Sweezy's decline

[hawkfan68]

I believe Sweezy has reached his peak. He looks better than he is because the Seahawk OL as a whole is poor. Hell Okung makes stupid mistakes and he's the top lineman for Seahawks. Britt and Sweezy wouldn't be starters on most teams. The problem with Sweezy is that he continues to make the same mistakes. It's like he's not even learning to correct them. Cable is overrated too. His lack of finding real talent on the OL is hurting the team. His highest OL pick in the 2015 NFL draft is a PS player.

Okung is a better LT than many other teams have. He's no Joe Thomas, but he's above average. The problem is his injury history and his ability to get stupid penalties at seemingly the worst times.

Oops, my bad. I meant Britt and Sweezy wouldn't be starters on most teams. I changed it on my original post. Thanks for catching that.

 

[Tical21]

I've never really understood the Sweezy infatuation. He flat out blows his assignment way too often, both in the run and passing game. For an offensive lineman, we notice JR Sweezy far too often.

 

[CalboHawk]

It is amazing how often Nowack, Sweezy and Britt are diving to make a block and end-up on the ground. Is this the technique that Cable is teaching them?

 

[hawknation2015]

It is amazing how often Nowack, Sweezy and Britt are diving to make a block and end-up on the ground. Is this the technique that Cable is teaching them?

You mean like a cut block? If so, yes.

 

[Hawks46]

Sweezy hasn't declined, he's hit his ceiling. This is what we're going to get. I questioned whether he had hit his ceiling last year and a few people questioned that comment, saying he'd only been an OLman for 3 years and could get better. Which is theoretically correct (either statement was bound to be proven wrong this year).

Sweezy was never the most stout at the point of attack. He tends to get his pad level too high when he was newer, and just doesn't have the technique to hold up against elite DT's (to be fair, elite DT's make most OG's look bad, but Sweezy looks comically bad against them). He's also always been patently terrible in pass protection. I don't think that's ever going to change unless we bring in an assistant OL coach that only teaches good pass protection. Cable either doesn't care about it, or it's just not in his arsenal.

What Sweezy is really good at is getting the combo block and peeling off to get to the 2nd level. It's why the bigger runs usually come over the right side, because there's a hole there and the LBer responsible for it is usually taken out by Sweezy.

I've watched some tape of Glowinski, and he's good at this as well. His problem is that he's not as athletic as Sweezy, so when he peels off, he's had problems getting to the LBer in space.

 

[Largent80]

I'm calling bullshit on linemen either being able to run or pass block only. I've watched the NFL for 55 years and I've witnessed thousands of linemen do both.

It's an excuse to say Sweezy can't pass block because he is a good run blocker. If he can't pass block then he is just a mediocre guard in this league and he's looked the same from day one.

 

[DavidSeven]

Seems like we scout our o-linemen on their ability to do only one thing: chip d-linemen on a combo block and tackle skinnier linebackers at the second level. The liabilities they create in almost every other area seem like afterthoughts as long as they're svelte enough to move a little bit. Maybe one day we'll just have five tight ends on our line.

Granted, this has worked out okay when we surrounded our single project with vets who were multi-dimensional. But if you got 3-4 guys on your line who are constantly giving up push because they aren't really built for the trenches, then you really start to notice the limitations of this approach.

 

[hawknation2015]

I've never really understood the Sweezy infatuation. He flat out blows his assignment way too often, both in the run and passing game. For an offensive lineman, we notice JR Sweezy far too often.

Yeah, the thing that has been the most disappointing to me has been his run blocking in several of these games. From what I have seen of Glowinski, he will grow into a more consistent run blocker than Sweezy due to his superior technique. His pass blocking is what is holding Glowinski back right now. Sweezy had a really solid year as a pass blocker in 2013, allowing only one sack on 900 pass blocking snaps. He has regressed every year since then. As pass blockers, the difference between Glowinski and Sweezy will be a wash.

Nowak has shown that being a former defensive lineman does not necessary mean you will be bad in pass pro. He has yet to allow a sack or a QB hit and has fewer pressures allowed than anyone. I think that has something to do with his excellent lateral agility; tied with Sokoli for the best 3-cone time on the team (7.25). Nowak has also shown a hard punch and good awareness, which are important traits in pass pro.

 

[Largent80]

Exactly David. These linemen are all too tall and lack the needed girth to hold their ground.

 

[hawknation2015]

It's easy to understand why Britt has had his struggles in the first half of the season, given that he was a late move to left guard. Fortunately, Britt is coming off his best game as a guard. He did some excellent work in the running game, his best of the season at least, and only made a couple mistakes in pass pro. It looked to me like he is starting to "get it."

