The Leo position and undersized LBs

[kearly]

Last season, Chris Clemons was our LEO and had a playing weight between 255-260 pounds. Bruce Irvin was 245, and showed signs of not being big enough. Raheem Brock played at 274.

Seattle is making the SAM position and LEO position somewhat interchangeable this season, almost like 3-4 OLB. But even in that arrangement, Bruce Irvin is committed to play linebacker and isn't even expected to be a pure pass-rusher. So you would think that Seattle would still be targeting pass rushers that were 250+ pounds.

Instead, they've moved Malcolm Smith into competition for the SAM job, which basically makes him sort of like a part-time LEO. And according to Seahawks.com, the team is also trying out LB Mike Morgan to LEO. Mike Morgan and Malcolm Smith are both listed at just 226 pounds, which would make them among the very lightest linebackers in the NFL, and mind-blowingly lightweight for a potential 3-point stance pass rusher. Even 2012 Bruce Irvin had 20 pounds on these guys!

Given Pete's track record, the crazier the idea, the less we should doubt his wisdom. I don't know if Pete is making a mistake or in the midst of a stroke of genius. What I do know is this- the LEO and SAM positions are nothing like what they used to be.

I am highly intrigued to see how Pete uses a 226 pound rush end. I think it's very interesting that out of all the linebackers Pete could choose for this kind of role, he picked the two most undersized ones. He wouldn't do something like that randomly. He's got something interesting up his sleeve here.

(edit: Just saw that Morgan is up to 241 pounds. So it's not quite as crazy as I thought.)

 

[RolandDeschain]

Pete Carroll pretty much defines "crazy like a fox"; I can't wait to see how this works out.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

What I think is hilarious is that you have guys like Monty Kiffen talking about "we have to be like the Seahawks" going as far as doing a complete scheme switch without the correct personnel or actually understanding the actual scheme. All the while Pete is going with a completely different scheme not even you brainiacs totally understand yet.

Even Kansas City is trying out elements of Seattle's defensive scheme (press coverage rather than read and react).

 

[Thaihawk]

I always think about what Pete has said about evaluating players specific strengths and goals and trying to put them in position to maximize those strengths. Pete is very open to tweaking things to accommodate what his players can do well. I love watching the "out of the box" results this philosophy produces.

 

[Scottemojo]

What I think is hilarious is that you have guys like Monty Kiffen talking about "we have to be like the Seahawks" going as far as doing a complete scheme switch without the correct personnel or actually understanding the actual scheme. All the while Pete is going with a completely different scheme not even you brainiacs totally understand yet.

Even Kansas City is trying out elements of Seattle's defensive scheme (press coverage rather than read and react).

Kiffen understands the scheme.
I love that the Seattle D is always evolving. Reminds me a baseball lineup with a variety of lefties, righties, and switch hitters. Depending on who we face, the scheme and personnel could be pretty different.

And that is the best part of what we are seeing, like Kip said, we have some faith this will work even though we have not seen how it looks. Because one thing we know is Pete will not make a habit of putting players in a position to fail. Scheme does not trump ability.

 

[Seafan]

Another twist is the LEO won't always be in a 3 point stance. Essentially a rushing OLB.

 

[Anonymous]

It appears that some folks got together in the off-season and locked themselves in a dark room with a pile of film...

Apparently, Pete has grown weary of the lack of pass rush and has taken steps to address the issues.

Wait, so, that means the coaching staff is doing exactly what they are getting paid to do? Awesome.

 

[EverydayImRusselin]

How does Avril and Clemons when he is healthy, factor into this?

My X's & O's aren't that sharp, but the SAM lines up outside Big Red and the LEO is on the opposite side right?

 

[Largent80]

Pete has beat the league to the punch every year so far. And now everyone is copying us.

Innovation is how things are invented.

 

[Ruminator]

Finally, some real hope that the days of Seahawk D being unable to get off the field after a third-and-long are over! Nothing was more frustrating the last few years than seeing opponents convert multiple third-and-longs with seeming ease.

 

[SmokinHawk]

I will never doubt Pete's ability to scheme a defense. The guy is one of the truly great defensive masterminds of this era.

 

[Sarlacc83]

So, this is either going to be a gigantic success or a spectacular failure without any middle ground between the two, then. At least it'll be interesting.

 

[RolandDeschain]

So, this is either going to be a gigantic success or a spectacular failure without any middle ground between the two, then. At least it'll be interesting.

