The latest on Jadeveon Clowney and trade partners.

[SoulfishHawk]

So lame that they waited so long to let him play DE.

 

[Popeyejones]

If you believe that to be true, Jadeveon Clowney is more Andrew Luck than even Andrew Luck was.

Is this sort of unrealistic expectation on the player, or on the fans and media?

You get picked #1 overall, you better have a Hall of Fame career, or everyone's pissed at you and people say you're a bust and constantly underachieving.

Fact: When both Luck and Clowney have/had been healthy, they're a top 10 player at their position. Clowney's one of the most disruptive complete DE's in the league, I'd love to have him. It's the cost that I'm hesitant, obviously Houston wants the moon for him, or else he would have been traded by now.

I think we agree, at least in that I don't think Clowney is a bust or an underachiever, but rather, he just hasn't met what were unrealistic expectations.

I think we also agree in that I'd want Clowney too, but also balk at the cost, both in terms of trade and salary.

Where we differ is that I think Clowney's good, but don't think he's a top 10 player at his position. His injuries also degrade him for me in a way they didn't for Luck, just because a lot of Clowney's draft hype was because he was a physical freak and a whole bunch of leg and back injuries sap what made him so special, unlike Luck, for whom being big and fast was only a small part of what had everyone so overhyped about him.

For me, if we take character concerns out of the picture (not everyone cares, but for me it's worth saying), if was going to spend 21 APY and a 1st and 2nd round pick in trade on an edge, I'd do that for Clark (better pass rusher, and no major injury concerns) before I did that for Clowney (better run defender, and major injury concerns).

Given that Clowney will likely cost more than Clark in both APY and trade assets, that's why I'd hope my team passed on Clowney if I was a Hawks fan. :irishdrinkers:

 

[Sgt. Largent]

If you believe that to be true, Jadeveon Clowney is more Andrew Luck than even Andrew Luck was.

Is this sort of unrealistic expectation on the player, or on the fans and media?

You get picked #1 overall, you better have a Hall of Fame career, or everyone's pissed at you and people say you're a bust and constantly underachieving.

Fact: When both Luck and Clowney have/had been healthy, they're a top 10 player at their position. Clowney's one of the most disruptive complete DE's in the league, I'd love to have him. It's the cost that I'm hesitant, obviously Houston wants the moon for him, or else he would have been traded by now.

I think we agree, at least in that I don't think Clowney is a bust or an underachiever, but rather, he just hasn't met what were unrealistic expectations.

I think we also agree in that I'd want Clowney too, but also balk at the cost, both in terms of trade and salary.

Where we differ is that I think Clowney's good, but don't think he's a top 10 player at his position. His injuries also degrade him for me in a way they didn't for Luck, just because a lot of Clowney's draft hype was because he was a physical freak and a whole bunch of leg and back injuries sap what made him so special, unlike Luck, for whom being big and fast was only a small part of what had everyone so overhyped about him.

For me, if we take character concerns out of the picture (not everyone cares, but for me it's worth saying), if was going to spend 21 APY and a 1st and 2nd round pick in trade on an edge, I'd do that for Clark (better pass rusher, and no major injury concerns) before I did that for Clowney (better run defender, and major injury concerns).

Given that Clowney will likely cost more than Clark in both APY and trade assets, that's why I'd hope my team passed on Clowney if I was a Hawks fan. :irishdrinkers:

Right, if it didn't make sense for Clark, why would it all of a sudden make sense for what most people perceive as a lesser player.......although IMO Clowney is a more well rounded DE that is better at stopping the run than Clark, he's just not as explosive/quick as Clark.

But he'd fit in great here on the end, just not for a starting player AND top draft pick.....and certainly not for 20M+ that he's asking for once he hits UFA.

 

[Fade]

Not yet.

The Seahawks need to see where they stand as a team first, and play 4-6 games at least.


Then if they feel they are ahead of schedule on their championship rebuild, they can then go ahead and acquire an additional pass rusher for their expected deep playoff run.

Clowney maybe off the market by then, but there will be other pass rushers available, for a lower price that could still help.

Seattle needs to slow play this, there is no need to be hhasty, patience.

 

[DomeHawk]

Not gonna happen.

 

[massari]

Here's what PFF has to say about Clowney's pass rush. Their formula for pass-rush productivity: Sacks + (0.75 x Hits) + (0.75 x Hurries)/ Pass Rushing Snaps x 100 = PRP

While there are those who would assume that because of Clowney’s physical prowess and pedigree, he must also be an exceptional pass-rusher — that is not exactly the case. He has improved as a pass-rusher since entering the league when he earned a 64.6 pass-rushing grade, which is much closer to average than elite. Every season since, Clowney has improved upon his pass-rushing grade, which resulted in a career-high 78.8 pass-rushing grade in 2018. Clowney has been solid coming off the edge for the Texans, generating 58 or more pressures in each of his last three seasons and earning a career-high nine sacks last year, showing he is more than capable of terrorizing opposing quarterbacks.

