Tony Dungy comments on Michael Sam

[Scottemojo]

Tim Tebow was a far bigger distraction.

I agree.

 

[kearly]

Im not disputing Vick or Tebow or their circumstances. What I am pointing out is that Dungy publicly put his arm around Vick and was in contact with teams trying to help Vick find a home and he has said he would love to have Tebow on his team. Tebow asks for the attention as much as anyone. Taking his shirt off after practice, choosing NY over hometown Jags.

Simply disagree on Tebow and Vick. They were both totally different situations. Vick was a non-story after the Eagles signed him. Tebow was a much bigger media event than Sam, but didn't have the risk of a locker room nuclear disaster. I do think that Dungy's faith very likely played a factor in his Tebow fandom, but I would not say the same about his Sam comments. Why are those "Christian" comments on Sam when many other teams thought the same exact thing and are not devout Christians themselves?

Sam is not the first openly gay player in a major sport. Neither is Jason Collins. In 1990, there was a UK soccer player by the name Justin Fashanu who came out near the end of his career. Obviously, Europe is a lot more progressive on the topic of homosexuality than the US, so you would think his decision would have gone relatively smoothly.

But while the mainstream culture of Europe is very progressive, the sports culture there is vicious and reactionary. Anti-gay slurs are commonly chanted at soccer matches to insult opposing players, etc. Fashanu wasn't just the first openly gay player, he was also the first black player to earn a one million pound transfer fee. He was actually a pretty good player in the pros.

Unfortunately, he took a lot of abuse for his sexuality from fans, teammates, and even family, and it would eventually result in him taking his own life.

Distractions don't get any bigger than that. There has only been one other active UK soccer player to come out in the 2+ decades that followed.

Now, I do think that most people in the Rams locker room will probably be on their best behavior and I'm not saying that Sam is a disaster waiting to happen. But clearly the risk is there, and this has been underscored by numerous bigoted / homophobic tweets by NFL players over the past year, including the day Sam was drafted and kissed his boyfriend.

 

[SonicHawk]

Yeah, when I think 'progressive' I think European soccer.

Tim Tebow was and still is a bigger distraction than Sam. Sam is a late round pick who happens to be gay. Tim Tebow was an enormous 1st round superstar with the kind of attitude that most normal humans found obnoxious.

 

[kearly]

Yeah, when I think 'progressive' I think European soccer.

That is exactly my point. Whatever we think society is, the environment in a pro-sports locker room can be radically different. And we know it is in the NFL, based on testimonials from players, coaches and execs, as well as direct evidence from tweets from bigoted / homophobic players.

 

[Tical21]

I don't personally think Tebow or Vick are on the same hemisphere as this, especially Tebow. As a teammate, he could be as big of a media attraction for any reason possible, and you would be able to handle it. Any teammate could handle it. It isn't like a teammate is going to freak out about it. But when you're showering next to a guy that finds other naked guys attractive, it has the potential of being at the very least, a little weird. There is a chance some guys can't handle it. There is about a 100% chance that some opposing players are going to say unfathomable things. I agree with Dungy that this isn't going to go as smoothly as we all hope it does.

The one thing that completely baffles me about Dungy's comment is that he says that Sam deserves a shot in the NFL. At the same time saying he wouldn't give him a shot. Which one is it?

 

[SonicHawk]

Tony Dungy is just saying the same thing that most owners said before they hired him.... 'Well, yeah, he should get a chance... but I don't know if 'we're' ready'.

Man up, realize that even though it's a big deal, it won't be a big deal. Shove it down people's faces enough, they'll have to learn to live with it or die being unhappy.

 

[Subzero717]

I don't personally think Tebow or Vick are on the same hemisphere as this, especially Tebow. As a teammate, he could be as big of a media attraction for any reason possible, and you would be able to handle it. Any teammate could handle it. It isn't like a teammate is going to freak out about it. But when you're showering next to a guy that finds other naked guys attractive, it has the potential of being at the very least, a little weird. There is a chance some guys can't handle it. There is about a 100% chance that some opposing players are going to say unfathomable things. I agree with Dungy that this isn't going to go as smoothly as we all hope it does.

The one thing that completely baffles me about Dungy's comment is that he says that Sam deserves a shot in the NFL. At the same time saying he wouldn't give him a shot. Which one is it?

Now your assuming and speaking for 20 year olds? All his teammates at Mizzou knew and none "freaked out about it." I think you think most young people care way more than they actually do. Im not saying all.

