This team fell apart after 2015.

[MontanaHawk05]

Offense wasn't the problem this season.

Whatever you say.

 

[hgwellz12]

Bevell, valiant effort...but you're not slick.

 

[hgwellz12]

what. dont understand what you wrote.

Obviously. I could have predicted that based on the OP.

That was heartwarming!

 

[olyfan63]

Trust me, you're barking up the wrong tree in the problems with the team. The defense isn't as good as the high water mark but only slightly so. The offense has changed for the worse.

Offense wasn't the problem this season. The main 3 people on IR Sherman Avril and Chancellor doomed us.

Our FG kicker losing 3 games (2-1/2 really) was the biggest factor. Wash, Atl, AZ.

Amazingly, our D was pretty good, well above league average, by the eye test, and by W/L records, even after losing Sherman, Kam, and Avril. Griffin became our #1 corner, Maxwell came on board, and we were serviceable. McDougald came came on board at SS and we could stop the run again, most of the time, and he made plays in the passing game. Frank Clark played his ass off and replaced a lot of Cliff Avril's production, plus some of our young DT/DE guys balled out, guys like Naz Jones, Dion Jordan, and such, not to mention Sheldon Richardson.

Our D was good enough to be a playoff team. Our D dominated #1 playoff seed Philly. Our D beat up on Dallas and Dak Prescott. Our D played AZ well enough to win. Our D played Jacksonville well enough to win. Our D did let us down vs. Washington Redskins, but that was on 3 missed FG's by our kicker. Our D played well enough to win vs. playoff team Atlanta, who advanced in 1st round playoffs, but our FG kicker couldn't get it into overtime.

When we also lost Wagner and KJ for a game or two, now THAT was rough--that version of our D was a problem. The Rams were going to beat us anyway with that version of our D, but the Offense handed them the game on a silver platter. Thankfully Bobby and KJ were able to come back the final couple games.

Our O stunk up the joint.
Our underperforming FG kicker lost us 2.5 games.
Our underperforming special teams... can't specifically pin down games, but too often they sucked.

It's the Offense. Our Defense will be great again next year with or without Kam, Sherman, or Avril. I expect we get Sherman back and he plays at a high level. No idea on Kam and Avril. We can only hope.

 

[adeltaY]

I believe the O and ST were definitely more culpable, but the D was 25th in points allowed after they lost Kam and Sherm, which averaged out to 13th at season's end. That's a pretty huge drop.

 

[olyfan63]

It fell apart when we lost Tate who could also return kicks to give us a short field.

It fell apart when we traded Unger for a TE we never would use, and in doing drove away the RB that brought us to 2 SB and made Wilson more of a weapon.

When we gave Harvin a huge contract that assured Tate would be gone and star defensive players would chafe.
And it fell apart the moment Bevel lost us a SB and there were no consequences.

These were all decisions that destroyed our offense.

Pretty much it in a nutshell.
We did eventually use Graham though.

 

[irfuben32]

It fell apart when we lost Tate who could also return kicks to give us a short field.

It fell apart when we traded Unger for a TE we never would use, and in doing drove away the RB that brought us to 2 SB and made Wilson more of a weapon.

When we gave Harvin a huge contract that assured Tate would be gone and star defensive players would chafe.
And it fell apart the moment Bevel lost us a SB and there were no consequences.

These were all decisions that destroyed our offense.

Preach!

I couldn't agree more with every single point

 

[scutterhawk]

The answer is obvious, and it's not "the injured" side of the ball either.

Offense, and special teams lost us this season.

Seattle spends more $$ on D than O. The panthers game they gave up 1st half 31-0? That's not acceptable when everyone on D is playing.

We didn't even play the Panthers this year. Are you seriously digging back to last season to make your point when we have all that futility on offense this season?

Offense wasn't the problem this season. The main 3 people on IR Sherman Avril and Chancellor doomed us.

Pretty simple really....When we lose it's because of the Offense, When we WIN we can thank the Defense.
Everyone likes to parrot >"Defense wins Championships", so that's why the majority of the $ is on the Defensive side of the ball....Kickers are almost an afterthought.
Most the blame is on Russell Wilson for "NOT stepping up into the Pocket" (even when the "Pocket" ISN'T THERE), he should just "Clime" it...He's "hanging onto the ball too long"...He's."Quitting on a play too quickly" (He should just trust that the O-Line will protect him from yet ANOTHER injury(2016)....Tom Cable should Coach him up on how to lead block for his RB, because his High Dollar O-Line sure as hell ain't capable of doing it.
3 very makeable (crappy)Kicks away from making it into the playoffs....But it ain't the kickers fault.
SB-49 Defense was playing with INJURIES, so the LOSS wasn't on them....See above ^
OR, you could just trust that Deviations, efficiency stats & such to explain the whole thing away.

 

[fenderbender123]

I agree.