The reason that Clowney hasn’t graded particularly well when it comes to pass-rushing is due to his lack of efficiency, which has been an issue throughout his young career. Last season, Clowney produced a pass-rush productivity of only 6.2, which ranked tied for 55th among qualifying edge defenders. In 2017, he managed a slightly better mark of 7.9 (T-39th), and in 2016 he generated a PRP of 6.2 (T-59th), demonstrating that maintaining efficiency when pass-rushing with a significant number of attempts has been an issue for Clowney thus far. This is not to say that Clowney has been bad as a pass-rusher, as he can provide significant value when pass-rushing through his ability to rush from different alignments and stances. Last season, only five of Clowney’s nine sacks and 36 of his pressures came from the right end alignment, while all others came from the OLB position or various other positions. He has demonstrated effectiveness when rushing from the interior, especially when in a two-point stance.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Think about this for a second....starting in week 7: Clowney, Reed, Poona, Ziggy, Bobby, KJ and Kendricks. I doubt you'll find many better than what the Hawks could put on the field with those guys.

 

[kf3339]

Not yet.

The Seahawks need to see where they stand as a team first, and play 4-6 games at least.


Then if they feel they are ahead of schedule on their championship rebuild, they can then go ahead and acquire an additional pass rusher for their expected deep playoff run.

Clowney maybe off the market by then, but there will be other pass rushers available, for a lower price that could still help.

Seattle needs to slow play this, there is no need to be hhasty, patience.

I'm very much in this camp as well. With Reed out the first six games and Ansah and Collier coming off injuries it just seems we don't know what our D-line will look like that first six games. Let's see where we stand and then make a move when more information is gained.

I also wonder if it's smart to know that Clowney's salary demands on top of Reed and potentially Ansah would impact our team budget dynamics. He is a very good player, but perhaps just not the right move at this point.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Think about this for a second....starting in week 7: Clowney, Reed, Poona, Ziggy, Bobby, KJ and Kendricks. I doubt you'll find many better than what the Hawks could put on the field with those guys.

For Penny and a 2nd? Cause that's about the level of starter and pick Houston's looking for.

We all know we'd love Clowney, what are you willing to give up is the question we need to answer.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Not for a 2nd and Penny. A 2nd and CJ would be more doable. This team needs to stick with Penny, just my own opinion.

 

[McGruff]

By the same token that Clowney's run stuffing "metrics" are augmented by him playing 34 OLB, his pass rushing metrics are similarly hurt by the position he has played.

 

[2_0_6]

I wonder if a three team deal between the hawks, Bills and Texans could take place. We get Clowney, they get Shady McCoy, and the Bills get signed Tom Brady jersey's.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Not for a 2nd and Penny. A 2nd and CJ would be more doable. This team needs to stick with Penny, just my own opinion.

I agree, plus most reports say Houston's looking for a LT. Which is why they're after Tunsil in Miami........also why nothing's happened, cause I don't know ANY team that'd give up a good to great LT for any player other than QB.

Too hard to find a good one.

 

[johnnyfever]

My take:

Possible positives- as pff has pointed out, he is athletically a monster, and I believe can be HOF caliber. Problem in the past has been injuries and possibly lack of good coaching. If he can stay healthy, I think we could turn him into a great asset. GREAT for a D that is having issues on the back end.

Negatives- he will be expensive to keep. If he turns into what I think he can, he would be a good replacement leadership wise for bobby. This would justify the cost. If he is just an above average pass rusher with a high ceiling, then it's not worth the expense. It is also possible we inherit an expensive injury vacuum.

Overall, if they get him on a team friendly deal for a trade we can handle, I would be up for the experiment. Seattle is on his short list, so this is possible. On the other side if he would hamstring our cap plan on a coin flip, then let him go to another team.

 

[Jville]

I want to acknowledge Jadeveon Clowney for single handily generating 6 pages of posts. He's not even on the team and yet it's taking all of a dozen wide receivers to generate as many posts while trying to keep up with him.

He's amazing

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Wait til he signs somewhere, here or for another team. Might be another 10 pages of "stupid move" vs. "great move" :lol:

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I want to acknowledge Jadeveon Clowney for single handily generating 6 pages of posts. He's not even on the team and yet it's taking all of a dozen wide receivers to generate as many posts while trying to keep up with him.

He's amazing

Welcome to preseason, let me show you around.

Don't you worry, after tonight we'll have all sorts of riveting which WR's make the practice squad and which body part did CJ injure this time posts to argue over.

 

[Seymour]

950 Is reporting that the Seahawks have now inquired with the Texans about permission to discuss the potential Clowney trade. :34853_doh:

 

[Chawker]

I believe this has ended in a mexican stand off. :34853_doh:

 

[SoulfishHawk]

This same time on Saturday afternoon: "This front office sucks, they didn't pick the guy that I WANTED!!!" :lol: