So the experts say the Hawks will suck this season?

[chris98251]

I stopped reading after that statement. As if Kiper's draft assessment means diddly squat to 12's for obvious reasons. :34853_doh:

It means something to me!. It means his moronic anti hawk draft evaluation may be due to blow up in his face again and we well may do better than I expected. I consider that great news!! 8)

The guy is a millionaire from doing what he does. I don't think anything is blowing up in his face.

He was the first guy, I remember reading his stuff in High Scholl and he was very young then, he did his homework in those days and didn't just relie on others reports.

Thats why he is on ESPN, not for what he does now but what he DID back then.

 

[seahawkfreak]

We still have talent at all positions with the exceptions of the O-Line. Even with that said we still have two legitimate guys on the O-Line. That might mean something and I think everyone should give, at the very least give the guys playing in the other positions a chance they will get better. Why not? At this point they have to. It is not out of thought that these guys in their 3rd season are not at the very least can play at a C level.

We all could be wrong and we get a pile of crap worse than Cable's cabal. Just really don't see that happening. However, if the same shit happens this year,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,IMHO everything needs to wiped. PC gone. JS gets major control at the GM position and picking players.

We need to do the same shit that is going down with the Boston Celtics. I say this because it reminds me of our previous success but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, we have distanced ourselves from it.

 

[pittpnthrs]

and now he'll have an actual running game with elite potential.

A lot of fans are taking this for granted but nobody really knows if we'll be able to run or not to be honest.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

There are plenty of things that fans don't know, even if they think they do :lol:
Running game can't get any worse :34853_doh:

 

[SeaWolv]

9-7 is most likely, 10-6 if we get lucky if we have bad luck 7-9.

 

[Boycie]

If the Hawks can get back to running the ball, and controlling the clock, then I think we can be a playoff contending team this year. If they cannot establish a run game, then we are in trouble.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Truth, pound that rock and eat up that clock. If they can do that, they have a shot at a good season.

 

[Jimjones0384]

But this is all very interesting... we won 9 games this last season with virtually NO running game, and many injuries on Defense. I know there were games that were lost by a field goal that could/should have been wins, and a couple close wins that could have swung the other way. So we'll call it an authentic 9-win season.

But 9 wins with all those issues? Why should we expect less this year with a potentially better O-line development, fewer distractions, and several new high-motor, sound skill players added to the mix? If our RB stable stays uninjured and the o-line is merely serviceable, our Offense can be significantly better. The Defense has more youth, so there will be some mistakes made, but they also have some new sparks. Our Special Teams should see some real gains all around.

1-5 in the division? No way. We'll stay competitive, and I expect to see the team do better in the division, certainly, and probably 3-3 at minimum.

Unknowns are the reason.

Unknowns all the way across the D-line (other than Clark). Unknowns as to whether Earl can stay healthy and both Maxwell and McDougal can step in and not have a big dropoff from Sherman and Kam.

Unknowns in the run game, unknowns with whether Solari can fix the O-line issues.

Unknowns with the WR and TE corp, no more Richardson and Graham, who's going to pick up that production.

So yeah, it's not a crazy notion for some analysts and us fans here to not know if all this turnover is going to work. You're being optimistic that the young players taking over can produce, but you, we, no one knows that yet until we see it.

I know, it's pff, but.......... Sherman was rated 82.7 by pff last year, Maxwell 84. He played better than Sherman last year. And that was him walking off the street and into a system in which he had not played for years. Sherman off Achilles, or a guy that was rated higher than him in the same system, who now will have a full off season with the team, and costs around 8 million less. I'm pretty sure this team is better off, and I love Sherman.

 

[Hawks46]

There are too many question marks to really call a lot of success. I'm kind of feeling a pre 2012 vibe, but it has to come together.

We have a new OC. Typically teams don't start out on fire (or completely in synch) when they get a new OC. Look at Atlanta; they have much better offensive personnel overall than we do, and when they changed OC's their offense suffered for a quarter of the season or so. We do have the foundation of what can be a pretty good OL, and if Solari can coach up guys better and faster than Cable did, we might be pretty good offensively.

On defense we are going through a lot of changes and a ton of personnel turn over. We have some good young talent but I need to see how hungry they are and if guys like Jarran Reed and Nazair Jones can develop. Clark needs to take the next step as well because we have young guys in the secondary that are going to need some help with pass rush.

