The Mounting Evidence Against Tom Cable Is Insurmountable

Pandion Haliaetus

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mrt144":1g1q6j0h said:
Pandion Haliaetus":1g1q6j0h said:
Cable is a great offensive line coach.














10-15 years ago. NFL killed the original ZBS. Cable never or refuses to adjust. That’s his flaw. Look at what Solari is doing with his blocking designs. He isn’t sticking to one scheme and has been mixing it up so much defenses don’t know what to expect even if they know more than half times Seahawks are running the ball. That’s what great coaches do. They adapt and create on top of coaching technique.

And yet the NFL has a hell of a time actually ever letting go of people resting on their laurels whatever those may be including draft pick position. It's bananas and I hate it. I know that it isn't singularly unique to the NFL that merit is only part of a consideration in advancement and opportunity but...the social capital some dues raise while crapping the bed and falling behind their peers in ways we can observed in several ways...it seems like if any one thing should avoid social capital counting for dick it's a daggum game played at the professional level. That's not to say rapport doesn't matter but rapport is not the same thing as social capital. And with all the nepotism in the league being a form of inherent social capital (and fair, this happens across industry and sector) , it's one aspect of sports that I think severely lags behind it's fullest potential.

I'll use the term coach to relate to any coaching position on staff - I don't want to have to carve out specifics every time I use the word cause I'm gonna use it a lot.

You have people living their lives through sports but are not even close to scholars or theorists of the game. While they didn't wind up as a coach by accident, they would be doing another job in the same exact way as they perform their NFL job. Learn enough to be competent, execute at level of competency, put bread on the table and don't stick out in bad ways. People don't wind up coaching football by accident or necessity but for some it feels like it is almost incidental that they are football coaches. And I know any coach who heard this would probably sock me in the throat Woody-style but I'm sure they could name a coworker or assistant or underling where this rings true. Not everyone has to rise above this station to even be good at what they do, but there are a lot of dudes that won't accept that they are doing it worse than their peers and actually humble themselves into the effort to improve. And they will be hired in spite of this because of accrued social capital and fellow buffoons elevating past glories above consistent recent awfulness.

And I have railed on this for what seems like years now but becoming an NFL coach is hard and respect to the dudes who do it for a living. But it's hard in ways that I think are underappreciated and not as hard in ways people always imagine.

First, right off the bat, you don't have to be a tactical genius to be a position coach, coordinator, or NFL coach. This should be QED. You don't even have to be particularly smart or adept at game theory or learn about game theory intuitively through playing the game. But you have to show competency at some point and if you never do welp, you're gonna have to be the son of somebody to get more than a few opportunities. And this is overall appearance of competency. Andy Reid is notorious for clock management issues - and yet his teams consistently perform well and thus he keeps his job and even when let go by the Eagles takes his show on the road and basically is the same Andy Reid we've always known. Don't sleep on how good Andy Reid probably is as a coach in spite of his issues.

Second, you have to go through a lot of crap along the way. Social events, constant social interaction, constant media interaction, constant third party judgment, availability to drop everything for an opportunity halfway across the country and break the hearts of where you already are, ceding more to work in work/life balance, getting just the right of emotionally invested in your players and coworkers.

It is certainly not a job everyone could go through the motions of. Think about why some dudes coach high school their entire lives and do it so much better than everyone else around them. Is it because they can't hack it at the college level? Is it because they are living their football dream where as long as they keep doing their thing they got it made? Any number of reasons really - but I'm sure a non trivial amount of coaches in the lower levels simply don't want to coach at a higher level for reasons. So you have to have the will and determination to do the necessary moves that you think will land you the job you really want. And sometimes a coach like Jim Harbaugh climbs the ladder relatively rapidly not just on name recognition alone but on doing pretty damn well with the situation's he was put in and it still doesn't count for much with his former NFL employer because he's a caustic arrogant dork. Harbuagh doesn't play the social game like many others would and for all the good he can do as a tactical and game minded coach - he hasn't met a bridge he couldn't burn quickly enough and that matters.

