the Rams game and the half inch we were away from losing that. 41 against the Texans which rarely ever happens. Theres no difference.

Our Offense is right now, for the first time in a long while, delivering both a viable running game and passing game too our opponents. I think sometimes we tend to recall things as being much better than what they actually were. When our line is able to create creases for Rawls, he delivers like few other Running Backs can, presently or historically, looking back to Rawls stats, when he filled in for Marshawn, who couldn't stay healthy or get anything going in his run game at that juncture of his career, proved to all of us that he is the real deal, and deserves every opportunity we can give him to show us we got it right.

Viable run game? We have absolutely NO run game. This team is so sad at running the ball that our QB leads the team in yardage. Rawls has done nothing this season. Nothing. Viable running game,,,,,,,,insane.

Duane Brown is making a difference in our offence and more specifically in our run game. Our passing game, while not always pretty, is effective, and statistically, Russell's numbers are off the charts and better than most other comparable QBs in the league. Why you think this present collective of players cant compete with, and more importantly defeat any team out there, I'll never understand.

Brown is a nice pick up but he hasent made much an impact yet. We still cant run the ball. Like I said, its nice to have a stud at LT, but when the other pieces stink to high heaven, its kind of a moot point. As for Wilson, he's playing lights out for the majority of the time, but thats because he has to. Sure we can beat any team, but we arent good enough that I feel they can do so on a consistent basis. Lets face it, nobody is afraid of the Seahawks right now and for good reason. We arent what we used to be.

Can they be defeated? Sure, its pro football, ups and downs, good call, bad calls, anything is possible. one thing is for sure, any team out there that thinks the Seahawks can't or won't whip their ass, is deluding themselves, and are most likely going to have their butts handed to them. I have never lost sight of the crazy wonderful spirit that drives this team to places that many never thought possible, and often times makes it look easy doing it. Most importantly that have shut our critics up, when they had counted us out.

They havent shut anybody up. A lot of people lose sight of whats really going on because we are fans of the team, but this team is broken right now and has been for awhile (since the worst play call in SB history in my opinion, but lets not get into that conversation). In 2015 when the Panthers destroyed us in the playoffs (admit it, they let up big time in the 2nd and the score didnt look as bad as it really was), I stepped back and said 'Woah', something aint right here. Last year I didnt give us a chance against Atlanta because I was being realistic. We got beat up on. This year I counted the Packers as a sure loss. You saw what happened. I give this team a 0% chance of winning the SB this season or even making it to that point. Playoffs would be a triumph right now The team is in a horrid regression but die hard fans cant see it for some reason.

I hope the Seahawks shut their own worst critques up , which are many of their own proclaimed fans, who have no faith in their own team, and offer up only pessimism and harsh criticisms,. by doing what only the Seattle Seahawks can do and that is deliver by catching fire thru November and December, and set themselves up, for another shot at the Super Bowl Title in 2018.

I sincerely hope your right, but I dont have enough confidence in the coaching staff to believe it can happen.

If they manage to get er done, I wonder how many of our critical fans, who refused to acknowledge what incredible strides, were made by both our offense and defense this season, will be posting about how they always believed in them, and how they were always confident they knew they could do it, never doubted them, not even for a second. It would be refreshing if all the hyper critics and doubters would simply say "pass the salt and pepper please, I've got serious serving of crow to swallow" when that time arrives ,

I'll be the very first person in line to eat that crow and hope to goodness I am, but I dont think anybodys in a rush to pluck that bird at this time.

I'll be on record right here and right now, that I have seen incredible progress in both our offense and defense this season. We have some incredible young talents who have risen to the challenges placed before them, and the additions and returns of experienced veterans to our lineups, and who all combined have given the Seahawks a very real chance of winning it all and showing the world the magic of the 12th man, and the spirit of the Seattle Seahawks is truly well and very much alive.

go Seahawks !

I'm going on record now stating that its going to be a tough road even making the playoffs with our regressing offense and a defense that is now missing a key player within the LOB while the others are barely hanging on as is.

