The NFC West will be a bloodbath this year

[Cartire]

Believe me, I firmly think our 'Hawks will prevail and win the division. I just don't think these games will be "cakewalks".

The other three defenses look incredibly tough (if you're watching the pre-season). And the other three starting offenses are no joke.

I'm just sayin', it's going to come down to game plan-n-execution.

Seahawks: 14 - 2

Homefield advantage,..............Superbowl.

(Too many periods??????)

You are basing this on pre-season? Did you actually WATCH either of the Rams games? Nothing you say here applies to either of those games.

Thank you. I thought I had gone crazy reading through this thread. I've actually watched the games (I know you were too, because I remember you commenting during the Rams Titans game) and even though its preseason, the Rams look unmotivated and disoriented at times.

 

[Laloosh]

I hope the Rams d-line looks like that in week 1.

 

[kearly]

Carson Palmer's having a great camp. What if he's healthy all year? Why do you see them getting crappy again?

Palmer can't stay healthy. Their run game is terrible. Their defense last year overachieved thanks to a very good DC who left during the offseason. They also lost some good players on defense.

The Cardinals defense isn't very good if you can punish the blitz. Teams figured that out late last year, and the Cardinals defense collapsed because of it.

The only real optimism I had for Arizona was their revamped run game, but now Iupati is injured and their RBs are struggling so much that they had to sign Chris Johnson.

Even when Palmer was healthy last year and the defense was overachieving, the Cardinals DVOA was right around zero. At one point they were on pace for a 14-2 season with the statistical performance of a 7-9 team. By the end of the year, the carriage turned into a pumpkin. Arians is a good coach, but getting a mediocre team to overachieve won't be enough to overtake the NFL's best team.

 

[ringless]

Carson Palmer's having a great camp. What if he's healthy all year? Why do you see them getting crappy again?

Palmer can't stay healthy. Their run game is terrible. Their defense last year overachieved thanks to a very good DC who left during the offseason. They also lost some good players on defense.

The Cardinals defense isn't very good if you can punish the blitz. Teams figured that out late last year, and the Cardinals defense collapsed because of it.

The only real optimism I had for Arizona was their revamped run game, but now Iupati is injured and their RBs are struggling so much that they had to sign Chris Johnson.

Even when Palmer was healthy last year and the defense was overachieving, the Cardinals DVOA was right around zero. At one point they were on pace for a 14-2 season with the statistical performance of a 7-9 team. By the end of the year, the carriage turned into a pumpkin. Arians is a good coach, but getting a mediocre team to overachieve won't be enough to overtake the NFL's best team.

Kearly,

You no doubt no more about football then I do. More than I will ever know.

But I do think you put too much stock into DVOA and it isn't the end all. DVOA didn't take into account that we were missing as many starters as we were last year. The DVOA with Palmer sure it says its close to zero. However we were a +52 with Palmer and about a -40 without. Thats a huge swing.

Nobody knows if Palmer will stay healthy or not. Thats the IF. There is also the potential he will. I think the wheels came undone at the end of last year because we had just had too many injuries by that time. We had a QB who was unemployed a month prior throwing passes. We were down to a 4th String RB by the end of the season. Things DVOA doesnt take into account.

Chris Johnson may not even make the team now that Juke Johnson is back and made big plays everytime he touched the ball.

In saying all that Im not a complete homer. I think our Defense will likely take a step back. Because of Bowles departure, and Dan Williams who was very underrated but had a huge impact. We got Peters to replace him and now he is out for the season. The fact that it seems Daryl Washington will not be on the team is a blow. I think our issue this year again will be the same. Relying too much on a blitz, and even when blitzing not being able to apply pressure. The reason we blitzed so much last year was we just couldn't generate pressure. I think that issue will be the same this year.

Our offense should be better this year than last however. It just might compensate for the drop off in D in total production. I know a lot of people think we were a lucky team. But if you watched this team they played through the whistle and just outworked people until the final whistle. They created a lot of their own luck despite all the losses incurred to suspension and IR. DVOA isn't everything, its a useful tool. But it is missing a lot of context. But again, you do truly no a lot more than myself

But if Earl Thomas and Wilson were missing last year would your DVOA have changed? Would last years DVOA be used as a way to predict this years with those players back and being healthy? Thats my issue with it. Its great, but still incomplete in a sense.

 

[Laloosh]

^^ Regarding your offense, isn't your o-line banged up and/or struggling? If so, how do you expect Palmer to fare?

I must concede that I haven't watched any AZ preseason action.