If Sweezy returns to form, this line has a chance to return to being about average in pass pro. Okung has done his thing, Nowak has done his thing, and Gilliam has done his thing for the most part. We need the veteran Sweezy to step up, stay focused and locked in to his technique. It hasn't all been bad for Sweezy, but we expected so much more from him going into his contract year.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

My guess is that Glowinski, whilst probably better in pass pro, isn't as good in the run game and doesn't really justify starting over Sweezy. I think that rolling with Sweezy while we go back to the run game is not only sensible, but could see us net a decent comp pick in 2017.

Now if this was a matter of Glowinski replacing Britt...

I'm not sure why, but Cable's scheme has had the stronger, big guys play LG (Bailey and Carpernet both 325+ lbs). At 305 pounds I would think that Glowinski projects more as a backup plan to Sweezy at RG for now.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Well Sweezy isn't getting much help.

It isn't like Sweezy was a completely developed OL, he was still rough in a lot of areas.

He was surrounded by experienced OL that he look to for assistance and to ask questions of. Now we put a bunch of raw guys off the street around him that are instead having to ask him for assistance and coming to him with questions.

Pretty reasonable to see how you can develop bad habits when you lose the people that might be helping you omit mistakes and do better in the first place.

I also fundamentally disagree that if you can run block you can pass block and vice versa. First, pass blocking is a skill and so is run blocking. There is no reason that being good at one should mean you are good at the other, even when some of the base skills are related. It should also be clear that pass blocking is a coveted skill in the NFL, so we have been instead picking up guys that haven't shown that skill but have physical traits/abilities that we feel can be effective in our system.

That means we get guys that are overlooked because they have not or cannot pass block but we think we can get them to run block and at least be serviceable as pass blockers.

Finally, never played OL but years ago one of my old roommates was an ex-OL from Alabama. He would point out that as a run blocker you know where the play is going and you can be aggressive, where as a pass blocker you have to react more and be more aware of your teammates that you might need to help. He would also point out that run blocking is nowhere near as exhausting as pass blocking.

So it makes sense that pushing our guys into pass blocking when they are not built for it, screwed us. Hopefully Lynch returning means our offense can return too. And that might mean Sweezy, even with the mistakes, at least might look a lot better than he has.

 

[DavidSeven]

My guess is that Glowinski, whilst probably better in pass pro, isn't as good in the run game and doesn't really justify starting over Sweezy. I think that rolling with Sweezy while we go back to the run game is not only sensible, but could see us net a decent comp pick in 2017.

Now if this was a matter of Glowinski replacing Britt...

I'm not sure why, but Cable's scheme has had the stronger, big guys play LG (Bailey and Carpernet both 325+ lbs). At 305 pounds I would think that Glowinski projects more as a backup plan to Sweezy at RG for now.

Extending on this point, I'd bet money that they never intended for Britt to play on the left side nor for Gilliam to play on the right. In an ideal world, Britt is a competent RT and Gilliam is your backup LT. I think the current composition is all last resorts based on their lack of confidence in Britt as a tackle and in Bailey as a starter.

 

[brimsalabim]

I think Tom Cable's blocking scheme is needlessly complicated.

Which is odd, because Carroll kind of stresses simplicity in every other area of the team.

After the Greenbay game one of the nfl network guys pointed out that the cheesers had schemed for our run game by delay stunting the DE's through the hole vacated by our guards when they pulled or went to the second level to block the line backers.

When this occurs it looks like the guard blew his assignment when actually they didn't. A lot of times it's on the center. I didn't look for this last week to see if the issue was fixed with a more experienced center.

 

[hawknation2015]

My guess is that Glowinski, whilst probably better in pass pro, isn't as good in the run game and doesn't really justify starting over Sweezy. I think that rolling with Sweezy while we go back to the run game is not only sensible, but could see us net a decent comp pick in 2017.

Now if this was a matter of Glowinski replacing Britt...

I'm not sure why, but Cable's scheme has had the stronger, big guys play LG (Bailey and Carpernet both 325+ lbs). At 305 pounds I would think that Glowinski projects more as a backup plan to Sweezy at RG for now.

Extending on this point, I'd bet money that they never intended for Britt to play on the left side nor for Gilliam to play on the right. In an ideal world, Britt is a competent RT and Gilliam is your backup LT. I think the current composition is all last resorts based on their lack of confidence in Britt as a tackle and in Bailey as a starter.

