The Russ wants out theory

[LTH]

That GIF of Wilson on the sideline when he was hurt and that facial expression when a play was called that he knew wasnt going to work kind of says it all to me. I think there's a lot of that going on and has been going on for years. I also think Russ is pretty much fed up with it and really is in a 'screw it' frame of mind. He's in a 'Damned if I do, damned if I dont' situation. He's put lipstick on a pig for such a long time with the play calling and game day coaching thats it was commonplace and we took it for granted. This season the pig isnt having any of it. Bottom line is Russ is trying to make to much happen with the odds stacked against him and its just not working out for the first time.

All this is great. but... if that were the case, what about my scenario about Russ going to Carroll and saying, my friend and coach we have been working together for 10 years, I just really feel it's time for me to move on I really don't want to be here please trade me... if that happened last off-season Carroll would have traded him to Chicago...

This to me is a really legitimate scenario. I really believe Carroll would move on if Russ said that's what he wanted... I mean you can stick as much lip stick on a pig as you want to... But if Russ was really that unhappy thats all he would have to do...

LTH

 

[pittpnthrs]

That GIF of Wilson on the sideline when he was hurt and that facial expression when a play was called that he knew wasnt going to work kind of says it all to me. I think there's a lot of that going on and has been going on for years. I also think Russ is pretty much fed up with it and really is in a 'screw it' frame of mind. He's in a 'Damned if I do, damned if I dont' situation. He's put lipstick on a pig for such a long time with the play calling and game day coaching thats it was commonplace and we took it for granted. This season the pig isnt having any of it. Bottom line is Russ is trying to make to much happen with the odds stacked against him and its just not working out for the first time.

All this is great. but... if that were the case, what about my scenario about Russ going to Carroll and saying, my friend and coach we have been working together for 10 years, I just really feel it's time for me to move on I really don't want to be here please trade me... if that happened last off-season Carroll would have traded him to Chicago...

This to me is a really legitimate scenario. I really believe Carroll would move on if Russ said that's what he wanted... I mean you can stick as much lip stick on a pig as you want to... But if Russ was really that unhappy thats all he would have to do...

LTH

I dont know. Maybe. I'm not sure Pete would be a willing participant in trading his franchise QB away though even if he was asking since he's under contract. It almost seems to me that each one of them are waiting to see what the other is going to do first. Russ waiting to see if Pete plans to step down anytime soon and Pete waiting to see if Russ causes more waves during the season or off season or if he's really on board and decides to buy in again. Either way, I expect more drama in the near future and one of them making a decision. The relationship doesnt seem healthy anymore. Toxic actually. Its a fans choice as to who needs to go and thats what divides us all sometimes.

 

[evergreen]

I think this conversation is happening in a time warp. Right now and for over a year Russ is not the same. He’s been figured out by most teams now. He wasn’t consistently elite and clutch before the injury. Sure he had good numbers but you saw the results. You’ve all seen them since the Az game last year. He’s getting older and not getting faster or quicker. He’s also not getting taller. He is missing plays, reads, and other basic qb stuff. Maybe he always did and just made up for it with great athleticism. I don’t think he would “throw “games to be traded. He’s got class and character. What he doesn’t have is his mojo. It’s been mostly gone for over a year. But we got nine great years out of him. Time to cut bait unfortunately.

 

[LTH]

That GIF of Wilson on the sideline when he was hurt and that facial expression when a play was called that he knew wasnt going to work kind of says it all to me. I think there's a lot of that going on and has been going on for years. I also think Russ is pretty much fed up with it and really is in a 'screw it' frame of mind. He's in a 'Damned if I do, damned if I dont' situation. He's put lipstick on a pig for such a long time with the play calling and game day coaching thats it was commonplace and we took it for granted. This season the pig isnt having any of it. Bottom line is Russ is trying to make to much happen with the odds stacked against him and its just not working out for the first time.

All this is great. but... if that were the case, what about my scenario about Russ going to Carroll and saying, my friend and coach we have been working together for 10 years, I just really feel it's time for me to move on I really don't want to be here please trade me... if that happened last off-season Carroll would have traded him to Chicago...

This to me is a really legitimate scenario. I really believe Carroll would move on if Russ said that's what he wanted... I mean you can stick as much lip stick on a pig as you want to... But if Russ was really that unhappy thats all he would have to do...