Go Seahawks

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Wow, gonna' go kick some puppies now too? :lol:

I'd rather believe in the team, and have them lose, than assume the worst and be right about it. To each his own.
I don't get the assuming the worst stuff, just like people don't get my positive outlook. It is what it is. I just sometimes wonder what would be fun about doom and gloom? Seems like a lot of work :2thumbs:

 

[pittpnthrs]

Pretending the problems dont exist doesnt get rid of them.

 

[DJrmb]

Pretending the problems dont exist doesnt get rid of them.

Neither does worrying about them, so essentially you're doing exactly the same...

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Assuming the worst and acting like the world has come to end doesn't help either.
Might as well say they are going 6-10

 

[vin.couve12]

These things have nothing to do with fan's belief or disbelief. We will likely just go out and play our game. Meaning, study film, check machups, gameplan, etc. And if we need to make adjustments then we'll do so.

You don't go into anything in life thinking all is lost and saying "can't." If you do....well, you have other issues and I don't know wtf to tell you except seek help. By that same token, you also don't go into anything in life lackadaisical like some silver spoon brat.

It's not that complicated. We'll prepare, execute the gameplan, and adjust accordingly. Calm down...

 

[MontanaHawk05]

In 2015 when the Panthers destroyed us in the playoffs (admit it, they let up big time in the 2nd and the score didnt look as bad as it really was), I stepped back and said 'Woah', something aint right here. Last year I didnt give us a chance against Atlanta because I was being realistic. We got beat up on. This year I counted the Packers as a sure loss. You saw what happened.

Bragging about your loss predictions isn't convincing when you predict the result but miss the reasons.

The 2015 loss came from Wilson playing poorly in the first half - something you haven't criticized.

Atlanta happened from a couple freak plays creating a 14-point swing and momentum never going back our way, plus losing Earl Thomas - again, not a factor you've acknowledged.

The Packers was a 17-9 loss, on the road, induced half by drops and half by terrible officiating. Not a blowout.

You use the phrase "this team" in highly generic fashion and neglect the fact that the team has a winning record. You point out losses that occurred because of factors you haven't mentioned, not some highly vague "regression". Then you turn around and say "the only reason people don't agree with me is because they're blinded by fandom" or similar such statements. None of it is convincing.

This team is better along both lines than it was in 2016. We've got one of the league's most productive tight ends (yes, still, go look at the actual stats) and a heck of a trio of wide receivers. We got to the playoffs in 2015 and 2016 despite being just as bad in the run game as we are now. In the end, all that really matters in this league is the QB. Take a look at how many Packers were on IR in 2010 when they won it all.

And what are you talking about, "barely hanging on". Earl Thomas was having an amazing season and Kam Chancellor has had a particularly brilliant two weeks.

Richard Sherman is a brutal blow. But losing because he's out and losing because "we're regressing" are two different things.

 

[mrt144]

In 2015 when the Panthers destroyed us in the playoffs (admit it, they let up big time in the 2nd and the score didnt look as bad as it really was), I stepped back and said 'Woah', something aint right here. Last year I didnt give us a chance against Atlanta because I was being realistic. We got beat up on. This year I counted the Packers as a sure loss. You saw what happened.

Bragging about your loss predictions isn't convincing when you predict the result but miss the reasons.

The 2015 loss came from Wilson playing poorly in the first half - something you haven't criticized.

Atlanta happened from a couple freak plays creating a 14-point swing and momentum never going back our way, plus losing Earl Thomas - again, not a factor you've acknowledged.

The Packers was a 17-9 loss, on the road, induced half by drops and half by terrible officiating. Not a blowout.

You use the phrase "this team" in highly generic fashion and neglect the fact that the team has a winning record. You point out losses that occurred because of factors you haven't mentioned, not some highly vague "regression". Then you turn around and say "the only reason people don't agree with me is because they're blinded by fandom" or similar such statements. None of it is convincing.

This team is better along both lines than it was in 2016. We've got one of the league's most productive tight ends (yes, still, go look at the actual stats) and a heck of a trio of wide receivers. We got to the playoffs in 2015 and 2016 despite being just as bad in the run game as we are now. In the end, all that really matters in this league is the QB. Take a look at how many Packers were on IR in 2010 when they won it all.

And what are you talking about, "barely hanging on". Earl Thomas was having an amazing season and Kam Chancellor has had a particularly brilliant two weeks.