The 2013 defense should be the standard. If Pete can build a defense that plays that well once, he should be able to do it again, or at least come somewhat close.

We still have the same core personnel, and this year the team's defensive line was (supposedly) as talented and deep as in 2013. Yet the results were 1,000+ more yards given up, 100+ more points given up, and 14 less turnovers in 2017 compared to 2013. That is WAY too big of a difference. There is no way the front office committed that much in resources to lock up key players and expected the performance to drop that much. No way in hell.

Richard Sherman is rarely in position to intercept passes. Kam is rarely in position to lay bone-crushing hits. We seem to have to rely on blitzes to get any sort of pressure on the opposing QB (compare that to 2013 where we NEVER blitzed and still accumulated more sacks and pressures). From what I could see, the players just seem more out of position.

I don't like to blame injuries. KJ Wright and Brandon Browner missed a few games in 2013, we had backups come in and there was little to no dropoff. And the players that did get injured this year were already underperforming anyway. And if age is the factor with injuries, then why did we lock these guys up with contracts?

We can't blame the offense, because statistically they really weren't much better in 2013. I don't believe in blaming the offense and things like time of possession anyway because I've watched enough football to know that a good defense can go out there on short fields or for a couple extra possessions a game and still make stops, force 3 and outs, etc....

And what about the schedule we played in 2013? All the backup QBs, right? Well, our D still turned in as good of a performance against good offenses that year (Saints twice, Denver in the SB...even San Fran had a reasonably good offense). In fact, they played their best defense against those good offenses. So I'm not going to allow this argument either.

Whether it's Kris Richard, the players, or both....let's get back to that 2013 level defense. If you can do it once, you can do it again. It's what this team needs desperately. If our defense performed at the 2013 level, we'd be like 14-2 or 15-1. The defense needs to carry the team and mitigate our offensive struggles....much like what happened in 2013.



TLDR - our defense needs to go from being good to being the BEST in the league again.

 

[mrt144]

I agree.

The 2013 defense should be the standard. If Pete can build a defense that plays that well once, he should be able to do it again, or at least come somewhat close.

We still have the same core personnel, and this year the team's defensive line was (supposedly) as talented and deep as in 2013. Yet the results were 1,000+ more yards given up, 100+ more points given up, and 14 less turnovers in 2017 compared to 2013. That is WAY too big of a difference. There is no way the front office committed that much in resources to lock up key players and expected the performance to drop that much. No way in hell.

Richard Sherman is rarely in position to intercept passes. Kam is rarely in position to lay bone-crushing hits. We seem to have to rely on blitzes to get any sort of pressure on the opposing QB (compare that to 2013 where we NEVER blitzed and still accumulated more sacks and pressures). From what I could see, the players just seem more out of position.

I don't like to blame injuries. KJ Wright and Brandon Browner missed a few games in 2013, we had backups come in and there was little to no dropoff. And the players that did get injured this year were already underperforming anyway. And if age is the factor with injuries, then why did we lock these guys up with contracts?

We can't blame the offense, because statistically they really weren't much better in 2013. I don't believe in blaming the offense and things like time of possession anyway because I've watched enough football to know that a good defense can go out there on short fields or for a couple extra possessions a game and still make stops, force 3 and outs, etc....

And what about the schedule we played in 2013? All the backup QBs, right? Well, our D still turned in as good of a performance against good offenses that year (Saints twice, Denver in the SB...even San Fran had a reasonably good offense). In fact, they played their best defense against those good offenses. So I'm not going to allow this argument either.

Whether it's Kris Richard, the players, or both....let's get back to that 2013 level defense. If you can do it once, you can do it again. It's what this team needs desperately. If our defense performed at the 2013 level, we'd be like 14-2 or 15-1. The defense needs to carry the team and mitigate our offensive struggles....much like what happened in 2013.

Historically great defenses are the high water mark, not the standard, categorically by being historic.

 

[fenderbender123]

Historically great defenses are the high water mark, not the standard, categorically by being historic.

That's why I said at least come somewhat close. Like in 2014 when it wasn't quite as good, but still #1 in the NFL...and we went to the Super Bowl and damn near won it. That's the level we need to be at.

 

[adeltaY]

I'm not sure I believe we can create a defense close to that good again.

 

[MD5eahawks]

I'm not sure I believe we can create a defense close to that good again.

We don't need to. Just fix the offense and the balance will play out fine.

 

[chris98251]

Using Shermans lack of Picks and Kams lack of big hits isn't taking a lot into consideration, QB's have to throw at Sherman for him to get picks, secondly if he had a Achilles injury his back peddle and break forward to get a ball just was not there. Kams reputation has spoken for him, nobody is willingly going to run headlong into a 18 wheeler on the freeway, Kam's presence on the field is a no fly zone for many types of routes by players. If you watched teams they challenged McDougald in that space later in the season, players were willing to go there again and look for the ball instead of Kam.