Third, you have to hitch your star to the right coaching tree to maximize your opportunities. Think about how many Belichick disciples there have been and how so many of them seem like they only learned how to be grumps at the podium from him. And some didn't even learn that! These dudes don't coordinate under BB many of them would simply not be given some of the HC jobs available. I might be a bit hyperbolic in how much I think this matters but my impression from just mapping out a few coaching trees leaves me with the impression that it is an advancement to HC booster if the team is successful enough. If not successful at least lateral moves.

Fourth, a large problem is that the people hiring the coaching apparatus are delusional about whatever football knowledge they think they understand.If a certain franchise wanted you to coach for them, that might be a sign that you are not a good coach. It is like a hexed half dead flea ridden dog setting his sight on you and falling in love and never leaving your side - you are cursed by this affection! Said franchises categorically hire bad football people because they are miscalculating the factors that are important in football success. I don't claim to know those factors but I know the Browns have not been doing it right for far too long.

Although I have to be soft on Jerry Jones - if I was an owner, I would probably be worse. Maybe way worse. I get it, you own the team, you want to live out the dream you've likely always had. No regrets!

Fifth, you have to actually love football a ton. Is this really different than putting up with crap? Yes. It's one thing to put up with crap because the monetary reward is worth it, it's another put up with crap because teh emotional reward is worth it. What does it satisfy? What are aspects you couldn't do without as a coach? This is a leap that many of us fans will never be able to make because as much as I love football, I would not want it as a job day in and day out because I don't LOVE love football. I love aspects of football but that's every fan with opinions on football. And really I'm in love with the process of analyzing football more than contributing to the execution of football. And there aren't any gigs for fans with opinions except in the media. Even so, among the peer group that gets into coaching, it's a passion that is likely so similar among the peer group that it doesn't mean squat relative to output.

Sixth, This is what you get when you mix rumnog and weed. Self indulgent diatribes!

Quite a tangent. Well said. I think Carroll was holding on to Cable’s vision more than anything. And the facts Seahawks lost a key/starting lineman pretty much every season after 2013 as well as all the injuries that occurred in that time to the Oline/RBs/TEs just mucked up that reality that maybe Cable can’t actually coach in today’s league. It probably wasn’t until the moment Duane Brown came in and Carroll really just saw how bad Cable’s technique or lack there of was either not working or just out dated. It happens. I’m sure Carroll has learned his lesson in not being too complacent.
 

Pandion Haliaetus

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sdog1981":3lgwvxu4 said:
Pandion Haliaetus":3lgwvxu4 said:
Cable is a great offensive line coach.














10-15 years ago. NFL killed the original ZBS. Cable never or refuses to adjust. That’s his flaw. Look at what Solari is doing with his blocking designs. He isn’t sticking to one scheme and has been mixing it up so much defenses don’t know what to expect even if they know more than half times Seahawks are running the ball. That’s what great coaches do. They adapt and create on top of coaching technique.


You say that but that's not true. From 1997 to 2010 Tom Cable was fired in three years or less with every job he had. He was fired as an OC, HC, and OL coach. Then 2010 came along and he got a job with the Seahawks.

Tom Cable is the classic example of failing upwards. He looks and sounds like an Oline coach so he can ace some interviews.

It was more of a blanket statement base on how much we hear it from broadcasters, analysts, and talking heads. I’m just saying the ZBS in general was great 10-15 years ago when it could function properly to its violent nature.
 

Bobblehead

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Hated the hire from the first place.
THought he was a loser at Oakland and,well, he's a loser here.
Good riddance.
 

West TX Hawk

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ivotuk":w7pzs9ga said:
Last year Ray Roberts was saying "Germaine can't punch, because Cable has him playing with his arms extended. So all he's able to do is "catch" the defensive player. You need to be able to punch and knock them off balance when you're a man as big and powerful as Ifedi is."

