Tom Brady PC

[vonstout]

I hope you guys are his adamant when the investigation turns out empty and that there is no proof the Patriots went and deflated the football after the referees inspected them. Even if Brady asks the ball boys to deflate it to 10.0 PSI so what? If the referees inspect it and its too low, they'll inflate it (or they should) to a legal level. It's what happened AFTER the balls were inspected that concerns me the most. If the referees 100% guarantee the balls were in legal range and they somehow managed to drop beyond a reasonable amount due to the weather, then I'll be skeptical. Right now it's just a bunch of hearsay and washed up, angry players (and fans from a team that lost a Super Bowl 13 years ago but still can't get over it) looking for any excuse they can to discredit the Patriots

The weather cannot scientifically be responsible for balls at 12.5 psi dropping to 10.5 psi (if 2 psi difference is to be believed). This is a simple calculation done with Guy-Lussac's law and I did it in another thread. If the balls were filled and temperature stable at 72 degrees F, it would require them to be temperature stable at -13 F to make that difference. If it was 40 degrees F, it only drops the temperature 0.7 degrees.

If Brady was lying at his press conference he is a terrible liar. You're supposed to only answer enough to make it sound legitimate, not make a ton of statements which sound conflicting.

Yep. I'm right with you there brother. I'm waiting on the facts though especially concerning the real pressure level of the balls. I gotta head out, talk to you guys later

I'm not a scientist, but got this from another board. Any scientists in the crowd care to comment on this?

PV=nRT is the ideal gas law.
p=pressure In units of atmospheres.
v equals volume
n is number of moles or Advacados number times molecules
R is a gas constant
T is temperature in Kelvin.

For a football with air in it we can say the volume and the n and the R stays the same for the sake of the following.

So the question I am posing is how does P change with temperature.

Say the balls were inflated to 12 psi-so p =26.2 psi. 26.2=14.2(one atmosphere) +12.
and was done at 70 degrees fareinheit whitch equals 294 degrees kelvin.

The 26.2 psi equals 1.85 atmospheres which equals 26.2/14.2. One atmosphere pressure equals 14.2 psi.

Since we have so many constants it's basically a direct correlation between p and t.

So a 30 degree fareinheit change in temp equals 277 degrees kelvin.

There pressure when colder goes to 277/294 times 1.85 atmospheres which equals 10.5 psi.

It's why Aaron Rodgers wants a higher inflation. The nfl has been unfair to the packers

This gives the answer to your question

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/p ... story.html

 

[KiwiHawk]

So a 30 degree fareinheit change in temp equals 277 degrees kelvin.

Um, no.

A temperature of 30 degrees Farenheit may be 277 Kelvin, but keep in mind that the two temperature scales start at different places. The actual relationship between F and K is 1 F= 5/9 K. A change of 30 degrees Farenheit is therefore only a change of 16.67 degrees Kelvin, not 277.

 

[Our Man in Chicago]

Also: I'm guessing that D'Qwell didn't want to look like a snitch to the world.

 

[BillBelichick]

Are you guys talking about the Colts game balls? The ones being used in the first half by the Pats?

http://larrybrownsports.com/football/pa ... alf/253305

Equal representation for equally unproven rumors, guys!

 

[Seanhawk]

I respect your team, I respect the players, I respect the fans. But...

Come on, Seahawks fans...is this really how you want us to remember our 6th Super Bowl opponent? Just another team that got strung along by the media's anti-Patriots hype, not wanting to focus on the game?

Listen to your team..no matter what the outcome of the investigation, this entire situation is blown way, way out of proportion, and a lot of ill-informed people are taking rumors and getting carried away.

Soon enough the conversation will shift from "witchhunt with no facts" mode to "nothing came of it, but they still suck" mode.

Then again, maybe we should just let you guys stay preoccupied with this, and let Bill and Tom go back and focus on the game.

No official word has come out about anything, and the "facts" are changing by the minute.

Everything in this thread is either a rumor or an ill-informed opinion.

I know I'm in the "enemies" camp, but we've got to keep things in perspective here.

Still, gonna be a great game between two great teams, I'm really looking forward to it.

Just because people on here are preoccupied with it, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE IN THE SPORTS WORLD, doesn't mean the actual team has given it one thought. My comments, your comments, or any comments on this forum will have zero effect on either team's preparation or the outcome of the game.

 

[vonstout]

Like this is our fault? Your coach and QB just lied to your face. They have been called out by Madden, Brunell, Jerry Rice and the entire ESPN staff.

I feel like a beaten spouse getting a lecture from an abusive partner.

As I mentioned, you all getting caught up by the media-hype..."called out by Madden, Brunell, Jerry Rice..." etc is completely within your control.

Everyone you just mentioned and everyone on this forum is working with nothing more than rumors...100% rumors!

You go ahead and keep believing it's just rumor. If you believe the media is making it up that 11 footballs were 2 psi under the limit, you are delusional. This is the NFL's worst nightmare.

 

[KiwiHawk]

If the Patriots refuse to cooperate and name the person responsible, then the only option is to level the punishment at the entire team. Make the punishment sufficiently severe and the Patriots will quickly sort out who the guilty party is and turn him over to the NFL.

Say, for example, they can either come forward with the guilty party or forfeit the Super Bowl. I bet the mystery would be solved instantly.

 

[50yrpatsfan]

So a 30 degree fareinheit change in temp equals 277 degrees kelvin.

Um, no.

A temperature of 30 degrees Farenheit may be 277 Kelvin, but keep in mind that the two temperature scales start at different places. The actual relationship between F and K is 1 F= 5/9 K. A change of 30 degrees Farenheit is therefore only a change of 16.67 degrees Kelvin, not 277.

OK thanks.

 

[vonstout]

So a 30 degree fareinheit change in temp equals 277 degrees kelvin.

Um, no.

A temperature of 30 degrees Farenheit may be 277 Kelvin, but keep in mind that the two temperature scales start at different places. The actual relationship between F and K is 1 F= 5/9 K. A change of 30 degrees Farenheit is therefore only a change of 16.67 degrees Kelvin, not 277.

Sorry. Your conversion is part of the equation for F to Celcius. kelvin: http://www.metric-conversions.org/tempe ... kelvin.htm

 

[NFSeahawks]

This is simply a case of becoming too big, too fast.

Say what you will but this hurts the Patriots.

 

[BillBelichick]

I respect your team, I respect the players, I respect the fans. But...

Come on, Seahawks fans...is this really how you want us to remember our 6th Super Bowl opponent? Just another team that got strung along by the media's anti-Patriots hype, not wanting to focus on the game?

Listen to your team..no matter what the outcome of the investigation, this entire situation is blown way, way out of proportion, and a lot of ill-informed people are taking rumors and getting carried away.

Soon enough the conversation will shift from "witchhunt with no facts" mode to "nothing came of it, but they still suck" mode.

Then again, maybe we should just let you guys stay preoccupied with this, and let Bill and Tom go back and focus on the game.

No official word has come out about anything, and the "facts" are changing by the minute.

Everything in this thread is either a rumor or an ill-informed opinion.

I know I'm in the "enemies" camp, but we've got to keep things in perspective here.

Still, gonna be a great game between two great teams, I'm really looking forward to it.

Just because people on here are preoccupied with it, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE IN THE SPORTS WORLD, doesn't mean the actual team has given it one thought. My comments, your comments, or any comments on this forum will have zero effect on either team's preparation or the outcome of the game.

I guess I was secretly hoping that two teams, united in excellence, would be able to focus on the game.

It does seem like your actual TEAM is letting themselves be dragged down.

I was hoping the "Voice of the 12th Man" forums would be a little less concerned with the rumors, though.

 

[Seanhawk]

Really? How is the team being dragged down? And again, I ask what does anything being said on here have to do with either team focusing on the game?

 

[NFSeahawks]

Did you watch Tom Brady's press conference and believe him? Because nobody else believed him. Nobody. Not even the guys who fall for it when they're told "gullible" isn't in the dictionary.

He's never given me reason not to believe him. But even IF he wants the balls deflated less than 12.5, and even IF the ball boys oblige, I want to know if the referees can guarantee they checked the balls the real way (with a gauge) and not some feel test, and THEN I want proof that it was brought back up to a legal specification and had to be tampered with to be brought back down to the level Brady wants them. Listen guys, you can throw out all these jokes, pontifications, "facts", assumptions, whatever, but you know you'd be right where I am right now saying you'll hold off until ALL THE FACTS come out and come out from the NFL.

That's why I asked if you'd seen that press conference, because he gave you a pretty good reason in it.

He states that he takes extreme care to carefully inspect all the balls pre-game and make sure they're perfect and that they are inflated to exactly 12.5 pounds, which is precisely the pressure he likes them because having perfect balls is so critical...

...and then five minutes later says that when he's on the field, he can't tell the difference between balls that are official pressure and ones that are two pounds lighter and had no idea if the balls were the same as the ones he'd inspected or not.

You don't see why people don't believe a single thing he's saying about this?

Did you see the press conference? I haven't seen Brady under that much pressure since SB 42. There was some pretty bad baiting going on in there. For God's sake, the first question was "When and how did you alter the footballs?" I mean come on. That press conference was a shark tank. Not asking for sympathy from anyone, but I've never seen Brady get questioned like that in a press conference. Felt like an interrogation. I'm sure anyone putting it under a microscope can find something he tripped over. On that note, I know I'm not going to convince anyone to hold off until the NFL makes an official statement and I won't change my mind until then either, so I'll let it go. Hopefully we can resume this conversation in a more objective manner when we get there.

He tripped up because he's guilty of altering the balls or asking someone to alter the balls.

 

[hawknation2015]

I guess I was secretly hoping that two teams, united in excellence, would be able to focus on the game.

It does seem like your actual TEAM is letting themselves be dragged down.

I was hoping the "Voice of the 12th Man" forums would be a little less concerned with the rumors, though.

You appear to be totally incapable of accepting responsibility, kind of like the real Bill Belichick.

:th2thumbs:

 

[BillBelichick]

I guess I was secretly hoping that two teams, united in excellence, would be able to focus on the game.

It does seem like your actual TEAM is letting themselves be dragged down.

I was hoping the "Voice of the 12th Man" forums would be a little less concerned with the rumors, though.

You appear to be totally incapable of accepting responsibility, kind of like the real Bill Belichick.

:th2thumbs:

Accept responsibility? For the facts that don't exist?

Will ANY member of this forum come forward and say "I am willing to withhold judgement until FACTS are presented"?

 

[Sarlacc83]

I hope you guys are his adamant when the investigation turns out empty and that there is no proof the Patriots went and deflated the football after the referees inspected them. Even if Brady asks the ball boys to deflate it to 10.0 PSI so what? If the referees inspect it and its too low, they'll inflate it (or they should) to a legal level. It's what happened AFTER the balls were inspected that concerns me the most. If the referees 100% guarantee the balls were in legal range and they somehow managed to drop beyond a reasonable amount due to the weather, then I'll be skeptical. Right now it's just a bunch of hearsay and washed up, angry players (and fans from a team that lost a Super Bowl 13 years ago but still can't get over it) looking for any excuse they can to discredit the Patriots

The weather cannot scientifically be responsible for balls at 12.5 psi dropping to 10.5 psi (if 2 psi difference is to be believed). This is a simple calculation done with Guy-Lussac's law and I did it in another thread. If the balls were filled and temperature stable at 72 degrees F, it would require them to be temperature stable at -13 F to make that difference. If it was 40 degrees F, it only drops the temperature 0.7 degrees.

If Brady was lying at his press conference he is a terrible liar. You're supposed to only answer enough to make it sound legitimate, not make a ton of statements which sound conflicting.

Yep. I'm right with you there brother. I'm waiting on the facts though especially concerning the real pressure level of the balls. I gotta head out, talk to you guys later

I'm not a scientist, but got this from another board. Any scientists in the crowd care to comment on this?

PV=nRT is the ideal gas law.
p=pressure In units of atmospheres.
v equals volume
n is number of moles or Advacados number times molecules
R is a gas constant
T is temperature in Kelvin.

For a football with air in it we can say the volume and the n and the R stays the same for the sake of the following.

So the question I am posing is how does P change with temperature.

Say the balls were inflated to 12 psi-so p =26.2 psi. 26.2=14.2(one atmosphere) +12.
and was done at 70 degrees fareinheit whitch equals 294 degrees kelvin.

The 26.2 psi equals 1.85 atmospheres which equals 26.2/14.2. One atmosphere pressure equals 14.2 psi.

Since we have so many constants it's basically a direct correlation between p and t.

So a 30 degree fareinheit change in temp equals 277 degrees kelvin.

There pressure when colder goes to 277/294 times 1.85 atmospheres which equals 10.5 psi.

It's why Aaron Rodgers wants a higher inflation. The nfl has been unfair to the packers

I didn't need to read any further when you didn’t catch that it's Avogadro's number.

 

[-The Glove-]

I guess I was secretly hoping that two teams, united in excellence, would be able to focus on the game.

It does seem like your actual TEAM is letting themselves be dragged down.

I was hoping the "Voice of the 12th Man" forums would be a little less concerned with the rumors, though.

You appear to be totally incapable of accepting responsibility, kind of like the real Bill Belichick.

:th2thumbs:

Accept responsibility? For the facts that don't exist?

Will ANY member of this forum come forward and say "I am willing to withhold judgement until FACTS are presented"?

11 out of 12 of the Patriots balls were deflated 2 psi... that's what we all know so far. How it came to be deflated by 2 psi's? Who knows. But it didn't happen naturally due to weather, that's for sure.

Also, Tom Brady explained that he is very particular about his footballs and inspects them before every game, ensuring they're at his recommended 12.5 psi level. Then he says he can't even tell the difference between a correctly inflated ball and one that's 2 psi's lower? And he doesn't even know who handles the footballs? Really? Your head is so far down in the sand, it's not even funny

 

[BillBelichick]

I guess I was secretly hoping that two teams, united in excellence, would be able to focus on the game.

It does seem like your actual TEAM is letting themselves be dragged down.

I was hoping the "Voice of the 12th Man" forums would be a little less concerned with the rumors, though.

You appear to be totally incapable of accepting responsibility, kind of like the real Bill Belichick.

:th2thumbs:

Accept responsibility? For the facts that don't exist?

Will ANY member of this forum come forward and say "I am willing to withhold judgement until FACTS are presented"?

11 out of 12 of the Patriots balls were deflated 2 psi... that's what we all know so far. How it came to be deflated by 2 psi's? Who knows. But it didn't happen naturally due to weather, that's for sure.

Also, Tom Brady explained that he is very particular about his footballs and inspects them before every game, ensuring they're at his recommended 12.5 psi level. Then he says he can't even tell the difference between a correctly inflated ball and one that's 2 psi's lower? And he doesn't even know who handles the footballs? Really? Your head is so far down in the sand, it's not even funny

No facts have been released. Nothing from the NFL. Nothing from the "investigation."

 

[homerun1970]

I respect your team, I respect the players, I respect the fans. But...

Come on, Seahawks fans...is this really how you want us to remember our 6th Super Bowl opponent? Just another team that got strung along by the media's anti-Patriots hype, not wanting to focus on the game?

Listen to your team..no matter what the outcome of the investigation, this entire situation is blown way, way out of proportion, and a lot of ill-informed people are taking rumors and getting carried away.

Soon enough the conversation will shift from "witchhunt with no facts" mode to "nothing came of it, but they still suck" mode.

Then again, maybe we should just let you guys stay preoccupied with this, and let Bill and Tom go back and focus on the game.

No official word has come out about anything, and the "facts" are changing by the minute.

Everything in this thread is either a rumor or an ill-informed opinion.

I know I'm in the "enemies" camp, but we've got to keep things in perspective here.

Still, gonna be a great game between two great teams, I'm really looking forward to it.

Just because people on here are preoccupied with it, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE IN THE SPORTS WORLD, doesn't mean the actual team has given it one thought. My comments, your comments, or any comments on this forum will have zero effect on either team's preparation or the outcome of the game.

I guess I was secretly hoping that two teams, united in excellence, would be able to focus on the game.

It does seem like your actual TEAM is letting themselves be dragged down.

I was hoping the "Voice of the 12th Man" forums would be a little less concerned with the rumors, though.

Really your going to lecture? Let's see as a fan of the Seattle Seahawks I was hoping that I would not have to wonder if my team was playing in a even game. It truly sucks to have to wonder if your team can come up with some inventive way to break the rules in this two week break. Most of the above is in jest but quit with the sanctimonious high road BS please. The Pats are not being victimized, air pressure doesnt drop on one sideline only, and as far as the credibility of your staff can you understand why people here arent jumping to take them at face value. History does repeat itself.

 

[Alexander]

Are you guys talking about the Colts game balls? The ones being used in the first half by the Pats?

http://larrybrownsports.com/football/pa ... alf/253305

Equal representation for equally unproven rumors, guys!

It's not clear how this is even relevant. Are you trying to say it didn't affect the outcome of the game? Nearly every member of this board would agree with you, including myself. But that misses the point entirely. Cheating is wrong, whether it changes the outcome or not.

There's a lot of dot connecting going on with regards to TB's and BB's involvement with and knowledge of the deflated footballs, but none of it is unreasonable given the facts that have been established. And facts have been established, whether you want to believe it or not. We know that 11/12 of the Patriots balls were severely under-inflated at halftime, despite passing pre-game inspection (which involves a rigorous pressure measurement), that the same was NOT true of the Colts balls, and that the magnitude of the pressure drop is far too large to be explained by the cold temperature. These things are well beyond the point of rumor, even if they haven't been confirmed (whatever that even means). If you disagree, you disagree, but you're not convincing anyone who isn't a blind Pats homer that facts haven't been established, and you can't blame people for connecting dots from there.