Definitely interesting. If it succeeds, and our defense is better than last year's overall, we'll be able to say that Papa Pete's the best defensive mastermind in the game right now, Dick LeBeau be damned.

 

[Ad Hawk]

Pete's only plan is to keep the 12th man up late discussing and debating his intentionality or lack thereof. :twisted:

 

[kearly]

So, this is either going to be a gigantic success or a spectacular failure without any middle ground between the two, then. At least it'll be interesting.

Sort of. If it fails, they can always just go back to what they were doing before. Which with the new additions, would probably land in the middle ground area.

 

[SalishHawkFan]

The biggest thing they need to fix is their rush defense, not their pass rush. Not that they don't need to improve upon their pass rush, but after week 10 last year, the rush defense ranked 26th in the NFL. Bryant is crucial to the scheme and an injured Bryant along with Irvin being nonexistent vs the run made for a defense that got run over by Washington and Atlanta in the playoffs. Just crossing our fingers and hoping Bryant's foot isn't a nagging injury (PF generally is) and that we've improved our dline isn't going to cut it. I understand moving Irvin off that line to the LB position, just so you can keep him in the game while shoring up the rush defense with someone who can, you know, actually stop the run. But these lightweight defenders only heighten my concern. In Pete I Trust, but I'm a hardcore X-Files fan so I always fall back on Trust No One.

 

[SDHawk]

The biggest thing they need to fix is their rush defense, not their pass rush. Not that they don't need to improve upon their pass rush, but after week 10 last year, the rush defense ranked 26th in the NFL. Bryant is crucial to the scheme and an injured Bryant along with Irvin being nonexistent vs the run made for a defense that got run over by Washington and Atlanta in the playoffs. Just crossing our fingers and hoping Bryant's foot isn't a nagging injury (PF generally is) and that we've improved our dline isn't going to cut it. I understand moving Irvin off that line to the LB position, just so you can keep him in the game while shoring up the rush defense with someone who can, you know, actually stop the run. But these lightweight defenders only heighten my concern. In Pete I Trust, but I'm a hardcore X-Files fan so I always fall back on Trust No One.

I very much agree with this sentiment. Run defense is a priority over pass rush though both were needs going into the off-season. However, my feeling is that we adequately addressed these concerns. Jesse Williams, Michael Bennett and a healthy Red Bryant should be an instant boost to our run defense. Acquiring Winfield also helps with regard to run defense. Our pass rush has ostensibly improved with the additions of Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett, though I am very skeptical of Avril's ability away from Suh and Fairley.

Still, it's curious to see Pete trying the likes of Smith and Morgan at LEO. In my mind, this is just PC's way of augmenting depth at the position and have a really hard time envisioning the two playing LEO outside of a handful of passing downs.

 

[kearly]

Our rush defense has pretty much always been erratic game to game under Carroll, and every time it's finished the season in the early to mid teens. I'm really curious to see how the rush defense fares with all these changes- all of them seem to favor pass rush at the expense of run defense (most notably, moving Wright away from SAM and replacing him with far inferior rush defenders).

Scott floated the idea that Pete is just building a versatile defense like Rex Ryan has in New York- one that allows him to emphasize the pass against most teams but go run defense heavy against rushing teams. I hope Scott is right, because the current setup is going to have some issues against the run, unless our big guys (Bryant, Bennett, Williams, Mebane) stay healthy and all have great seasons.

 

[SalishHawkFan]

Our rush defense has pretty much always been erratic game to game under Carroll, and every time it's finished the season in the early to mid teens. I'm really curious to see how the rush defense fares with all these changes- all of them seem to favor pass rush at the expense of run defense (most notably, moving Wright away from SAM and replacing him with far inferior rush defenders).

Scott floated the idea that Pete is just building a versatile defense like Rex Ryan has in New York- one that allows him to emphasize the pass against most teams but go run defense heavy against rushing teams. I hope Scott is right, because the current setup is going to have some issues against the run, unless our big guys (Bryant, Bennett, Williams, Mebane) stay healthy and all have great seasons.

In fairness - and retrospect, having thought more about it - part of the reason for the defenses poor rushing stats after week 10 probably have to do with the fact we led by so much we were defending the pass and so were more vulnerable to the run. But that's not the whole story. Bryant's injury had a serious impact. Plantar fasciaitis is one of those nagging things that come back and never really goes away. He might start the season early, but even if every 300 lb lineman for the Niners doesn't stomp on that foot week 2 just to flame it back up, it's going to be an issue again halfway into the season.

 

[Tech Worlds]

Pete's way of getting the best athletes on the field.