This team fell apart after 2015.

[cymatica]

It fell apart when we lost Tate who could also return kicks to give us a short field.

It fell apart when we traded Unger for a TE we never would use, and in doing drove away the RB that brought us to 2 SB and made Wilson more of a weapon.

When we gave Harvin a huge contract that assured Tate would be gone and star defensive players would chafe.
And it fell apart the moment Bevel lost us a SB and there were no consequences.

These were all decisions that destroyed our offense.

Pete needs this posted on his wall. I think Tate was the biggest mistake. Traded toughness for finess(Harvin)

 

[getnasty]

It fell apart when we lost Tate who could also return kicks to give us a short field.

It fell apart when we traded Unger for a TE we never would use, and in doing drove away the RB that brought us to 2 SB and made Wilson more of a weapon.

When we gave Harvin a huge contract that assured Tate would be gone and star defensive players would chafe.
And it fell apart the moment Bevel lost us a SB and there were no consequences.

These were all decisions that destroyed our offense.

Pete needs this posted on his wall. I think Tate was the biggest mistake. Traded toughness for finess(Harvin)

I'm not sure Tate would have been back anyways with the whole Russell Wilson wife thing.

 

[IndyHawk]

Well Wilson threw a pick six and another pick that had the Panthers at our 20 or so early in that game so you can't put 31-0 solely on the defense.

If you think the offense wasnt by and far the main problem this year idk what to say man.

:ditto:

 

[original poster]

Whether it's Kris Richard, the players, or both....let's get back to that 2013 level defense. If you can do it once, you can do it again. It's what this team needs desperately. If our defense performed at the 2013 level, we'd be like 14-2 or 15-1. The defense needs to carry the team and mitigate our offensive struggles....much like what happened in 2013.

In sentiment, I agree that it 'can' be done again. But they're certainly against it, they don't have the draft position (or capital), talent evaluation is league average or above, as opposed to out of this world as well.

ALL those stars were on rookie contracts.

 

[MD5eahawks]

I'm not sure I believe we can create a defense close to that good again.

We don't need to. Just fix the offense and the balance will play out fine.

Not buying that.... If you were a boxer, you wouldn't get into the ring with one hand tied to your side.
We no longer have Marshawn Lynch, or anyone like him to help Wilson punch Defenses in the mouth, hell, we didn't even have a bottom of the League Run Game this season.
When Pete's Seahawks stomped the shit out of the Bronco's in 48, they learned a valuable lesson about trying to get by with a so-so Defense, and two years later, they came back with vast improvement to their Defense, which proves that you need BOTH Offense & Defense if you expect to run with the big dogs.
This is a "Copycat" League, and Coaches all way around have been paying close attention to Petes dominant Defensive success.
It Takes all phases, Offense, Defense & Special Teams working TOGETHER.

That’s where ‘fix the offense’ comes in. Maybe untie that other hand and let the boxer use two hands instead of one bruised and cut hand.

 

[jammerhawk]

I disagree the premise of this thread, that the D is really the culprit.

It's the O, and most specifically the OLine that's the problem. It. Is the engine that runs the team and the biggest collective unit on the team with 5 players and it has been simply awful since 2015. This despite injections of talent, the choices of it's supposed guru coach. The team initially went young but the unit's coaches have totally failed to achieve their objectives, now they can't run block and are weak at pass blocking, This experiment failed and they have now been forced to pay for talent at significant opportunity cost. Nothing works as a result and it's on the coaching, who also is responsible as "run game coordinator" for the sad state of the running game. There talent was added and there was also a total failure to achieve any stated objective. In life in almost any other area of enterprise that usually results in the parties responsible losing their job. Here under Coach Pete, the always compete mantra doesn't apply to his coaches who aren't competing.

To my eyes the O was a weak joke this season and has been getting weaker and weaker since XLIX. The disaster that was 'the play' that robbed the team of it's heart and a 2nd consecutive Lombardi Trophy was not rewarded with any coaching consequence as the team didn't run in the situation b/c the OLine could not be relied upon for short yardage in critical situations even thought the situation depended upon them. As a result that stupid play was called resulting in a turnover. The response was to blame the players when the coaching was the culprit and the 'always compete' mantra which had got the team to the top was seen by the participants as not genuine. BOTH BEVELL AND CABLE SHOULD HAVE BEEN GONE. That is now very clear after two full ensuing seasons.

The offense has been figured out. The team can't run, the OC is fresh out of ideas, the OLine is a joke, always promises but no cake. Neither offensive coach competes but both are kept but the XLVIII and XLIX running backs coach is canned with the result things got appreciably worse.The OLine has always been borderline awful but was rescued because the team had a generational talent at RB, now they don't and the running game is completely broken. one coach wears it totally and that is Coach Cable, but Coach Bevell is close behind. The team needs new directions, new O leadership. Always compete? Whatever! :177692:

In terms of D the coaches need to work on 3rd down pass D because it is becoming tiresome o watch any opponent regularly convert hard fought 3rd and long situations into 1st downs. In that regard Richard is not better than his predecessors and it is his biggest weakness. I don't believe he is as good a coach as Bradley and Bradley was never as good as Quinn.

There is little doubt the team is also clearly weaker on ST. It is clear there the kicking game needs a rebuild. They do have speed and some talented ST players several of whom were hurt this season. ST are now not a source of reliability or team strength and that is also an area where the focus needs to be in terms of assessing the competitiveness of the coaching.

Coaching changes need to be made 'ALWAYS COMPETE!' needs to apply to all parts of the team. In that respect the FO is not doing things better than they have ever done before.

If the team makes any coaching changes, then it is Coach Cable that needs to be gone. If the team also rids itself of Richard for Bradley doing so ridding itself of Cable, I'm in!

That said! Bevell would be on a short leash.

 

[JGreen79]

All I'm saying is that with the 2015 schedule, we dominated some teams and the D wasn't playing that much.

26-0 Bears
20-3 49ers
38-7 Vikings
35-6 Ravens
36-6 Zona.

During this Season the D wasn't gassed, but they gave up 31-0 to the Panthers 1st half. None of the major Defensive players for Seattle got injured in 2015. We still had Lynch and Bevell and still won the superbowl in 2013. I'm saying that if we had Quinn retained as DC, 2015+ Seahawks would had done better, maybe would had gone to the Superbowl that year also.

Here are some stats regarding those games. Do with them what you want. The D wasn't the problem in the Panther game.

Bears - In the first half Seattle had 5 drives.
Drive 1 - 3 plays, 6 yards, punt.
Drive 2 - 4 plays, 6 yards, FG.
Drive 3 - 5 plays, 21 yards, punt.
Drive 4 - 3 plays, 4 yards, punt.
Drive 5 - 12 plays, 77 yards, FG (This was the last 2:37 of the half in 2 minute offense)
+ The defense never let the Bears past the 50 totaling six 3 and outs all game.

49ers - In the first half Seattle had 5 drives.
Drive 1 - 12 plays, 61 yards, TD.
Drive 2 - 8 plays, 35 yards, Punt.
Drive 3 - 6 plays, 35 yards, FG.
Drive 4 - 5 plays, 90 yards, TD.
Drive 5 - 6 plays, 53 yards, INT.
+ The defense only let the 49ers past the 50 twice(One punt, One FG) and totaled seven 3 and outs all game.

Vikings - In the first half Seattle had 5 drives.
Drive 1 - 4 plays, 19 yards, Fumb.
Drive 2 - 12 plays, 81 yards, TD.
Drive 3 - 4 plays, 27 yards, Punt.
Drive 4 - 13 plays, 98 yards, TD.
Drive 5 - 1 plays, 20 yards, TD.
+ The defense only let the Vikings past the 50 once(punt) totaling three 3 and outs.

Ravens - In the first half Seattle had 5 drives.
Drive 1 - 11 plays, 80 yards, TD.
Drive 2 - 3 plays, 0 yards, Punt.
Drive 3 - 10 plays, 73 yards, Fumb.
Drive 4 - 8 plays, 31 yards, Punt.
Drive 5 - 2 plays, 14 yards, TD.
+ The defense only let the Ravens past the 50 twice (FG, Downs) Ravens other FG came when they started the drive at the Sea 42, Totaling one three and out, and two 2 play turnovers.

Cards - In the first half Seattle had 6 drives.
Drive 1 - 12 plays, 88 yards, TD.
Drive 2 - 4 plays, 7 yards, FG.
Drive 3 - 11 plays, 80 yards, TD.
Drive 4 - 1 play, 8 yards, TD.
Drive 5 - 3 plays, 27 yards, TD.
Drive 6 - 8 plays, 29 yards, FG Miss.
+ The defense allowed the Cardials to get past the 50 3 three times(TD, FG Miss, INT) Totaling three 3 and outs and 3 INT.

Panthers - In the first half Seattle had 6 drives.
Drive 1 - 2 plays, -3 yards, INT.
Drive 2 - 5 plays, 28 yards, Punt.
Drive 3 - 1 plays, 0 yards, INT.
Drive 4 - 3 plays, -8 yards, Punt.
Drive 5 - 12 plays, 66 yards, Downs.
Drive 6 - 5 plays, 30 yards, FG miss.
+The defense allowed the Panthers past the 50 3 times (TD,TD,TD). At the time of the last TD the score was 31-0. Seattle's offense had 4 drives and ran 11 plays for 17 yards by that point in the game. (6:26 to go in the 2nd qtr.) Another note... After Seattle's fourth drive the Defense forced a 3 and out.

 

[fenderbender123]

Using Shermans lack of Picks and Kams lack of big hits isn't taking a lot into consideration, QB's have to throw at Sherman for him to get picks, secondly if he had a Achilles injury his back peddle and break forward to get a ball just was not there. Kams reputation has spoken for him, nobody is willingly going to run headlong into a 18 wheeler on the freeway, Kam's presence on the field is a no fly zone for many types of routes by players. If you watched teams they challenged McDougald in that space later in the season, players were willing to go there again and look for the ball instead of Kam.

So if the league has adjusted to Kam's presence, why do we keep him? Those big hits are more valuable than forcing opposing offenses to scheme around him.

Same with Sherman. Those interceptions are more valuable.

IMO, we should just keep replacing players. Build through the draft. Get young, fresh, healthy bodies mixed with hungry minds. Guys that haven't won a SB. Cheap guys. Then use the excess money to fill in gaps and build depth and sign good pass rushers. Guys that opposing teams don't know how to beat.

 

[Seanhawk]

When your quarterback is making 400k your able to have great depth and able to pay for an offensive line. That's not the case anymore.

It can't all be pinned on Russell Wilson's expanding contract. In 2013, Richard Sherman, Bobby Wagner, and Earl Thomas were all playing on their rookie deals.

 

[chris98251]

Using Shermans lack of Picks and Kams lack of big hits isn't taking a lot into consideration, QB's have to throw at Sherman for him to get picks, secondly if he had a Achilles injury his back peddle and break forward to get a ball just was not there. Kams reputation has spoken for him, nobody is willingly going to run headlong into a 18 wheeler on the freeway, Kam's presence on the field is a no fly zone for many types of routes by players. If you watched teams they challenged McDougald in that space later in the season, players were willing to go there again and look for the ball instead of Kam.

So if the league has adjusted to Kam's presence, why do we keep him? Those big hits are more valuable than forcing opposing offenses to scheme around him.

Same with Sherman. Those interceptions are more valuable.

IMO, we should just keep replacing players. Build through the draft. Get young, fresh, healthy bodies mixed with hungry minds. Guys that haven't won a SB. Cheap guys. Then use the excess money to fill in gaps and build depth and sign good pass rushers. Guys that opposing teams don't know how to beat.

You state that and say get rid of Sherm and Kam, they can't beat them, it pushes plays to other parts of the field making a offense less unpredictable. Which is it? You state one thing and then go 180 degrees the opposite direction from what you said.

As far as Kam and Sherm and Earl going forward, Get Sherm healthy, have him pass his physical and then trade him, same with Earl he is in his last year, make a trade to get value back, Kam is pretty much done less a miracle happens, we may eat his salary or possibly get a settlement worked out, all the more reason to unload other salaries, same with Avril.

There is your money, we will probably regress on defense as the replacements learn, but now have flexibility, if you really want more room you need to find a new QB as well in the draft that can step in for Wilson, that is the least likely thing to happen however.

Painful as it would be in parting with these guys it forces change, it forces us to delve into assessing players better, aside from a major correction were all waiting for on the offensive side of the ball that has yet to happen with two of the coaching staff that I think would ease the pain of the defensive side of the ball.