I think overall if the team comes out hungry and with a chip on it's shoulder, we do have the young talent to compete. They need to be pissed off at how bad the Rams beat them last year. They need to play a bit angry like the 2012-2015 Hawks teams did. And I honestly can't prognosticate how players' attitudes and motivation will turn out.

I do think they will be an interesting watch, but I think we're at 8-8 team at the moment.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I know, it's pff, but.......... Sherman was rated 82.7 by pff last year, Maxwell 84. He played better than Sherman last year. And that was him walking off the street and into a system in which he had not played for years. Sherman off Achilles, or a guy that was rated higher than him in the same system, who now will have a full off season with the team, and costs around 8 million less. I'm pretty sure this team is better off, and I love Sherman.

There is no universe where a healthy Maxwell is better than a healthy Sherman, and you will see it in full effect come September when teams start throwing at Maxwell early and often.

Maxwell is a placeholder until we can draft or develop another young stud corner to pair with Griffin. Hell, there's good chance Maxwell won't even be the opening day starter if Thorpe, Elliot, Tyson of Flowers can pop in camp.

 

[kf3339]

I know, it's pff, but.......... Sherman was rated 82.7 by pff last year, Maxwell 84. He played better than Sherman last year. And that was him walking off the street and into a system in which he had not played for years. Sherman off Achilles, or a guy that was rated higher than him in the same system, who now will have a full off season with the team, and costs around 8 million less. I'm pretty sure this team is better off, and I love Sherman.

There is no universe where a healthy Maxwell is better than a healthy Sherman, and you will see it in full effect come September when teams start throwing at Maxwell early and often.

Maxwell is a placeholder until we can draft or develop another young stud corner to pair with Griffin. Hell, there's good chance Maxwell won't even be the opening day starter if Thorpe, Elliot, Tyson of Flowers can pop in camp.

You can actually look at this in a different way. What if Griffin becomes the young stud shutdown corner that Sherman held for so many years. After all, he didn't even start his first year in the league and Griffin is well ahead of Sherman at the same point in his career. So we may have that shutdown corner coming real soon in Griffin. So all Maxwell has to do is the same number 2 corner job he held down when Browner left. That is until one of the other younger guys takes that spot.

Besides teams were throwing at Maxwell when Sherman was the guy, so no real difference IMO.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I know, it's pff, but.......... Sherman was rated 82.7 by pff last year, Maxwell 84. He played better than Sherman last year. And that was him walking off the street and into a system in which he had not played for years. Sherman off Achilles, or a guy that was rated higher than him in the same system, who now will have a full off season with the team, and costs around 8 million less. I'm pretty sure this team is better off, and I love Sherman.

There is no universe where a healthy Maxwell is better than a healthy Sherman, and you will see it in full effect come September when teams start throwing at Maxwell early and often.

Maxwell is a placeholder until we can draft or develop another young stud corner to pair with Griffin. Hell, there's good chance Maxwell won't even be the opening day starter if Thorpe, Elliot, Tyson of Flowers can pop in camp.

You can actually look at this in a different way. What if Griffin becomes the young stud shutdown corner that Sherman held for so many years. After all, he didn't even start his first year in the league and Griffin is well ahead of Sherman at the same point in his career. So we may have that shutdown corner coming real soon in Griffin. So all Maxwell has to do is the same number 2 corner job he held down when Browner left. That is until one of the other younger guys takes that spot.

Besides teams were throwing at Maxwell when Sherman was the guy, so no real difference IMO.

There's a big difference. The difference is then Maxwell was 4-5 years younger and he had Kam, Earl and Sherm in their prime to play with.

There's a reason we didn't give Maxwell a new contract, and there's a reason he failed in both Philly and Miami. He's a system CB that can play adequately when surrounded by great players. That's what we know about him.

Is that what he has here right now? I don't see it. Much more will be expected of him if he starts, and IMO that's a tall order.

 

[kf3339]

I know, it's pff, but.......... Sherman was rated 82.7 by pff last year, Maxwell 84. He played better than Sherman last year. And that was him walking off the street and into a system in which he had not played for years. Sherman off Achilles, or a guy that was rated higher than him in the same system, who now will have a full off season with the team, and costs around 8 million less. I'm pretty sure this team is better off, and I love Sherman.

There is no universe where a healthy Maxwell is better than a healthy Sherman, and you will see it in full effect come September when teams start throwing at Maxwell early and often.

Maxwell is a placeholder until we can draft or develop another young stud corner to pair with Griffin. Hell, there's good chance Maxwell won't even be the opening day starter if Thorpe, Elliot, Tyson of Flowers can pop in camp.