 

[scutterhawk]

I'm not sure I believe we can create a defense close to that good again.

We don't need to. Just fix the offense and the balance will play out fine.

Not buying that.... If you were a boxer, you wouldn't get into the ring with one hand tied to your side.
We no longer have Marshawn Lynch, or anyone like him to help Wilson punch Defenses in the mouth, hell, we didn't even have a bottom of the League Run Game this season.
When Pete's Seahawks stomped the shit out of the Bronco's in 48, they learned a valuable lesson about trying to get by with a so-so Defense, and two years later, they came back with vast improvement to their Defense, which proves that you need BOTH Offense & Defense if you expect to run with the big dogs.
This is a "Copycat" League, and Coaches all way around have been paying close attention to Petes dominant Defensive success.
It Takes all phases, Offense, Defense & Special Teams working TOGETHER.

 

[mrt144]

I'm not sure I believe we can create a defense close to that good again.

We don't need to. Just fix the offense and the balance will play out fine.

Not buying that.... If you were a boxer, you wouldn't get into the ring with one hand tied to your side.
We no longer have Marshawn Lynch, or anyone like him to help Wilson punch Defenses in the mouth, hell, we didn't even have a bottom of the League Run Game this season.
When Pete's Seahawks stomped the shit out of the Bronco's in 48, they learned a valuable lesson about trying to get by with a so-so Defense, and two years later, they came back with vast improvement to their Defense, which proves that you need BOTH Offense & Defense if you expect to run with the big dogs.
This is a "Copycat" League, and Coaches all way around have been paying close attention to Petes dominant Defensive success.
It Takes all phases, Offense, Defense & Special Teams working TOGETHER.

And one of the lessons from the Broncos is a defense alone isnt enough even if there is no perceptual or qualatative change between a broken necked giraffe and a lesser ape named Trevor. Its fascinating to think the Hawks could be in the Broncos shoes current if not for some obvious talent on offense. Imagine .net if that were the case. :shock:

 

[chris98251]

I'm not sure I believe we can create a defense close to that good again.

We don't need to. Just fix the offense and the balance will play out fine.

Not buying that.... If you were a boxer, you wouldn't get into the ring with one hand tied to your side.
We no longer have Marshawn Lynch, or anyone like him to help Wilson punch Defenses in the mouth, hell, we didn't even have a bottom of the League Run Game this season.
When Pete's Seahawks stomped the shit out of the Bronco's in 48, they learned a valuable lesson about trying to get by with a so-so Defense, and two years later, they came back with vast improvement to their Defense, which proves that you need BOTH Offense & Defense if you expect to run with the big dogs.
This is a "Copycat" League, and Coaches all way around have been paying close attention to Petes dominant Defensive success.
It Takes all phases, Offense, Defense & Special Teams working TOGETHER.

And one of the lessons from the Broncos is a defense alone isnt enough even if there is no perceptual or qualatative change between a broken necked giraffe and a lesser ape named Trevor. Its fascinating to think the Hawks could be in the Broncos shoes current if not for some obvious talent on offense. Imagine .net if that were the case. :shock:

Oh you mean like when Jim Mora and his Dirtbags were playing?

Or when Dan McGwire was our starter?

 

[mrt144]

We don't need to. Just fix the offense and the balance will play out fine.

Not buying that.... If you were a boxer, you wouldn't get into the ring with one hand tied to your side.
We no longer have Marshawn Lynch, or anyone like him to help Wilson punch Defenses in the mouth, hell, we didn't even have a bottom of the League Run Game this season.
When Pete's Seahawks stomped the shit out of the Bronco's in 48, they learned a valuable lesson about trying to get by with a so-so Defense, and two years later, they came back with vast improvement to their Defense, which proves that you need BOTH Offense & Defense if you expect to run with the big dogs.
This is a "Copycat" League, and Coaches all way around have been paying close attention to Petes dominant Defensive success.
It Takes all phases, Offense, Defense & Special Teams working TOGETHER.

And one of the lessons from the Broncos is a defense alone isnt enough even if there is no perceptual or qualatative change between a broken necked giraffe and a lesser ape named Trevor. Its fascinating to think the Hawks could be in the Broncos shoes current if not for some obvious talent on offense. Imagine .net if that were the case. :shock:

Oh you mean like when Jim Mora and his Dirtbags were playing?

Or when Dan McGwire was our starter?

But with more desperation cause we've tasted the glory.

 

[semiahmoo]

Bingo. Lynch "punched defenses in the mouth" as was said earlier.

We haven't had that for a while and our weak offense was more fully exposed which required our D to be on the field for longer stretches (even as they get older) which makes the whole team a crap sandwich...

 

[getnasty]

When your quarterback is making 400k your able to have great depth and able to pay for an offensive line. That's not the case anymore.