LTH

I dont know. Maybe. I'm not sure Pete would be a willing participant in trading his franchise QB away though even if he was asking since he's under contract. It almost seems to me that each one of them are waiting to see what the other is going to do first. Russ waiting to see if Pete plans to step down anytime soon and Pete waiting to see if Russ causes more waves during the season or off season or if he's really on board and decides to buy in again. Either way, I expect more drama in the near future and one of them making a decision. The relationship doesnt seem healthy anymore. Toxic actually. Its a fans choice as to who needs to go and thats what divides us all sometimes.

It definitely seems like there are some issues that need to be resolved. and yeah I'm sure that Pete does not want to lose his franchise QB, but If Russ is as unhappy as you guys seem to think, why would it be practical to keep a QB around who doesn't want to be here. That goes against basic logic. if he truly doesn't want to be here, why would he perform well? he wouldn't... Carroll knows this... Carroll might have many flaws, but he isn't stupid.

The kicker is Wilson got hurt, and OrangeGravy brings an excellent point about maybe that finger has some nerve damage that makes his finger numb and that's the cause of Wilsons accuracy issue. if thats the case maybe they are seeing if the feeling comes back... purely speculation but it makes since. Carroll says he is fine, and that might even be true, but if it wasn't true, does anybody think they would disclose that to the media and or the league? I highly doubt it.

So there are a lot of things that could be going on thats kind of why I'm taking a neutral stance on the issue... because I don't know...I just hope Wilson didn't screw himself by trying to come back to early that would be a real shame cause I like Wilson he is one of my favorite players. and even if he doesn't want to be here, I still wish him well...

I have come to the conclusion for myself that I just have to wait and see how it plays out...and I Hope that Carroll finds a way to work it out because I don't enjoy losing.


LTH

 

[RiverDog]

I think this conversation is happening in a time warp. Right now and for over a year Russ is not the same. He’s been figured out by most teams now. He wasn’t consistently elite and clutch before the injury. Sure he had good numbers but you saw the results. You’ve all seen them since the Az game last year. He’s getting older and not getting faster or quicker. He’s also not getting taller. He is missing plays, reads, and other basic qb stuff. Maybe he always did and just made up for it with great athleticism. I don’t think he would “throw “games to be traded. He’s got class and character. What he doesn’t have is his mojo. It’s been mostly gone for over a year. But we got nine great years out of him. Time to cut bait unfortunately.

Agreed.

On the surface, Russell's numbers don't look all that bad. He's completing nearly 65% of his passes, has a very good TD:INT ratio, and his passer rating is 102.5, all very close to his career numbers. But the stat that tells it all is his 3rd down completion percentage. It's 37%, worst in the league for QB's with 30+ attempts and the major contributing factor to our worst in the league time of possession. He hasn't played consistently well for some time now, since the first half of last season.

Although it's a much smaller sample size, Geno's 3rd down completion percentage is very good, at 68%, one of the best in the league, making it pretty hard to argue that Russell's woes are all due to our offensive line, scheme, running game, etc.

https://www.footballdb.com/statistics/n ... rt=passpct

 

[xray]

Wilson has lost the offense . Maybe the locker room as a whole too .

 

[olyfan63]

I think this conversation is happening in a time warp. Right now and for over a year Russ is not the same. He’s been figured out by most teams now. He wasn’t consistently elite and clutch before the injury. Sure he had good numbers but you saw the results. You’ve all seen them since the Az game last year. He’s getting older and not getting faster or quicker. He’s also not getting taller. He is missing plays, reads, and other basic qb stuff. Maybe he always did and just made up for it with great athleticism. I don’t think he would “throw “games to be traded. He’s got class and character. What he doesn’t have is his mojo. It’s been mostly gone for over a year. But we got nine great years out of him. Time to cut bait unfortunately.

Agreed.

On the surface, Russell's numbers don't look all that bad. He's completing nearly 65% of his passes, has a very good TD:INT ratio, and his passer rating is 102.5, all very close to his career numbers. But the stat that tells it all is his 3rd down completion percentage. It's 37%, worst in the league for QB's with 30+ attempts and the major contributing factor to our worst in the league time of possession. He hasn't played consistently well for some time now, since the first half of last season.

Although it's a much smaller sample size, Geno's 3rd down completion percentage is very good, at 68%, one of the best in the league, making it pretty hard to argue that Russell's woes are all due to our offensive line, scheme, running game, etc.

https://www.footballdb.com/statistics/n ... rt=passpct

And it's a chorus. He's given us 9 great years but the rest of the league has figured out how to frustrate and confuse him, and especially on 3rd down. Russell is broken and I have no idea if he can regroup and fix himself to read defenses like a Brady or a Brees and extend his career. This is the test. Also, the whole bit about Russell playing into his 40s, right now looks like a bunch of wishful thinking rubbish. Kurt Warner showed us in a video breakdown from the playoff loss to the Rams that the O-Line isn't even the primary problem, it's Russell not reading where to go with the ball, failing to take the open layup, failing to take what the defense is giving, failing to move the chains, and a resulting epidemic of 3-and-outs.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Things are probably more nuanced.

Is Russ doing everything in his power to win right now?

Likely not. There is a difference between throwing in the towel and playing out the string.

I think he is playing out the string.

Could he put another 10-15+ hours per week in to turn this team around? Maybe. Would it be worth it? Likely not.

Russ is pretty smart but I think he has a high enough ego he doesn't want to be a loser or be identified as the reason for losing. The multiple levels of failure on his part probably bother him right now. We will probably see some uneven production because of it.

But being smart, Russ also knows that it is not in his best interest to be very good right now. As pointed out multiple times on this forum, the team can just franchise him - even if he refuses to re-sign. But if it is clearly not a fit, he might even get out early.

Would he tank just to get out of there? I doubt his ego would allow it.

But would he put in a lot less extra work, play out the string, and put himself in a circumstance to recover his legacy at another location? It sure seems possible.

If the 'separation is in the preparation' it sure seems like there is a lot less preparation lately. I doubt he has neglected his responsibilities, but it would not shock me if he was putting in a lot less extra time & effort right now.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I think this conversation is happening in a time warp. Right now and for over a year Russ is not the same. He’s been figured out by most teams now. He wasn’t consistently elite and clutch before the injury. Sure he had good numbers but you saw the results. You’ve all seen them since the Az game last year. He’s getting older and not getting faster or quicker. He’s also not getting taller. He is missing plays, reads, and other basic qb stuff. Maybe he always did and just made up for it with great athleticism. I don’t think he would “throw “games to be traded. He’s got class and character. What he doesn’t have is his mojo. It’s been mostly gone for over a year. But we got nine great years out of him. Time to cut bait unfortunately.

Agreed.

On the surface, Russell's numbers don't look all that bad. He's completing nearly 65% of his passes, has a very good TD:INT ratio, and his passer rating is 102.5, all very close to his career numbers. But the stat that tells it all is his 3rd down completion percentage. It's 37%, worst in the league for QB's with 30+ attempts and the major contributing factor to our worst in the league time of possession. He hasn't played consistently well for some time now, since the first half of last season.

Although it's a much smaller sample size, Geno's 3rd down completion percentage is very good, at 68%, one of the best in the league, making it pretty hard to argue that Russell's woes are all due to our offensive line, scheme, running game, etc.

https://www.footballdb.com/statistics/n ... rt=passpct

The thing about Genos 3rd down conversion percentage is that it didnt equate to wins either. There's a ton more issues than that going on now. No doubt Russ has been poor, but he's way more capable of making plays than Geno and I think he's just trying too hard to make them right now. With the numerous issues on the team, its frustrating to all. The team is truly broken right now from the very top to the very bottom and there are no answers anymore. Drastic changes need to happen, not minor ones.

 

[RiverDog]

The thing about Genos 3rd down conversion percentage is that it didnt equate to wins either. There's a ton more issues than that going on now. No doubt Russ has been poor, but he's way more capable of making plays than Geno and I think he's just trying too hard to make them right now. With the numerous issues on the team, its frustrating to all. The team is truly broken right now from the very top to the very bottom and there are no answers anymore. Drastic changes need to happen, not minor ones.

I'm not trumpeting Geno's game and I agree that there are multiple issues with our team. I wasn't suggesting that we start Geno ahead of Russell, at least not if Russell is completely healthy. All I was doing was using Geno in a specific example, 3rd down conversations. There's enough of a difference to support the premise that poor play by our quarterback is the driving force behind our TOP woes.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Pretty damning evidence when Wilson’s camp says Wilson would be open to a trade to 4 teams.

And Wilson never fully explained or denied he had ever called for his camp to say that.

That should be enough “evidence” and “proof” that Wilson was unhappy here in Seattle.

 

[LTH]

I think this team desperately needs a win... It's been a rough season so far...


LTH

 

[HawkOG70’]

It's not a theory.

You don't tell your agent to release a public press statement through all the agent who** like Adam Schefter letting the world know you like Seattle, but if Seattle was so inclined to trade me?......................Here are the four teams I've been spending weeks thinking about writing down!!

Russ has a VERY high opinion of himself and his talent. IMO it's too high, but hard to tell someone who thinks he's on the same level as Rodgers and Brady that he doesn't deserve all the Super Bowls all the time.

So no, it's not a theory. It's real, and it'll happen sooner than later. Either facilitated by him, or by Pete/John, or by the organization.

Again, the only thing left to discuss is which scenario goes down. It's no longer "if."

It's all speculation at this point bro from what I can see.

You seem pretty convinced though..

I've thought about this a lot you know when you're giving your Lawn tractor a tune up and listening to sports radio in the man cave garage... LMAO!!!


I agree that Wilson has probably a to high opinion of him self

But my feeling is , and i have no idea if it is right, but that Wilson was dipping into what the media was saying at the time probably reading guys like Joe Fann... probably, not had a lot of communication with Carroll or the Seahawks at the time and I think he might have been feeling insecure about the Seahawks trading him. Meh... maybe, maybe not...

It's clear everybody is "reading between the lines" but I noticed for a long time you really feel strongly about your position on this subject and I'm wondering why you feel so strongly about this because I'm not seeing the, (what's the word I'm look for), the strength of conviction whatever that word is LMAO!!! I'm not saying you're wrong...I just want to better understand where you're coming from.

Thoughts?

You also keep saying the same things, especially the part where you say there's no indication that Russell wants out, or is unhappy.

Not sure how you can arrive to that conclusion when;

1. He literally floated the very notion last off season.

2. We've gone through three offensive coordinators in four years for the specific purpose of satiating Russell and his complaints about the offense. Including this past off season where we fired a coordinator who won 70% of his games with Russell, and hired a McVay "pass/offense first" flunkie.

3. We're 3-8 and Russell's having his worst season by far of his career.

What, you think this all spells Russell's super duper happy and won't complain again or demand to be traded come January or February if Allen says Pete's staying?

ONLY way Russell stays is if Pete's fired, and even then I'd put it at 50/50. Again, all we're predicting now is how it's going to go down.

Btw, why would you want more Pete and Russell? You're the most optimistic Hawk fan ever if you think this marriage is salvageable.

Exactly
The OC could be Mary Poppins for all Pete cares. As much as I can't blame Waldron the reality is that he's just another puppet for Pete and added another wrinkle of plays everyone already runs. Wilson is no longer a great RPO quarterback he needs a good running game and structured plays. The days of extending plays for Russ are over. Time waits for no one

 

[RiverDog]

I think this team desperately needs a win... It's been a rough season so far...


LTH

We desperately needed a win against the Packers 3 weeks ago. At this point, we're in a glorified preseason evaluating talent for the purge that will come in the offseason.

 

[PackerNation]

I here this a lot "Oooh Russ wants out of Seattle"... If he truly wanted out of Seattle all he would have to do is go to Carroll and say I don't want to be here... Please trade me.. and I'm 95% sure that Carroll would trade him. Why would Carroll want a QB that didn't want to be here?

I'm about 95% sure that if Carroll didn't believe in Wilson he would have traded him last off season. I am convinced that Carroll knows every flaw that Wilson has including any read issues...as he has been coaching Wilson for about 10 years.. It doesn't mean that Wilson won't be traded or it doesn't mean at some point that Wilson won't ask for a trade but at this point there is no reason to think either party wants out at least from my perspective.

LTH

I don't think Russ wants out at all. I am starting to wonder if others on the team want him out. Metcalf, Lockett and company. There appears to be grumblings around these guys not getting the ball enough. Honestly, with speedsters like that, look for 1v1 and throw contested passes over the top, they will win enough to start defenses playing Cover 2 over the top and opening up the rest of the offense.

I like Russ but I wonder if Seattle wouldn't look to move him and grab more of a pure passer. The trick would be to find someone better and that might be pretty tough to do.