 

[NINEster]

With the four best defenses in the league.

And the four quality QB's.

And the ground games,......and WR's,......

......I think this is going to be a VERY interesting season.

I'm not counting ANYONE out.

Just sayin'.

Won't be the 4 best defenses in the league... and don;t think it was last year either.

Bills and Broncos will have better D then 49ers at the minimum would expect better than Arizona and LA Rams too.

It's weird.....you have to look at defenses both on its own and as a division foe.

The Rams have not had the best defense in the league any of the last several years but when they show up to play the NFC West they're usually tough. They often play the Hawks better than the Cards or 49ers.

Look at the Packers and Patriots.....two traditional decent but not great defenses, and their post season games against the Seahawks.

 

[NINEster]

Carson Palmer's having a great camp. What if he's healthy all year? Why do you see them getting crappy again?

Palmer can't stay healthy. Their run game is terrible. Their defense last year overachieved thanks to a very good DC who left during the offseason. They also lost some good players on defense.

The Cardinals defense isn't very good if you can punish the blitz. Teams figured that out late last year, and the Cardinals defense collapsed because of it.

The only real optimism I had for Arizona was their revamped run game, but now Iupati is injured and their RBs are struggling so much that they had to sign Chris Johnson.

Even when Palmer was healthy last year and the defense was overachieving, the Cardinals DVOA was right around zero. At one point they were on pace for a 14-2 season with the statistical performance of a 7-9 team. By the end of the year, the carriage turned into a pumpkin. Arians is a good coach, but getting a mediocre team to overachieve won't be enough to overtake the NFL's best team.

In saying all that Im not a complete homer. I think our Defense will likely take a step back. Because of Bowles departure, and Dan Williams who was very underrated but had a huge impact. We got Peters to replace him and now he is out for the season. The fact that it seems Daryl Washington will not be on the team is a blow. I think our issue this year again will be the same. Relying too much on a blitz, and even when blitzing not being able to apply pressure. The reason we blitzed so much last year was we just couldn't generate pressure. I think that issue will be the same this year.

I think the talk of demise for NFC West defenses not named Seattle is overrated.

The entire division has strong defense as their identity for the last several years. It's what they do. Plug and play whomever you want they'll still be good.

Look at the 49ers in the Nolan and Singletary years...they had good defenses. Maybe not top 5, but enough to give plenty of good offenses fits those years. They were a 6-8 win team year in and year out because of average offense. I look back at the 2009 and 2010 49ers stifling the Colts in Indy, Vikings in Minnesota, Saints at home, Falcons in Atlanta....they lost every game but were within a field goal of winning/tying in every game (and gave up a miracle to the Vikings).

Who was on those defense besides Willis and Justin Smith? Ahmad Brooks not quite in his own, Ray McDonald not yet a strong player, Dashon Goldson was decent but not great.....it wasn't exactly the 2011-2013 squads.

Rams and Cardinals will field good defenses too this year. I don't know the ins and outs of their rosters but have seen how they play against the league the last few years to know they'll be ok.

I will be SHOCKED if these 3 defenses fall very far, and even more shocked if they don't show up in division games.

You look at the Saints, Packers, Giants, Patriots, Cowboys.......those teams year in and year out just field good offenses. It really doesn't matter who is there.

Now let's talk Seattle....

Here's a defense that might regress a bit. This is year #3 about to start of everybody knowing that this defense is legit. Fielding a suffocating defense doesn't last forever, not when you're dealing with the cap, long seasons, luck of the draw. You have 3 defensive players unhappy.....two vocal and one holding out.

I can't picture a scenario where Seattle has a crap defense of course, but having this defense bail the team out like it did so valiantly in the NFC Championship game, I'm not so sure will last forever.

If you want to bank on the demise of the NFC West foes, bank on offenses that don't perform up to par. Don't rely on defenses sucking, you'll be disappointed.

 

[Sac]

Niners suck

 

[Laloosh]

I think the talk of demise for NFC West defenses not named Seattle is overrated.

The entire division has strong defense as their identity for the last several years. It's what they do. Plug and play whomever you want they'll still be good.

Look at the 49ers in the Nolan and Singletary years...they had good defenses. Maybe not top 5, but enough to give plenty of good offenses fits those years. They were a 6-8 win team year in and year out because of average offense. I look back at the 2009 and 2010 49ers stifling the Colts in Indy, Vikings in Minnesota, Saints at home, Falcons in Atlanta....they lost every game but were within a field goal of winning/tying in every game (and gave up a miracle to the Vikings).

Who was on those defense besides Willis and Justin Smith? Ahmad Brooks not quite in his own, Ray McDonald not yet a strong player, Dashon Goldson was decent but not great.....it wasn't exactly the 2011-2013 squads.

Rams and Cardinals will field good defenses too this year. I don't know the ins and outs of their rosters but have seen how they play against the league the last few years to know they'll be ok.

I will be SHOCKED if these 3 defenses fall very far, and even more shocked if they don't show up in division games.

You look at the Saints, Packers, Giants, Patriots, Cowboys.......those teams year in and year out just field good offenses. It really doesn't matter who is there.

Now let's talk Seattle....

Here's a defense that might regress a bit. This is year #3 about to start of everybody knowing that this defense is legit. Fielding a suffocating defense doesn't last forever, not when you're dealing with the cap, long seasons, luck of the draw. You have 3 defensive players unhappy.....two vocal and one holding out.

I can't picture a scenario where Seattle has a crap defense of course, but having this defense bail the team out like it did so valiantly in the NFC Championship game, I'm not so sure will last forever.

If you want to bank on the demise of the NFC West foes, bank on offenses that don't perform up to par. Don't rely on defenses sucking, you'll be disappointed.

All of that just to say that our defense might not be as good because we have some players that want more money, season length and luck of the draw? You should try your hand at fortune telling w/ the kind of filler you can wrap around such an anticlimactic conclusion.

Here's the depth chart, tell me where we're going to get beat up or fall off to any real extent.

http://www.seahawks.com/team/depth-chart

STL - defense ranked 16th in the league in 2014 (14th rushing and 19th in passing). Why are they even in the discussion until they prove something? They were young and talented last year as well, didn't do much for their record or ranking.

AZ - defense ranked 5th despite their craptastic dvoa as kearly has pointed out which indicates a team that got extremely lucky in 2014. Unlike Seattle, AZ has not shown that it can endure a change at defensive coordinator and prominent personnel without regressing.

SF - Give me a freaking break. I don't even have to run through the list. The loss of Fangio alone is likely enough to bump you out of the top 10, now you've lost so many guys to arrest and/or retirement that you'll be lucky to be in the top half of the league.

Yeah, I think of all of the NFCW teams, SEA's defense is most likely to continue on it's course (by far).

 

[Hawk-Lock]

Wow I can't believe you actually think the Niners have a top 4 defense in the NFL. Try bottom 4.

It will be a bloodbath, but in the end I think we dominate the division.

Bloodbath could be in the AFC East. Phins, Bills and Jets all have really good defenses, and you can never count out the Pats. AFC North as usual will be a bloodbath, and don't sleep on the Browns defense.

 

[NINEster]

You guys think so highly about your defense but based on what I saw last year, the Hawks fall off noticeably if a Mebane or a Wagner get hurt. If you lost just one of your top 3 LOB, would've been even worse.

Meanwhile SF could not field any semblance of a pre-2014 Harbaugh front 7 at one time and still made a top 5 ranking. Willis and Borland retired yet outside of losing Aldon, the LB corps stays more or less the same with regards to who ACTUALLY PLAYED last year.

There's some turnover at corner which is concerning but at the same time nobody knows what it means. Except you guys of course. DL another question mark, but they'll get much needed big boys back in Ian Williams and Glenn Dorsey.

AZ lost Ray Horton and kept ticking. Rams always flummox Wilson, and the one time he has a good game the Hawks still lost.

Thread title is about nfc west wars, not DVOA across the league.

But go on, believe the Hawks are going 6-0 in division winning each game by double digit scores.

My prediction is that Seattle goes 3-3 in division like they normally do, 4-2 tops.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Because the opinion of a Niner fan is so important to us.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

Carson Palmer's having a great camp. What if he's healthy all year? Why do you see them getting crappy again?

Palmer can't stay healthy. Their run game is terrible. Their defense last year overachieved thanks to a very good DC who left during the offseason. They also lost some good players on defense.

The Cardinals defense isn't very good if you can punish the blitz. Teams figured that out late last year, and the Cardinals defense collapsed because of it.

The only real optimism I had for Arizona was their revamped run game, but now Iupati is injured and their RBs are struggling so much that they had to sign Chris Johnson.

Even when Palmer was healthy last year and the defense was overachieving, the Cardinals DVOA was right around zero. At one point they were on pace for a 14-2 season with the statistical performance of a 7-9 team. By the end of the year, the carriage turned into a pumpkin. Arians is a good coach, but getting a mediocre team to overachieve won't be enough to overtake the NFL's best team.