People have tried to frame it in that way, but it's really not a matter of weight. Obviously, we want a good run blocker at left guard to pair with Russell Okung, and that left B gap is where we want to run the ball the most. Britt is a very strong run blocker. He showed that against the 49ers last week. Britt is only going to get better at that spot.

The narrative also doesn't add up when you consider that Paul McQuistan, who has a similar body type to Britt's, was starting at left guard for most of 2012. And before that, Cable had Robert Gallery starting at left guard in 2011 . . . another player with a similar body type to Britt's. And thus far Cable has preferred Britt at left guard, despite his growing pains, to a wider body type like Bailey's.

 

[justafan]

Well Sweezy isn't getting much help.

It isn't like Sweezy was a completely developed OL, he was still rough in a lot of areas.

He was surrounded by experienced OL that he look to for assistance and to ask questions of. Now we put a bunch of raw guys off the street around him that are instead having to ask him for assistance and coming to him with questions.

Pretty reasonable to see how you can develop bad habits when you lose the people that might be helping you omit mistakes and do better in the first place.

I also fundamentally disagree that if you can run block you can pass block and vice versa. First, pass blocking is a skill and so is run blocking. There is no reason that being good at one should mean you are good at the other, even when some of the base skills are related. It should also be clear that pass blocking is a coveted skill in the NFL, so we have been instead picking up guys that haven't shown that skill but have physical traits/abilities that we feel can be effective in our system.

That means we get guys that are overlooked because they have not or cannot pass block but we think we can get them to run block and at least be serviceable as pass blockers.

Finally, never played OL but years ago one of my old roommates was an ex-OL from Alabama. He would point out that as a run blocker you know where the play is going and you can be aggressive, where as a pass blocker you have to react more and be more aware of your teammates that you might need to help. He would also point out that run blocking is nowhere near as exhausting as pass blocking.

So it makes sense that pushing our guys into pass blocking when they are not built for it, screwed us. Hopefully Lynch returning means our offense can return too. And that might mean Sweezy, even with the mistakes, at least might look a lot better than he has.

I dont think they were saying if they could run block means they can pass block.I think what they are saying is if you are building a pro line they should be able to pass block.Its a requirement to having a pro offense that is adequate.

People seem to give Cable and the Oline a pass by saying they weren't built to be a pass blocking Oline.I just think its a poor excuse.I dont buy the excuse that its better to use undrafted DL because they have less bad habits.I think I would hire a different coach if he cant teach a college Olineman the needed skills.

I think they will get better in fact they have already but why gamble a shot at the SB or playoffs on college DL or TEs that dont have the experience.

I have always thought Sweezy was overated.He is great if you judge him as a Dlineman playing Olineman but if you judge him as you would any Olineman he isnt all that good.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

My guess is that Glowinski, whilst probably better in pass pro, isn't as good in the run game and doesn't really justify starting over Sweezy. I think that rolling with Sweezy while we go back to the run game is not only sensible, but could see us net a decent comp pick in 2017.

Now if this was a matter of Glowinski replacing Britt...

I'm not sure why, but Cable's scheme has had the stronger, big guys play LG (Bailey and Carpernet both 325+ lbs). At 305 pounds I would think that Glowinski projects more as a backup plan to Sweezy at RG for now.

Extending on this point, I'd bet money that they never intended for Britt to play on the left side nor for Gilliam to play on the right. In an ideal world, Britt is a competent RT and Gilliam is your backup LT. I think the current composition is all last resorts based on their lack of confidence in Britt as a tackle and in Bailey as a starter.

I'm excited about this offensive line, strangely enough. Things haven't gone ideally, but if Gilliam is an upgrade over Britt from last year and Britt is playing about as well as Carpenter, I see it as a positive.

 

[Basis4day]

Well Sweezy isn't getting much help.

It isn't like Sweezy was a completely developed OL, he was still rough in a lot of areas.

He was surrounded by experienced OL that he look to for assistance and to ask questions of. Now we put a bunch of raw guys off the street around him that are instead having to ask him for assistance and coming to him with questions.

Pretty reasonable to see how you can develop bad habits when you lose the people that might be helping you omit mistakes and do better in the first place.

I also fundamentally disagree that if you can run block you can pass block and vice versa. First, pass blocking is a skill and so is run blocking. There is no reason that being good at one should mean you are good at the other, even when some of the base skills are related. It should also be clear that pass blocking is a coveted skill in the NFL, so we have been instead picking up guys that haven't shown that skill but have physical traits/abilities that we feel can be effective in our system.

That means we get guys that are overlooked because they have not or cannot pass block but we think we can get them to run block and at least be serviceable as pass blockers.

Finally, never played OL but years ago one of my old roommates was an ex-OL from Alabama. He would point out that as a run blocker you know where the play is going and you can be aggressive, where as a pass blocker you have to react more and be more aware of your teammates that you might need to help. He would also point out that run blocking is nowhere near as exhausting as pass blocking.

So it makes sense that pushing our guys into pass blocking when they are not built for it, screwed us. Hopefully Lynch returning means our offense can return too. And that might mean Sweezy, even with the mistakes, at least might look a lot better than he has.

I dont think they were saying if they could run block means they can pass block.I think what they are saying is if you are building a pro line they should be able to pass block.Its a requirement to having a pro offense that is adequate.

People seem to give Cable and the Oline a pass by saying they weren't built to be a pass blocking Oline.I just think its a poor excuse.I dont buy the excuse that its better to use undrafted DL because they have less bad habits.I think I would hire a different coach if he cant teach a college Olineman the needed skills.

I think they will get better in fact they have already but why gamble a shot at the SB or playoffs on college DL or TEs that dont have the experience.

I have always thought Sweezy was overated.He is great if you judge him as a Dlineman playing Olineman but if you judge him as you would any Olineman he isnt all that good.

Cable has elaborated on why he prefers the D-Lineman from college. They are the athletes that he needs. In college those players no longer play o-line. It isn't simply a matter of molding clay, but having the right type of clay. The overall lack of quality o-line play league wide reflects this.

As far as Sweezy goes i judge him as a starting OG on a run heavy team that has made the past two super bowls.

 

[hawknation2015]

People seem to give Cable and the Oline a pass by saying they weren't built to be a pass blocking Oline.

I think people have to be realistic about the resources we have devoted to this position group in favor of having the league's most dominant defense, extending Russell Wilson and Marshawn Lynch, and trading for another dominant play maker in Jimmy Graham. We are 28th in the league in total offensive line spending and 31st in the league in cap spending per lineman. Until this year, we were not drafting much at the position group outside of the 7th Round. It has a strategy that has given us the league's best defense and rushing attack, while leading us to back to back Super Bowls.

Cable would love to have the three First Round draft choices and high priced free agents that Dallas has accumulated over the last four years. But that would mean sacrificing some of our elite defensive players.

Have patience . . . the line is coming off its best and most physical performance of the first half of the season. The growing pains were to be expected given their inexperience and the challenging early-season schedule. I also think it is wrong to say that pass blocking has not been a consideration, when Nowak has shown to be very good in pass pro and Gilliam was moved to RT in part to upgrade the pass blocking at that position. Also, with the draft resources we put into the line this year, we should start to see improvement in the line as draftees like Glowinski and Sokoli gain playing time next season.

 

[justafan]

People seem to give Cable and the Oline a pass by saying they weren't built to be a pass blocking Oline.

I think people have to be realistic about the resources we have devoted to this position group in favor of having the league's most dominant defense, extending Russell Wilson and Marshawn Lynch, and trading for another dominant play maker in Jimmy Graham. We are 28th in the league in total offensive line spending and 31st in the league in cap spending per lineman. Until this year, we were not drafting much at the position group outside of the 7th Round. It has a strategy that has given us the league's best defense and rushing attack, while leading us to back to back Super Bowls.

Cable would love to have the three First Round draft choices and high priced free agents that Dallas has accumulated over the last four years. But that would mean sacrificing some of our elite defensive players.

Have patience . . . the line is coming off its best and most physical performance of the first half of the season. The growing pains were to be expected given their inexperience and the challenging early-season schedule. I also think it is wrong to say that pass blocking has not been a consideration, when Nowak has shown to be very good in pass pro and Gilliam was moved to RT in part to upgrade the pass blocking at that position. Also, with the draft resources we put into the line this year, we should start to see improvement in the line as draftees like Glowinski and Sokoli gain playing time next season.

I understand this year we didnt spend anything on the Oline but prior to this year the FO made the Oline a high priority.They spent several high draft picks and money to build a line that was better than most.
the problem was they didnt draft anyone they thought was worth keeping.

We had an Oline built with 2 1st, 2 2nds and Breno was a 5th(not by the hawks).Even Gallery was a high 1st
This is really the 1st year Cable was working with this little talent.I think Cable himself proved that good college Olineman with talent is the way to succeed in the NFL.

I dont know, I just see other teams with much better lines who were able to coach OLineman into competent players quicker than starting with DL.I think it will always be that way.
Oline is never the place to scrimp.