Richard Sherman is a brutal blow. But losing because he's out and losing because "we're regressing" are two different things.

I don't think you're actualizing how bad the run game is now compared to prior years. I think you're diminishing prior years relative triumphs to raise the profile on this season's run game which runs contra to what we can observe.

Our YPC in 2016 is similar to 2017s, 3.9 and 3.8 respectively. But from 2012-2015 that number was at its lowest at 4.3 YPC.

So that is some 'decline'

But lets go to some contextual meat and potatoes.

Red zone rushing is at an all time worst for the 2012-2017 Hawks as well as being the #32 in the league at current.

You will need a Premium Stats subscription to view the source I believe:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/premiu ... ARI&week=1

In fact, how about you read this little analysis I did that shows our drive efficiency stats tanking. 2016 was the first time from 2012-2016 that the defense was distinctly off and we have a known factor in Earl Thomas as a contributor to that no doubt. But the offense itself showed signs of decline and we had a known factor in RW being injured contributing there. I made a math error on my first go around that I caught in the update after Week 10 and the picture it paints is a slow stepping stone decline where seasons are almost coupled - 2012 is similar to 2013, 2014 to 2015, 2016 to 2017, and in each case of coupling the drive efficiency getting worse and worse. Currently in 2017, the Hawks are underperfoming their historical average by a full standard deviation on 6/7 of the drive efficiency calculations related to points, TDs, punts and 3 and outs.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2017/11/9/16 ... -2012-2016

That seems to coalesce with our RZ rushing also taking a huge dive.

Within those stats you can also see how our 3 and Out rate is 2nd worst in the league and almost double the high water mark set in 2014.

So while I agree with you wholly that the tack of shouting down contrary opinions as being the result of overzealous fandom is wrong and useless, there is smoke there if you're willing to do some digging and nerd out for an hour or two. There are a lot of factors that come into play, a lot of contextual stuff that tinges the edges of the numbers but I think there is a much clearer statistical case to be made for a declining offense over time than there is to suggest this season isn't materially different from prior ones.

Except on defense. Where 2016 was an aberration with a causal link to ET at the very least. In fact, this years defense is overperforming historical mean by a standard deviation in 3 and Outs per drive which is pretty nifty.

 

[pittpnthrs]

In 2015 when the Panthers destroyed us in the playoffs (admit it, they let up big time in the 2nd and the score didnt look as bad as it really was), I stepped back and said 'Woah', something aint right here. Last year I didnt give us a chance against Atlanta because I was being realistic. We got beat up on. This year I counted the Packers as a sure loss. You saw what happened.

Bragging about your loss predictions isn't convincing when you predict the result but miss the reasons.

The 2015 loss came from Wilson playing poorly in the first half - something you haven't criticized.

Atlanta happened from a couple freak plays creating a 14-point swing and momentum never going back our way, plus losing Earl Thomas - again, not a factor you've acknowledged.

The Packers was a 17-9 loss, on the road, induced half by drops and half by terrible officiating. Not a blowout.

You use the phrase "this team" in highly generic fashion and neglect the fact that the team has a winning record. You point out losses that occurred because of factors you haven't mentioned, not some highly vague "regression". Then you turn around and say "the only reason people don't agree with me is because they're blinded by fandom" or similar such statements. None of it is convincing.

This team is better along both lines than it was in 2016. We've got one of the league's most productive tight ends (yes, still, go look at the actual stats) and a heck of a trio of wide receivers. We got to the playoffs in 2015 and 2016 despite being just as bad in the run game as we are now. In the end, all that really matters in this league is the QB. Take a look at how many Packers were on IR in 2010 when they won it all.

And what are you talking about, "barely hanging on". Earl Thomas was having an amazing season and Kam Chancellor has had a particularly brilliant two weeks.

Richard Sherman is a brutal blow. But losing because he's out and losing because "we're regressing" are two different things.

Who cares how and why we lost,,,,we lost. Theres always an excuse as to why. The Falcons loss in the playoffs is a perfect example. A couple freak plays that killed momentum? They outscored us for 3 straight quarters. Thats a heck of a momentum swing. They were just flat out better than we were.

By 'barely hanging on' I meant they are just coming back from injury and that could go south real quick.

Sorry, but I dont see this team being any better than its been the last couple years. The loss to Washington and the offensive struggles have cemented that. I see the same pattern happening that will include an early exit in the playoffs if they even make the playoffs and no coaching changes to remedy the slide. I hope i'm wrong.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Go Hawks!

 

[mrt144]

In 2015 when the Panthers destroyed us in the playoffs (admit it, they let up big time in the 2nd and the score didnt look as bad as it really was), I stepped back and said 'Woah', something aint right here. Last year I didnt give us a chance against Atlanta because I was being realistic. We got beat up on. This year I counted the Packers as a sure loss. You saw what happened.

Bragging about your loss predictions isn't convincing when you predict the result but miss the reasons.

The 2015 loss came from Wilson playing poorly in the first half - something you haven't criticized.

Atlanta happened from a couple freak plays creating a 14-point swing and momentum never going back our way, plus losing Earl Thomas - again, not a factor you've acknowledged.

The Packers was a 17-9 loss, on the road, induced half by drops and half by terrible officiating. Not a blowout.

You use the phrase "this team" in highly generic fashion and neglect the fact that the team has a winning record. You point out losses that occurred because of factors you haven't mentioned, not some highly vague "regression". Then you turn around and say "the only reason people don't agree with me is because they're blinded by fandom" or similar such statements. None of it is convincing.

This team is better along both lines than it was in 2016. We've got one of the league's most productive tight ends (yes, still, go look at the actual stats) and a heck of a trio of wide receivers. We got to the playoffs in 2015 and 2016 despite being just as bad in the run game as we are now. In the end, all that really matters in this league is the QB. Take a look at how many Packers were on IR in 2010 when they won it all.

And what are you talking about, "barely hanging on". Earl Thomas was having an amazing season and Kam Chancellor has had a particularly brilliant two weeks.

Richard Sherman is a brutal blow. But losing because he's out and losing because "we're regressing" are two different things.

Who cares how and why we lost,,,,we lost. Theres always an excuse as to why. The Falcons loss in the playoffs is a perfect example. A couple freak plays that killed momentum? They outscored us for 3 straight quarters. Thats a heck of a momentum swing. They were just flat out better than we were.

By 'barely hanging on' I meant they are just coming back from injury and that could go south real quick.

Sorry, but I dont see this team being any better than its been the last couple years. The loss to Washington and the offensive struggles have cemented that. I see the same pattern happening that will include an early exit in the playoffs if they even make the playoffs and no coaching changes to remedy the slide. I hope i'm wrong.

Dude, the whys are the entire lubricant for conversation. Come on.

 

[Seymour]

Don't forget to enjoy the ride. :twisted:

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Who cares how and why we lost

It matters because if you're going to call for drastic action by the front office, you should have your reasons right if you want to be taken seriously.

For example, because it was Earl Thomas' absence that tanked our 2016 defense, very few people expected the same performance once he was back (or if they did, they weren't taken seriously). The Falcons game was a high-flying offense and peaking QB without said Earl Thomas. Of course they were going to outscore us. That doesn't mean the same would happen once he was back.

It's not exactly daring to predict that your team will fall short of the Super Bowl. 31 out of 32 fans in the country will get that one right. 11 out of 12 playoff fanbases will also get that one right. It doesn't mean you're a bad team. It just means not everyone can make the big dance.

 

[adeltaY]

Dude we got our asses kicked straight up in Atlanta. They scored on a 99 yard drive on 10 straight pass plays. That is pure domination.

That being said, this Falcons team hasn't looked nearly as good and we can beat them by a good margin!

 

[hawksfanohio]

I think last year when we lost Earl, we were vulnerable because of the lack of depth on defense. This year is a different story. With the way the front 7 is playing and the potential there with Bennett, Jordan, Clark, Jones, Reed, etc. and we still have KJ and Wagz, this is still a team that can shut down anybody. I like the secondary's chances based on talent even without Sherm and Kam. I love the depth in the secondary this year with Griffin, Coleman, Lane, Maxwell, Shead, McDougald, and Earl being back to QB the secondary I think k will do fine. I'm not as worried as last year, but time will tell.