Really unbelievable a modern day OL coach would be instructing guys to block with their arms completely extended. Just seems like a common sense approach to have your hands in for better leverage. Just think how many other guys Cable screwed up with poor mechanics and technique. Ifedi and Brown are night and day from what they were a year ago. Solari has been the most welcome coach here since Pete himself was hired.
 

ducks41468

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Cable is a perfect example of the good ole' boy-ism pervading football. The guy went 11-35 at freaking Idaho (back when Idaho was actually a semi-respectable program), and should've never been heard from again, yet somehow continued to fail upwards from there. Not to mention he's an asshole. One of my least favorite people in all of sports.
 

hawk45

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mrt144":2r88l2et said:
I don't know why I had to fight so hard to make this case while he was here.
Just as there is a contingent of fans who will oversimplify root causes for failure to support a negative position on a coach, there is a contingent of fans who will overcomplicate root causes to support the opposite position.

Taken to extremes, it leads to the "don't trust your own eyes" posture we saw on this board around cable.

IMO the most ridiculous manifestation of this was the defense of cable experimenting with non OL players because college OL were apparently not NFL ready due to college schemes.

How the answer to this problem would ever have been to use players with even *less* experience is a mystery. I know the theory was no bad habits to train out of players but the evidence of other teams using the same college OL raw materials with far greater results was so dispositive in my eyes I am at a loss to explain how anyone fell for it.

The fact that Pete fell for it for 7 years should at least put paid to the notion that fans are too remote from the day to day workings of a team to come to meaningful conclusions.

Just as sometimes the obvious conclusion is facile, sometimes the obvious conclusion is correct.
 

James in PA

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Shhh! Don’t tell lazy broadcasters who refuse to do their homework and just recycle what they’ve heard for years.

I’m looking at you Troy Aikman!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

raisethe3

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I remember back when the board were hating on Ifedi. LOL.

I knew he wasn't a bad player. It had to be something else. Low and behold, its Tom Cable that's holding him back.

Great breakdown Fade.
 

Jazzhawk

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ducks41468":2b9pkiib said:
Cable is a perfect example of the good ole' boy-ism pervading football. The guy went 11-35 at freaking Idaho (back when Idaho was actually a semi-respectable program), and should've never been heard from again, yet somehow continued to fail upwards from there. Not to mention he's an asshole. One of my least favorite people in all of sports.
And yet his work lead to two Super Bowl appearances and one win. Ya, you're a real gem alright.

Look, I'm glad he's gone, but dude, STFU.
 

chris98251

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Really I think Cable was astute at the original ZBS, he learned from Gibbs, problem is he wasn't a great technician and technique teacher as far as schemes of the O line in general and could not adapt mostly because he did not know how to run another system. All he has done is work with the original ZBS. Solari however is a guy that's knows technique and different systems and can adapt and teach to his OC's offense as well as his talent.
 

Seymour

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The evidence has been mounting on Cable since 2013 when we won a SB and were dead last in pass pro with the highest paid oline in the league. :pukeface:

Too bad for us that Pete did not get the message for 4 more years.
 

GeekHawk

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Jazzhawk":wej4o5aq said:
ducks41468":wej4o5aq said:
Cable is a perfect example of the good ole' boy-ism pervading football. The guy went 11-35 at freaking Idaho (back when Idaho was actually a semi-respectable program), and should've never been heard from again, yet somehow continued to fail upwards from there. Not to mention he's an asshole. One of my least favorite people in all of sports.
And yet his work lead to two Super Bowl appearances and one win. Ya, you're a real gem alright.

Look, I'm glad he's gone, but dude, STFU.

Cable's "work" didn't lead to any damn thing like that at all. All success here was in SPITE of Cable. It took him a couple of years to completely screw the pooch on the O-line, but by the time his "work" was fully realized, we consistently had the absolute worst line in the NFL and it wasn't even close. We would be ranked #32, but that was only because that's as far as it could go. We would have been ranked behind several college O-lines too if it worked that way. If you're giving *ANY* of the Super Bowl credit to rhymes-with-unable, then there's really no way to break through your delusional state. :177692:

Holy shit, man.
 

Seymour

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Funny that at a time when man will soon colonize other planets, Pete still rode a dinosaur to the ball game.
 

BigMeach

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Fade":2b93s500 said:
Germain Ifedi is now a good football player. His technique is now night & day. I cannot believe it. Give Solari a raise.

[youtube]YS_N2PtQXwg[/youtube]


I didn't know you made youtube videos as well Fade, props man!
 
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