You can actually look at this in a different way. What if Griffin becomes the young stud shutdown corner that Sherman held for so many years. After all, he didn't even start his first year in the league and Griffin is well ahead of Sherman at the same point in his career. So we may have that shutdown corner coming real soon in Griffin. So all Maxwell has to do is the same number 2 corner job he held down when Browner left. That is until one of the other younger guys takes that spot.

Besides teams were throwing at Maxwell when Sherman was the guy, so no real difference IMO.

There's a big difference. The difference is then Maxwell was 4-5 years younger and he had Kam, Earl and Sherm in their prime to play with.

There's a reason we didn't give Maxwell a new contract, and there's a reason he failed in both Philly and Miami. He's a system CB that can play adequately when surrounded by great players. That's what we know about him.

Is that what he has here right now? I don't see it. Much more will be expected of him if he starts, and IMO that's a tall order.

The point is he is a system CB.... for OUR system. He didn't fit in Philly or Miami for that exact reason. I'm not saying that he isn't older or that he needs to be a shutdown corner. Just that he can provide the second CB spot for right now and that Griffin could well become our new Sherman. So again don't assume he can't do the job as a number 2 for now, since he did a decent job for us last year.

I also do agree that one of the younger guys will probably supplant him by season's end, or next year. But if PC really felt he had that guy ready now I doubt he would have re-signed Maxwell this off season.

Besides, our defense is in transition this season, so worrying about Maxwell for me is pretty much the least of our issues on that side of the ball. A new D mentality and leadership needs to be established. That is far more important.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

. But if PC really felt he had that guy ready now I doubt he would have re-signed Maxwell this off season. .

He doesn't have a guy ready, that is why Maxwell's here.

Pete and John have done this a lot, bring in a vet to compete with the young guys pushing them to take the spot..........and I'm fine with that, but when someone tells me that Maxwell had better stats and is a better CB that Sherm was last year?

That's laughable. I'm not comfortable with Maxwell being the starter, I think he's lost a step and can't follow receivers out into patterns for longer than five seconds, especially smaller quicker receivers.........and that might be a BIG problem if this young and light D-line can't get pressure on the QB.

So I do hope one of the younger CB's can jump up and take the spot, and we can either cut Maxwell or keep him for depth.

 

[kf3339]

. But if PC really felt he had that guy ready now I doubt he would have re-signed Maxwell this off season. .

He doesn't have a guy ready, that is why Maxwell's here.

Pete and John have done this a lot, bring in a vet to compete with the young guys pushing them to take the spot..........and I'm fine with that, but when someone tells me that Maxwell had better stats and is a better CB that Sherm was last year?

That's laughable. I'm not comfortable with Maxwell being the starter, I think he's lost a step and can't follow receivers out into patterns for longer than five seconds, especially smaller quicker receivers.........and that might be a BIG problem if this young and light D-line can't get pressure on the QB.

So I do hope one of the younger CB's can jump up and take the spot, and we can either cut Maxwell or keep him for depth.

I think we are saying the same thing, but in a different manner. I do understand that you felt the earlier comment about Maxwell being "better" than Sherman was a wrong statement. But I also think that Sherman himself had slipped the past few years. Some because of injury issues, but also he was getting older as well. So who is to say that Maxwell last year wasn't similar in performance to an injured and slower Sherman.

What I really hope is that Griffin becomes "The Man" and we can only worry about who will be the next number 2 CB for this team. The more I read about Flowers I think he can be that guy. We may have found another mid round CB who fits exactly what PC wants for his secondary. It just feels right since he went in the 5th round, just like Sherman.

I am really hopeful that will be the case. In fact, I'm really stoked about all of our new defensive draft picks and several rookie UDFA's for this coming season!

:irishdrinkers:

 

[olyfan63]

Interesting couple of comments about 'Defense didn't drop off much without them".
Did any of these people watch the Rams destroy our team 42-7 at C-Link??
When was the last time something like that happened?
:snack:

As others pointed out, with no KJ and Wagner at 50%, and the Rams knowing how to attack that, they did, and they killed us.
On offense, it was not a surprise for our offense to suck, once more, against the Rams. Honestly, I was just praying for Russell to make it through the game without a season-ending injury, it was that bad. This time, there was no Hawk D to bail out the inept offense. Just a crippled Hawk D.

