Simms: Packers showed how to keep Wilson in the pocket

[pehawk]

Every team Seattle has played since 2010 has stacked the box.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I disagree. GB didn't start playing Zero coverage until the running game and RO started clicking. HaHa CD was in center field for a lot of the game until RW and Lynch started shredding them at the end.

If you rewatch the game you'll see that GB was in cover 1 almost the entire game, mixed in with cover zero and a little cover 2 if it was 3rd and long.

Add in one of the LB's or the SS Burnett spying Russell, and it makes it tough for Bevell to call a RO play, or Russell to audible to it.

Once again, you gotta complete those quick hitters or post/seam routes to back those guys off.

It's funny that some of you guys just think "OMG, Bevell and Russell must have forgot about the RO the entire game and then remembered in the 4th quarter!"

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Correct because before 2012 we had nothing at quarterback after Hasselbeck was gone and we still don't have anything above average for wide receivers.

 

[LickMyNuts]

We were not able to sustain drives in the first half. This kept the run game in check. Also Green Bay was able to guess pretty well in that first half.

On the sprint out throws to the right there was constant pressure in RW face. Mostly, because Bailey was getting shoved back at the line of scrimmage. This made it difficult for RW to see his receivers and it didn't allow him that outside edge.

I don't know if the Patriots have a guy like Luke Keuchly or Clay Mathews that can spy RW and take him down in the open field. I'm thinking they don't and that may be the difference in the game if it is close.

 

[Northhawk]

Realize that NE changes things up lots but do they still run a base 3-4 D? If so, how do we do against 3-4 D's?

 

[AgentDib]

I do think that RW keeps himself in the pocket as much as anything, especially early in games, for the same reasons that he is reluctant to keep the ball on the RO early in the game. It's mostly risk aversion - both personal and team - along with a minor element of wanting to show he can beat teams with his arm and that he is not just a RB playing QB. I've also heard a few suggest that they are intentionally limiting RW's carries before the half in order to reduce half-time adjustments and to have something in reserve, but I'm not sure I buy that angle at all.

What's amazing all year theres been good discussions, after every game, talking in very specific terms, and none of the Bevell defenders have ever participated in those threads.

How good can the discussions have been? It's dangerous to divide a complex issue into two opposing viewpoints and then have a discussion on one side, as you end up with an echo chamber that throws away all the reasonable fifty shades of gray in the middle. I'll bet that if you were to conduct a fan-base poll on Bevell's rank among OCs that 'average' would come in behind both the 'completely sucks' crowd and the 'better than average' crowd.

 

[pehawk]

True enough, Dib. It irks me because I enjoy good debate, and when specifics are being discussed the debate is informative and grand. In fact, you once changed my mind on a few of Bevell points. You came up with an angle I hadn't thought of and I loved it.

 

[DrDix]

I don't get it. How do fans of our own team not understand what Russ himself has said, multiple, multiple, multiple times.

Teams 'contain' Russ because he is NEVER trying to run...Like he scrambles around to throw, never run. It only happens when necessary or when doing the RO which is almost never. I am fully convinced on a 3rd and 10 he takes a 2 yard throw over running for the first. He is that stubborn with always looking to throw.

 

[Bobblehead]

In the end, I just think Wilson Running gives the offense a whole new element for the D to think about.
Frankly I wish he would just rush a few times earlier to keep the defense honest.

Logically that makes sense but I don't think they do it because Wilson really doesn't want to run anymore then he has to and he knows that the game is always decided in the 4th quarter unless for some reason we're down by 20+ points (Atlanta). So I think he's thinking why run unless absolutely necessary because of the above and the fact that he trusts that his teammates are capable of making a play, it's pretty obvious he trusts Kearse given he threw to him five times with four of them being intercepted and the last one being the money play.

Basically is it wrong to assume that if you're an NFL quarterback that your wide receivers are capable of doing their damned jobs and catching a ball now and again? Given if they do then Wilson doesn't need to be running like a running back. Scramble around? Sure, but designed running ten times a game? No.

Well you are right, Russell tries to win the game first conventionally, but only starts to run when it appears the game is getting out of hand.

I think Defenses can only really stop one option well, two at the most, but once you have 3 options you really start to tax the D. Wilson gives us that 2nd option and opens up the 3rd option.

 

[Seafan]

Heaven forbid we criticize Bevell. He's above reproach. The Hawks route concepts and designs are top shelf. He's quick to adjust and always has an answers for the blitz.

Bevell is average. The best part of Bevell is Cable's run concepts. The passing attack hasn't progressed in his time here. He's still prone to odd decisions that defy common sense. He's an incredibly slow starter, who's slow starts get masked by an elite defense.

The pavlovian response to any criticism to him is ridiculous. He's average. X and O analysts routinely call the passing game a high school offense. And average is okay on this team, it truly is.

What's amazing all year theres been good discussions, after every game, talking in very specific terms, and none of the Bevell defenders have ever participated in those threads. None of them participated in a thread by me, giving him props, for the blitz beaters installed in Arizona game. None of the defenders participated in any of those weekly threads, just the threads where they can safely hide behind vague catch phrases.

No one is saying he sucks. He's Andy Dalton.

Agreed.

I didn't say a bad thing about Bevell. There just seems to be a knee jerk reaction when facts about the offense are stated that don't flatter Bevell.

The running game was doing so much better in the first half than the passing game and he kept passing the ball. The game plan to avoid the RO when Green Bay is notoriously inept at defending it is mind boggling. Bevell played into Green Bay's few defensive strengths. And completely unnecessarily. You Bevell lovers don't have to worry. No team is going to hire him away from Seattle.

 

[hawk45]

Stacked box and/or spy isn't new. R/O may not gash them but it very well could force them out of their cover 1 and into a zone if Russ does manage to elude the spy.
But if all the read options we saw were true options and Russ just declined to keep it, as Dib said could be Russ being risk averse. Wish we knew on those.

In the Simms interview Simms mentioned Brady threw to his first read a ton vs the colts because the NE route trees and formations almost always get someone open quickly. He contrasted that with Seattle. That's not very helpful for Russ when his receivers are physically limited. Good thing Russ can escape and can throw at guys with little to no separation.
I felt like on the two point conversion we saw a reprise of our favorite 3 wideouts in a phone booth design. Saved by sandlot. Luke wasn't supposed to release but did. Russ whirls and dekes.

 

[IndyHawk]

Green Bay contained him by having nearly every pass Wilson threw being intercepted or dropped. Do you really think Wilson is going to throw four interceptions in one game in the near future again?

This and really there was chances for him to run but he waited to long to do it and waited too long early on to pass too..There were wrs getting open ..You can't blame the line or Bev ..Fox had the cam behind the qb so there are no excuses..For whatever reason he was off for most of the game and I'm sure the tipped passes for ints didn't help but he forced 1 into double coverage..He of course redeemed himself and won so it's all good..

 

[pehawk]

Someone sent me a PM this week giving his thoughts after watching the 2012 game. His first comment was how nothing has changed from a route perspective. Russ has improved, but the routes are the same. That's okay, and works, with an historic defense. But, now the injuries have piled up, there needs to be a bit more.

One thing that's unfair to Bevell is the rest of the Seahawks staff. On a staff with, IMO, one HOF coach in Carroll, one potentially championship caliber HC in Cable, and two soon to be playoff HC'S in Richard and Quinn, Bevell stands out a bit by comparison.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Seattle has a top ten offense and several clubs are scrambling around to find anyone to run their offense (including San Fran & St. Louis).

Why are people complaining again?

It's not about being beyond criticism. I just don't know what people expect. Seattle has a very good offense. To expect it to be as lights out as the defense is to expect the current incarnation of the Seattle Seahawks to be the greatest football team to ever play the game. That is an unfair expectation IMO.

 

[Mick063]

If the offensive line is at full strength, the only person that contains Wilson is Wilson. If he was passing from the pocket, it is from play design, not from what the Packers "forced" him to do.

If the tackles are not immediate turn styles, Wilson has demonstrated that with a few exceptions, he gets in or out of the pocket at will. Just because he is taking a five stop drop from center and chucking the ball like a prototype quarterback doesn't mean that the Packers forced him to do so.

The only anomaly about the Packer game was the interceptions. They were just bad throws and had nothing to do with Wilson being in or out of the pocket. We have never seen Russell make that many bad throws in a game before but we have certainly seen him hitch up the offense late in the game and will them to victory before.

 

[IndyHawk]

Seattle has a top ten offense and several clubs are scrambling around to find anyone to run their offense (including San Fran & St. Louis).

Why are people complaining again?

It's not about being beyond criticism. I just don't know what people expect. Seattle has a very good offense. To expect it to be as lights out as the defense is to expect the current incarnation of the Seattle Seahawks to be the greatest football team to ever play the game. That is an unfair expectation IMO.

I agree with this and it could very well be the problem ..Great point! :th2thumbs:

 

[captSE]

A fact of football is that you will lose some, if not a lot.
Wilson has conquered every winning quarterback and I'm sure mr Simm's would be a victim as well - oh wait, was he all that?
About mr Bevell. Who gets the praise when the Hawks win? Wilson? Lynch? WR's? PC? The defense? I believe Bevell has a lot to do with it.....
Go Hawks!

 

[pehawk]

Seattle has a top ten offense and several clubs are scrambling around to find anyone to run their offense (including San Fran & St. Louis).

Why are people complaining again?

It's not about being beyond criticism. I just don't know what people expect. Seattle has a very good offense. To expect it to be as lights out as the defense is to expect the current incarnation of the Seattle Seahawks to be the greatest football team to ever play the game. That is an unfair expectation IMO.

They have a great offense, with a dynamic run game, inconsistent playcalling and sophomoric passing game.

No one's complaining.

 

[Zebulon Dak]

We ran 11 RO plays before Russell's keeper for the TD. It was the first one he kept.

Bevell is A GOD.

 

[rideaducati]

Keeping Russell in the pocket worked REALLY well for the Packers, especially at the end of the game. Russell did most of his damage from the pocket against the Packers, so I hope the Patriots DO keep him in the pocket.