The Circle of NO responsibility

[kf3339]

Seems a lot of people here think the concept of SHARED responsibility is equivalent to NO responsibility.

There isn't a single scapegoat here. Pete didn't call a great game, Schottenheimer couldn't adjust the playcalling to mitigate execution issues in all facets of the offense, the defense couldn't hold on long enough when the offense kept giving LA the ball back, Russ had a terrible game, and DJ Reed can't hold onto the ball.

Plenty of blame to go around, which upsets people who can't approach football with a nuanced point of view and need a singular scapegoat to kick into the pit of misery.

Also, the Chargers were dumb to fire Marty Schottenheimer. Let's not gloss over that. They immediately got worse after doing so and had no additional postseason success.

You're talking about the game, we're talking about the future and organization as a whole and what that looks like.

What it looks like is what it's looked like for the past 4-5 years. That should be a sobering thing for everyone.....this is the pinnacle of the rest of Pete and Russell's tenure, good but never again great.

Nuance and scapegoating has nothing to do with it. This is it, enjoy being above average and don't have expectations beyond this.

The entire first half of the OP was most referencing the game, though. I suppose I should have quoted it to make it more clear I was responding specifically to that.

I think its far more likely that Pete and Co. recapture some of the early-2020 magic, sustain it, and win another championship. The alternative blow-it-up method is far more likely to result in worse results than it is better results.

That's beside the point, though. As far as responsibility for the wall they hit in the playoffs year after year, I think there's plenty to go around.

I certainly am not in the blow it up camp.

I am in the Pete needs to give up control of the offense in order to attract the type of young dynamic coordinator that could maximize the potential of the roster talent and Russell.

But this is a non starter dead horse conversation, we all know Pete would never do that.

Well, he didn't when he had Norm Chow as his OC and they won two National Championships. I remember it very well as I lived in LA those years and knew several LA times staff reporters. The word was that Norm was getting a massive amount of adulation and attention for his offensive success and creative play calling. But good ole PC couldn't stand another coach taking attention from himself, so they arranged for Chow to be the OC for Fisher with the Titans and PC went with inexperienced OC's he could control. He never really sniffed another championship after that move.

Sound familiar?

 

[keasley45]

Is that the same norm chow the titans fired after 3 meh seasons?

 

[kf3339]

Is that the same norm chow the titans fired after 3 meh seasons?

Yes, the same college OC who brought SC two national championships in a row. My comment wasn't about his time with the Titans, but with SC when his offenses couldn't be stopped by "ANY" college team. He may not have been a quality OC in the NFL, but he sure was with those SC teams. No one can dispute that, which was my point.

 

[HawkinNY]

And I absolutely want Russ as our Qb. Want PC as our coach and haven't seen evidence of massive ineptitude this year to warrant all the calls for Schotty's head.

The team and those responsible for the offense need to be honest with themselves and assign responsibility for what's going on.

Thing is Pete and Co will never call out Russ for his bad play no matter what. Ex teammates have complained in the past about this. I hope we draft a QB and start looking for a replacement. Russ is done. He will keep getting worse and people will blame everyone but him. I would rather have a rookie QB every year instead of Russ. He is going to break the bank with his next contract which will decimate this team.


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[hinton]

Remember all that post-season success the Chargers had once they fired Marty Schottenheimer? I think They lost 1 AFC title game and they've been irrelevant ever since.

I get the frustration, but don't get tired of winning. Continually getting in the playoffs is an achievement, especially in a touch division.

That said. Pete needs to improve this philosophy. If he could find a middle-ground between the first half of the season and the last half of the season we'd have been legit SB contenders.

 

[ludakrishna]

Remember all that post-season success the Chargers had once they fired Marty Schottenheimer? I think They lost 1 AFC title game and they've been irrelevant ever since.

I get the frustration, but don't get tired of winning. Continually getting in the playoffs is an achievement, especially in a touch division.

That said. Pete needs to improve this philosophy. If he could find a middle-ground between the first half of the season and the last half of the season we'd have been legit SB contenders.

Eagles fired Andy Reid because that relationship had plateaud and ended up winning a SB.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Round and round we go.

Russell Wilson has a bad, bad game yesterday. Everyone but john63 can see that. Horrible QBR. Missed chances. Etc etc. the loss is his fault. BUT WAIT

Russell Wilson ONLY played like crap because he didn’t have time to throw because of an O line that has been ignored for years so the loss is on the O Line BUT WAIT

The o line was drafted or assembled by Schneider and PC who have traditionally ignored those needs and/or completely misspent all sorts of cap space last summer so the loss is on them BUT WAIT

A bad o line can be game planned for by Schotty with a different set of plays which he completely failed to do so the loss is on him BUT WAIT

Schotty doesn’t get to call the plays he wants because PC has forced him into calling plays that worked 8 years ago with different personnel and a different league so the loss is on PC. BUT WAIT

The coaches aren’t on the field so it is on the players to execute the plays and not the coaches so the loss is on them BUT WAIT

The GM and Coach are the ones that picked the players that played yesterday and they picked poorly so the loss is on them BUT WAIT

The ownership is okay with postseason mediocrity because they sit by and watch PC and JS fail and should know the only way they are getting back to the Super Bowl is by buying a ticket. BUT WAIT

There is a team on the other side of the ball who wanted it more and had better players apparently even at QB so the loss on on them.

So, No one is responsible. No changes will be made. Only this time I think we will avoid Groundhogs day 2022 by not making the playoffs. Sad.

Hey you guys remember Marty Schottenheimr being fired by the Chargers after going 14-2? Publicly it was for a spat with the GM but the fans all thought it was because Schotty had a loooong history of sucking in the playoffs. Hmmm.

The narrative about the line being so abysmal is tired. They finished the season 14th, better than middle of the pack in pass pro. You know who was worse? The steelers.

Yet the steelers gave up 14 sacks all year. 14.
Seattle? We gave up 48. Solid talent up front and we gave up 48 sacks.

Why? Because Ben Roethlisberger gets the ball out when it's supposed to come out.

Yet the Russ apologists will swing between the fault lying with PC and his mandates. Then the o-line because they actually do look bad for all the sacks - but they cant make Russ throw the ball.. And if not the o-line, then Schotty. But never ever the guy with with a RB brhind him who yesterday averaged almost 5.0 YPC, who has had wr's running free but chooses not to hit them, and has better blocking than half the league... no. That guy... it has nothing to do with him.

And the. There's u who wants to blame him for the rain. As I have said he played bad. The difference is we understand it was not just him and FYI. Since you said the were 15th care to post the link? Cause till then u made it up.

Made it up? I'm not the one jumping to conspiracy theories about why the offense is horrid. I watch the tape. But here's your link.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020 ... e-rankings

It's unbelievable how people woukd rather concoct some theory that PC would rather see this team fail than let the O do what it effectively CAN do, or that Schotty is just inept, than look at the plays on the field and literary watch what's causing the failures. I feel like in this covid world, we sboukd organize a .NET film watching session so everyone can see exactly what's going on with the offense.

I dont blame Russ for everything, I just refuse to lay blame for game in and game out failures at others feet when the plays that are called should work better than they do. You might not want to hear it but that's fact. Muktiple times yesterday and throughout the season, the QB held the ball and took sacks because he wanted to go deep. He held the ball when underneath wr's were there, literally standing in his face.

My personally opinion? This year, Russ refused to settle for 14 for 23, 199 yards and a td because he got drunk off of hearing about his TD record chase, the MVP chase, and rather than settling for plays that by design were meant to pickup 7 or 10 yards a pop, held the ball to get the glamour shot. The rainbow shot. It happened game in and game out and again, all you have to do is watch the tape and you can see it for yourself.

I swear. A .net all22 zoom party would do a lot to set these crazy debates to rest.

What was the reason for the past 5 years of playoff football failure? It goes further than Russ holding onto the ball to long.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I think its far more likely that Pete and Co. recapture some of the early-2020 magic, sustain it, and win another championship.

And this is where you lost me. Question - what have you seen in the past 6 years that causes you to think that way?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

There is a pile of things about this team that are flat out unacceptable.
3 playoff wins in 6 years
Pete's blatant refusal to make adjustments and/or play to the strengths of his team or QB.
His time management, over and over again. And then coming out and saying he was ok punting, down 10. Ridiculous
Most of the stuff I fought so hard to deny came true. The team got flat out dominated on both sides of the lines.
The play calling was pathetic. Russ had little to no chance behind that o line and play calling. And, he didn't play near what he is capable of.

I'm sure eventually I will get back to being overly confident, but right now, I see a team that has ZERO excuse for winning 3 playoff games in 6 seasons. And as long as Pete is here, I doubt it changes. And it truly does feel like he is wasting Russ' talent. I love the 12-4 record, and the NFC West title. But if you can't get even past the 1st round? It doesn't feel like much to be excited about. I know what team IS capable of, that's why this is so frustrating. So I do NOT buy in to the whole they suck thing that many do. They just beat the Rams 2 games prior. They just flat out sucked on Sunday. It's not always about who better overall team is, it's about who was better THAT DAY. And the Rams and McVay outplayed and outcoached the Hawks, all....day....long.
I didn't want to accept it, but it's reality. The doom and gloomers are right about a lot of the stuff they were saying. Congrats. It sucks, but much of what I heard came true. I will never go full doom and gloom, but I also am not going to sugar coat something that is right in front of us. A team that has underperformed in the playoffs since 49, period.
Go Hawks 24/7 365
Have a great week :irishdrinkers:

 

[hinton]

Remember all that post-season success the Chargers had once they fired Marty Schottenheimer? I think They lost 1 AFC title game and they've been irrelevant ever since.

I get the frustration, but don't get tired of winning. Continually getting in the playoffs is an achievement, especially in a touch division.

That said. Pete needs to improve this philosophy. If he could find a middle-ground between the first half of the season and the last half of the season we'd have been legit SB contenders.

Eagles fired Andy Reid because that relationship had plateaud and ended up winning a SB.

True, but...

1. This is 1 of only 2 examples in the history of the NFL (to my knowledge) where firing a successful HC resulted in a SB win (Dungy/Buccs and Eagles/Reid)

2. A strong argument could be made that both those teams would have won the SB without the change

3. Both teams fell off a cliff after their SB.

Personally I don't like the odds of firing Carroll. Maybe it will work, but history has proved that it's far more likely that it won't.

I think a stronger argument could be changing the QB, there are more examples of that being successful. Worst-case it could light a fire under Russ (like Rodgers in GB this year).

People are too quick to forget how overlooked this franchise was before PS/JS came. It won't take long after a bad hire to revert to that.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Holy crap.

When Soulfish thinks we have a problem, we have a problem.

Usually, I rely on him to talk me off the ledge when I get too pessimistic on the situation.

But if he agrees things are bad, then things are bad.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I hate feeling this way, but I'm just done acting like everything is golden. It's not.
Very successful team who is underperforming in the playoffs. I just don't think it's acceptable at all. And it's flat out NOT good enough. And the team needs to make some changes.
Doesn't change how I feel about the team, or my confidence in what they can do. I know what they are capable of. We have all seen how they look when they are rolling. That's why Saturday felt like a kick in the gut. A waste of a damn good regular season.
Can't just bury my head in the sand and act like it's all good. It isn't. It CAN be, but right now on overreaction Monday? Doesn't feel good at all.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I think its far more likely that Pete and Co. recapture some of the early-2020 magic, sustain it, and win another championship.

And this is where you lost me. Question - what have you seen in the past 6 years that causes you to think that way?

What have you seen historically that makes you think firing the coach of a perennial 10+ win team is a sound move in almost any situation?

That's my answer. I'm not saying it's sure to happen, I'm saying it's likelier than getting over the hump by firing one of the most consistently successful coaches in the league.

There have been signs of life. The team was blowing the doors off of opponents on offense to begin the season, even with the defense lagging behind. Yes, there has been a disappointing drought of playoff success for the past 5 years. But I think it's very reasonable to say that I would rather take my chances on getting hot at the right time with a team that makes the playoffs almost every single year than I would blowing it up and praying it doesn't all come crashing back down to mediocrity.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Remember all that post-season success the Chargers had once they fired Marty Schottenheimer? I think They lost 1 AFC title game and they've been irrelevant ever since.

I get the frustration, but don't get tired of winning. Continually getting in the playoffs is an achievement, especially in a touch division.

That said. Pete needs to improve this philosophy. If he could find a middle-ground between the first half of the season and the last half of the season we'd have been legit SB contenders.

Eagles fired Andy Reid because that relationship had plateaud and ended up winning a SB.

Plateaued? No, the wheels fell off. He went 8-8 and then 4-12. Not a comparable situation.

 

[OrangeGravy]

I hate feeling this way, but I'm just done acting like everything is golden. It's not.
Very successful team who is underperforming in the playoffs. I just don't think it's acceptable at all. And it's flat out NOT good enough. And the team needs to make some changes.
Doesn't change how I feel about the team, or my confidence in what they can do. I know what they are capable of. We have all seen how they look when they are rolling. That's why Saturday felt like a kick in the gut. A waste of a damn good regular season.
Can't just bury my head in the sand and act like it's all good. It isn't. It CAN be, but right now on overreaction Monday? Doesn't feel good at all.

I think a lot of people are at the same place. For me, I've reached a critical mass with Russell. I don't care about any of the off the field stuff, but I firmly believe that the LRC stuff in the offseason combined with the hot start and all the media talk surrounding it went straight to his dome. You can hear little tells with the things he says and subtle changes in the way he's carrying himself vs. his early years. Now he's earned some of that, but I don't think he's earned enough yet to get away with it in the eyes of some teammates. Whether all of the off field stuff is actually a distraction or not, if you put tape out like the last 8 games of this season, teammates are gonna make that connection. I think he's on a bit of a slippery slope with all of it.

We can argue all day long about who's at fault for the offensive issues that have been around since 2016, but the only people that know are the players. They know how often it's Russ not executing vs the play call(s) being the issue. They know if the plan is consistently lacking or if the plan is solid and it's not being run properly. If you ask Angry Doug what the problem is, what would he say?

I'll add that if Pete/Schotty truly are the main problem with the offense and Russell wants to be the best ever to do it, why doesn't he just run what he thinks is best coaches be damned? If that really is the problem, the other players on offense would go along with it wouldn't they? What's to stop him from doing that? Would the D players object? Who other than the coaches would object to it and what could they do about it, cut him? Sit him?