@ Kearly, I never said Christian but since you brought it up, Dungy is openly, vocally is opposed to gay marriage. 31 nfl teams havent taken that stance publicly. The interviewer knew all this and baited him.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Former fellow poster Doug Farrar summed it up best:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SI_DougFarrar/status/491233364234342400[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/SI_DougFarrar/status/491233473080725504[/tweet]

 

[kearly]

@ Kearly, I never said Christian but since you brought it up, Dungy is openly, vocally is opposed to gay marriage. 31 nfl teams havent taken that stance publicly. The interviewer knew all this and baited him.

I addressed this in a different thread but the short version is that whether or not Dungy's views played a factor, his reasoning is the same as 31 other teams so it's essentially a moot point.

This same question was asked of Pete Carroll in an interview a few months back and he (in fewer words) gave the same answer. You know Pete's a progressive guy, I don't think for a second Pete hates gays. It really is just a question of risk management and making more of it than that is being unfair to Dungy.

Former fellow poster Doug Farrar summed it up best.

So what about all the non-black, non-christian coaches and GMs who agree with him? Is Tony Dungy obligated to draft Michael Sam just because Dungy is black? Is Dungy a hypocrite for holding the same opinion as almost everyone else just because he happens to be black?

Citing race and religion just strikes me as a convenient way of avoiding the merits of what Dungy is saying.

 

[-The Glove-]

@ Kearly, I never said Christian but since you brought it up, Dungy is openly, vocally is opposed to gay marriage. 31 nfl teams havent taken that stance publicly. The interviewer knew all this and baited him.

I addressed this in a different thread but the short version is that whether or not Dungy's views played a factor, his reasoning is the same as 31 other teams so it's essentially a moot point.

This same question was asked of Pete Carroll in an interview a few months back and he (in fewer words) gave the same answer. You know Pete's a progressive guy, I don't think for a second Pete hates gays. It really is just a question of risk management and making more of it than that is being unfair to Dungy.

Former fellow poster Doug Farrar summed it up best.

So what about all the non-black, non-christian coaches and GMs who agree with him? Is Tony Dungy obligated to draft Michael Sam just because Dungy is black? Is Dungy a hypocrite for holding the same opinion as almost everyone else just because he happens to be black?

Citing race and religion just strikes me as a convenient way of avoiding the merits of what Dungy is saying.

To be frank, yes. It is expected of Dungy to back Sam up. Fortunately, those expectations arent reality and I'm glad Dungy spoke out on his own accord

 

[Subzero717]

@ Kearly, I never said Christian but since you brought it up, Dungy is openly, vocally is opposed to gay marriage. 31 nfl teams havent taken that stance publicly. The interviewer knew all this and baited him.

I addressed this in a different thread but the short version is that whether or not Dungy's views played a factor, his reasoning is the same as 31 other teams so it's essentially a moot point.

This same question was asked of Pete Carroll in an interview a few months back and he (in fewer words) gave the same answer. You know Pete's a progressive guy, I don't think for a second Pete hates gays. It really is just a question of risk management and making more of it than that is being unfair to Dungy.

Former fellow poster Doug Farrar summed it up best.

So what about all the non-black, non-christian coaches and GMs who agree with him? Is Tony Dungy obligated to draft Michael Sam just because Dungy is black? Is Dungy a hypocrite for holding the same opinion as almost everyone else just because he happens to be black?

Citing race and religion just strikes me as a convenient way of avoiding the merits of what Dungy is saying.

Dismiss it all you want. He has said he would love Tebow on his team and is THE ONE that put his arm around Vick and endorsed him. 32 teams want no part of Tebow because he is a distraction and marginal. Call Vick a non issue but I would say PETA etc protesting outside of stadiums is a distraction. If you choose to ignore facts thats fine. Dont dance and dress it as something other than what it is. Sam is a distraction. Tebow and Vick, at the time were too. He had no problem with two out of three.

 

[SonicHawk]

32 teams don't want Tebow because he's garbage. The same reason that [hopefully] no one will want Sam in 3 years.

People put up with a whole bunch of crap and distractions when it comes to athletes. A human interest story like Sam is hardly a unique situation (while the specifics may be). The only distraction you should care about is in the locker room, and for a guy like Sam, it's the other players fault if they are distracted.

Dungy's comments weren't valid. They were ridiculous and backed by years of machoism, and anti-homosexuality.

If Sam gets cut, I will have no doubt that he will be cut because of his inability to perform at an NFL level. Because when it comes down to it, when it comes to exercises and drills and play on the field, none of that ancillary crap matters.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

Sam's teamates in college didn't give a crap out his sexual orientation--they hung out at gay bars with him. It's a non issue. The media needs these non-stories during the draft just because there's nothing else going on. Sam's pro teammates won't care, they'll just "play ball". I don't know why I put that in quotes.