In saying all that Im not a complete homer. I think our Defense will likely take a step back. Because of Bowles departure, and Dan Williams who was very underrated but had a huge impact. We got Peters to replace him and now he is out for the season. The fact that it seems Daryl Washington will not be on the team is a blow. I think our issue this year again will be the same. Relying too much on a blitz, and even when blitzing not being able to apply pressure. The reason we blitzed so much last year was we just couldn't generate pressure. I think that issue will be the same this year.

I think the talk of demise for NFC West defenses not named Seattle is overrated.

The entire division has strong defense as their identity for the last several years. It's what they do. Plug and play whomever you want they'll still be good.

Look at the 49ers in the Nolan and Singletary years...they had good defenses. Maybe not top 5, but enough to give plenty of good offenses fits those years. They were a 6-8 win team year in and year out because of average offense. I look back at the 2009 and 2010 49ers stifling the Colts in Indy, Vikings in Minnesota, Saints at home, Falcons in Atlanta....they lost every game but were within a field goal of winning/tying in every game (and gave up a miracle to the Vikings).

Who was on those defense besides Willis and Justin Smith? Ahmad Brooks not quite in his own, Ray McDonald not yet a strong player, Dashon Goldson was decent but not great.....it wasn't exactly the 2011-2013 squads.

Rams and Cardinals will field good defenses too this year. I don't know the ins and outs of their rosters but have seen how they play against the league the last few years to know they'll be ok.

I will be SHOCKED if these 3 defenses fall very far, and even more shocked if they don't show up in division games.

You look at the Saints, Packers, Giants, Patriots, Cowboys.......those teams year in and year out just field good offenses. It really doesn't matter who is there.

Now let's talk Seattle....

Here's a defense that might regress a bit. This is year #3 about to start of everybody knowing that this defense is legit. Fielding a suffocating defense doesn't last forever, not when you're dealing with the cap, long seasons, luck of the draw. You have 3 defensive players unhappy.....two vocal and one holding out.

I can't picture a scenario where Seattle has a crap defense of course, but having this defense bail the team out like it did so valiantly in the NFC Championship game, I'm not so sure will last forever.

If you want to bank on the demise of the NFC West foes, bank on offenses that don't perform up to par. Don't rely on defenses sucking, you'll be disappointed.

I think Frank Clark, Cassius Marsh and Bruce Irvin (in a contract year) might beg to differ with your last position.

 

[Grahamhawker]

With the mass attrition, there is no way the 9ers defense can be anywhere near as competitive.

Somethings "plug and play" can't fix.


xoxo
Captain Obvious

 

[Boom84]

Here's a defense that might regress a bit. This is year #3 about to start of everybody knowing that this defense is legit. Fielding a suffocating defense doesn't last forever, not when you're dealing with the cap, long seasons, luck of the draw. You have 3 defensive players unhappy.....two vocal and one holding out.

I can't picture a scenario where Seattle has a crap defense of course, but having this defense bail the team out like it did so valiantly in the NFC Championship game, I'm not so sure will last forever.

Totally agree on this point NINEster and what has me the most worried for this team. It's been three long seasons where the defense has held the weight of the team and the injuries are a sign of wear there. As the offense evolves, there will be a point where the defense isn't at it's best and the offense isn't yet ready to shoulder the load.

Then there's the schedule with both the NFC and AFC North teams which will make it very hard to secure home field advantage for a third year in a row, meaning the team might have to pack their bags once or twice in January.

 

[Laloosh]

You guys think so highly about your defense but based on what I saw last year, the Hawks fall off noticeably if a Mebane or a Wagner get hurt. If you lost just one of your top 3 LOB, would've been even worse.

Meanwhile SF could not field any semblance of a pre-2014 Harbaugh front 7 at one time and still made a top 5 ranking. Willis and Borland retired yet outside of losing Aldon, the LB corps stays more or less the same with regards to who ACTUALLY PLAYED last year.

There's some turnover at corner which is concerning but at the same time nobody knows what it means. Except you guys of course. DL another question mark, but they'll get much needed big boys back in Ian Williams and Glenn Dorsey.

AZ lost Ray Horton and kept ticking. Rams always flummox Wilson, and the one time he has a good game the Hawks still lost.

Thread title is about nfc west wars, not DVOA across the league.

But go on, believe the Hawks are going 6-0 in division winning each game by double digit scores.