What's interesting is the Rams went from .500-ish to division champs without wholesale changes. Their QB improved and matured, a few players stepped up, and the coaching got better.

The Seahawks aren't that far away, and with a few improvements, we could easily own the division again. Will it happen in 2018? Depends on guys like Rashad Penny, Will Dissley, and coaching improvements from Schotty and Solari. Our D will be good again. Pete knows how to put together an NFL D.

Somewhere between 9-7 and 11-5. And I think we make the playoffs. If the team is gelling late in the season and Penny is running wild like the Shaun Alexander of 2005, who knows? Maybe deep into the playoffs.

 

[dbsn2420]

Going back to the original premise of the post, the so called "experts" are just best guessing like the rest of us. I personally don't think they have a clue. The unknown factor is how this team gels and puts it together. Pete's system works when the players buy in. I don't think that was the case last year.

Those players are no longer here. For that reason alone, I don't think the losses on the D side will be that significant. This Defense as a whole last year was garbage. From a team perspective they went the whole season without an inkling of a running game. Three losses last year could be placed on the kicker alone and they still hit 9 - 7. There is still too much talent on this team to be average, or 8 - 8.

I think this team will be better than expected because of the heart of these vets along with the fire of the rooks and younger players. They have something to prove after last years gaggle. I think if they can simply run the ball, and play slightly above average D they'll be good for 10, maybe 11 wins.

Then again, this is how I feel every year at this time!

 

[Hockey Guy]

Avril, Kam, Sherman, Richardson and Benett. That's a lot of really good players to lose from a defense.

The first 3 were missing when we destroyed the eventual SB champion Eagles so I have a lot of optimism for the upcoming season. I like all those players but I can see us overcoming these losses with a few shrewd moves.

I also see no way the offence, & especially the OL, isn't improved & more consistent unless Russell gets hurt. We should have been 11-5 last season with a kicker & is my prediction for this year.

 

[TwistedHusky]

The word suck is pretty loaded.

But we will probably not be much better than a .500 team and certainly not much more than a Wild Card team.

The clinging to the "We beat the Eagles!" thing is more evidence that we know this, but are desperately trying to validate some hope that this team is going to be 'great' again.

Better teams lose to worse teams ALL THE TIME. All those times the Rams beat us. Or the Chargers, as an example.

Beating the Eagles does not make us better than the Eagles. The Eagles won the SB. We did not even make the playoffs.

Now, a fragile hope exists that this team can somehow play better by not squandering 3 of the 4 quarters like it did. But, if you want to acknowledge that our offense is bound to be better, you have to concede the defense will be worse.

We won't suck. But we are going to be struggling to be much better than last year.

Remember our guys are going to have to learn to play missing all those pieces in our defense and offense. Learning to play with new coordinators and likely plays. They have to be better (you could not get much worse on offense) but even then - can you expect that to offset all they lost?

 

[adeltaY]

Interesting couple of comments about 'Defense didn't drop off much without them".
Did any of these people watch the Rams destroy our team 42-7 at C-Link??
When was the last time something like that happened?
:snack:

As others pointed out, with no KJ and Wagner at 50%, and the Rams knowing how to attack that, they did, and they killed us.
On offense, it was not a surprise for our offense to suck, once more, against the Rams. Honestly, I was just praying for Russell to make it through the game without a season-ending injury, it was that bad. This time, there was no Hawk D to bail out the inept offense. Just a crippled Hawk D.

What's interesting is the Rams went from .500-ish to division champs without wholesale changes. Their QB improved and matured, a few players stepped up, and the coaching got better.

The Seahawks aren't that far away, and with a few improvements, we could easily own the division again. Will it happen in 2018? Depends on guys like Rashad Penny, Will Dissley, and coaching improvements from Schotty and Solari. Our D will be good again. Pete knows how to put together an NFL D.

Somewhere between 9-7 and 11-5. And I think we make the playoffs. If the team is gelling late in the season and Penny is running wild like the Shaun Alexander of 2005, who knows? Maybe deep into the playoffs.

I really don't think that's true. They brought in Whitworth and Sullivan for the OL, which improved greatly, stayed healthy, and was a top-tier unit in 2017. They also brought in Robert Woods and Sammy Watkins and drafted Cooper Kupp and Gerald Everett (don't think he did much though). They signed Kayvon Webster and Robey-Coleman to play CB and drafted John Johnson to play safety. Those are huge roster changes that combined with the improved coaching of McVay to catapult the Rams to division champs.