My prediction is that Seattle goes 3-3 in division like they normally do, 4-2 tops.

Never mind. My response was pretty abrasive.

If we go 3-3 in the division, I'll let you pick my sig for the week of SEA @SF in 2016.

 

[Hawks46]

I did a general over view, but let's look at how the Seahawks match up:

Against STL: their DL matches up well against our OL, yet we still manage to run on them. Wilson rarely gets time to pass and their DL bottles him up pretty well. These are usually ugly games, but Fisher knows he's outclassed in talent so he resorts to weird ST trick plays that he doesn't do against anyone else. Their offense always struggles very badly against our defense.

ARI: we run well against them too. Look at how we played last year, and two years ago: they have problems scoring on our defense. The last time we played Palmer, he threw 4 INTs to us....so saying Palmer is going to be back isn't a good thing in this matchup. We also owned the Cards last year in pretty much every phase. Our DL will match up well against their banged up and suspended OL.

SF: They lost their DC, All Pro MLB, his solid backup, one of the best pass rushers in the league, a good DE, gee....did I miss anyone ? It's hard to see their defense keeping at it's peak. Even though their defense is top notch (or was), they can't keep us from scoring at home. Last year we owned them. On offense we manage to contain Kap pretty well and make him go to his 2nd and 3rd reads which he doesn't excel yet, and throw into tight windows, which he doesn't do well at all.

The Niners regressed across the board (until proven otherwise). I really can't see how the Cards improved, and their OL was supposed to show improvement and yet they seem worse than ever.

 

[Mick063]

Sour grapes from the division's potential new doormat. That is how I perceive this thread.

Seahawk offense will likely struggle early due to offensive line. Worst case, the wheels completely fall off the offensive cart if Lynch is not Lynch.

But the defense?

For cripes sake. This will be the best Seattle defense ever. With or without Chancellor (and I personally think Kam is Seattle's second best player to Lynch). The depth and talent of the front seven has never been better. KPL, Jordan Hill, and Marsh will have us forgetting all about departed (or soon to be departed) defensive players such as Irvin, Browner, and Maxwell.


The defense will be suffocating and the athletically loaded special teams will create enough field position to make for another legendary season.

 

[ClutchDJ]

I did a general over view, but let's look at how the Seahawks match up:

Against STL: their DL matches up well against our OL, yet we still manage to run on them. Wilson rarely gets time to pass and their DL bottles him up pretty well. These are usually ugly games, but Fisher knows he's outclassed in talent so he resorts to weird ST trick plays that he doesn't do against anyone else. Their offense always struggles very badly against our defense.

ARI: we run well against them too. Look at how we played last year, and two years ago: they have problems scoring on our defense. The last time we played Palmer, he threw 4 INTs to us....so saying Palmer is going to be back isn't a good thing in this matchup. We also owned the Cards last year in pretty much every phase. Our DL will match up well against their banged up and suspended OL.

SF: They lost their DC, All Pro MLB, his solid backup, one of the best pass rushers in the league, a good DE, gee....did I miss anyone ? It's hard to see their defense keeping at it's peak. Even though their defense is top notch (or was), they can't keep us from scoring at home. Last year we owned them. On offense we manage to contain Kap pretty well and make him go to his 2nd and 3rd reads which he doesn't excel yet, and throw into tight windows, which he doesn't do well at all.

The Niners regressed across the board (until proven otherwise). I really can't see how the Cards improved, and their OL was supposed to show improvement and yet they seem worse than ever.

By the time we play you guys, Iupati & Massie won't be injured/suspended.

And no, not really at the last part. Jared Veldheer alone makes our OL > 2013 OL(the one that was apart of the win in Seattle). With Iupati & Massie out for now, we pretty much have the same OL as last year, except Jonathan Cooper(our first round draft pick in 2013, who suffered a serious leg injury that year) has finally been 100% healthy & has been doing very good in preseason. So I would say our current OL(not even counting Iupati & Massie) > last year's & 2013.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

With the four best defenses in the league.

And the four quality QB's.

And the ground games,......and WR's,......

......I think this is going to be a VERY interesting season.

I'm not counting ANYONE out.

Just sayin'.

I'd count San Francisco out because you can't just lose all that talent on defense and Harbaugh and think everything is just fine. And the Rams because until Fisher is gone they'll be the Rams. And Foles, enough said.

The team that will be dangerous is Arizona as long as Palmer can stand and Arians is the coach (he's kind of like the anti Pete offensively much like old AFC with high risk but big payoff deep passing).