Too Little Too Late? Perhaps, But...

[LTH]

Interesting to listen to Dunlaps comments in his recent PC about how he had to talk to the Seahawks about how he was being used... I found that to be interesting.

LTH

You mean to tell me the coaches were using him wrong? Thats crazy talk.

He didn't go into enough detail. but whatever the case if they were not using him effectively or if they just decided to move him around, whatever they did was effective.


LTH

Sounds like Pete Carroll’s fault.

LOL Ooooh man... you figured it out let me be the first to give you a brownie button and a pat on the back... Golly gee!! LMAO!!!!!!!


LTH

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Thanks for proving my point River. In the prediction thread I said that even if the Hawks win, people will downplay it and/or make excuses for why the Hawks won the game.

This is really what it has come to? People can't even enjoy a win these days w/out people telling them they shouldn't enjoy it and it doesn't mean much.
Literally trying hard to not just enjoy a win. In a very disappointing season, that was a blast.
Where's the "Glum" photo when you need it? They played hard, knocked off a team that had a lot to play for. They showed heart and didn't just pack it in. They showed some pride. They looked like the team we thought they COULD be. But nope, I refuse to be proud of these guys, even if for just one day :?
A great reminder why this place is just getting worse by the week. Very unfortunate, there are plenty of people here who know a ton about football and are fun to talk football with. Even if you disagree with them.

 

[Jville]

It amazes me how out to lunch some are about how team communication and processes work. Explanations are repeated thru out the year by various Seahawks. And yet those explanations fail to connect with the same deft ears.

If there is a fault to be identified, It's got to be a reception problem.

 

[LTH]

Nothing's changed for me.

If Russell can stay healthy the Hawks can scratch and claw for wildcard spots with 2nd and 3rd place finishes in our own division.

If he can't stay healthy, more 7-10's and no playoff seasons.

So if fans are OK with this formula going forward, keep everyone together. I love Pete, I wish we could bottle his enthusiasm and formula's for culture and organization. But IMO if we want to set our sights higher to try to get back to more SB's? Pete isn't going to deliver that anymore.

That's where I stand, too.

The difference between 7-10 and missing the playoffs to 10-7 and being one and done in the playoffs is likely Russell's injury. That's the same result we've been treated to since the end of the 2015 season.

Yes, the Lions and Jets would love to be in our position, and there is a risk that if we start over by firing Pete and hiring a new HC that we backslide and become the west coast version of those hapless franchises. I fully understand and accept that risk. I want more than just a succession of mediocre teams and fully realize that if you want to be great, that you have to be willing to take risks.

As far as holding my head high, last Sunday's win didn't do anything for me with regard to my pride. No one else outside of our fanbase gives a crap about a 7-10 team knocking off a team that had gone 4-6 in the last part of their season and losing big to such juggernauts as the Lions and Panthers. We beat a team that hasn't played consistently well for two months.

You said, " I want more than just a succession of mediocre teams and fully realize that if you want to be great, that you have to be willing to take risks."

And when you take a risk and it doesn't work out exactly the way you planned it, then what? Then you get people second guessing your decisions and telling you that your a second rate coach who has been passed by?

a perfect example is the JA trade. Who would have guessed that the Hawks would be getting a top 10 pick in the draft this year? but about half this board or better will hold that against Pete Carroll, even though we don't know how good JA is ultimately going to be. even though we don't know what JS is going to do with the up coming draft.

The Hawks went into AZ and took care of business and did what most thought they couldn't do. yet you give them no credit.

If anything this season has brought this team closer together, it has made them stronger. this IS due to great coaching philosophy and that at this point is Undeniable.

I said I would judge Pete Carroll after the season was done and I would do it unbias and fairly. My conclusion is that the Hawks are a VERY well coached ball club I think they have proven that in several different ways. They took on a very good AZ team with a depleted secondary and won convincingly.

Not only did John S. do an excellent job finding corners and safety's to fill the gaps due to injury but the coaching staff coached these guys up all year long... same with the O line...

Pete Carroll should NOT be fired and this team should be looked at as a contender for next year.


LTH

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Pete Carroll should NOT be fired and this team should be looked at as a contender for next year.
LTH

I admire your optimism, but no one, and I mean no one outside of you and some other very optimistic fans will think of the Hawks as a SB contender next year......unless they pull off some insane free agent signings.

Not sure how a 12-4 team that gets bounced in the first round by a bad Rams team with a 3rd string QB at home, and then goes 7-10 with the same roster could be considered a contender for anything.

At it's current state, this is no better than a 5th or 6th seed WC team, if Russell can stay healthy all year. Which we now know is no longer a given.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Thanks for proving my point River. In the prediction thread I said that even if the Hawks win, people will downplay it and/or make excuses for why the Hawks won the game.

No qualms here. They balled out against the Cards. It is NOT making me feel better about next year though. That schedule isnt like the last two seasons schedules. I still think Seattle finds themselves in the cellar in the NFC West next season. Some people will hold on to the hope that the good ball they saw the last couple weeks of the season will carry over to next season, but it rarely if ever does.

 

[Jville]

Thanks for proving my point River. In the prediction thread I said that even if the Hawks win, people will downplay it and/or make excuses for why the Hawks won the game.

No qualms here. They balled out against the Cards. It is NOT making me feel better about next year though. That schedule isnt like the last two seasons schedules. I still think Seattle finds themselves in the cellar in the NFC West next season. Some people will hold on to the hope that the good ball they saw the last couple weeks of the season will carry over to next season, but it rarely if ever does.

Because they reboot every year ........... make adjustments in anticipation of trends and rebuild the team once again.

 

[LTH]

Pete Carroll should NOT be fired and this team should be looked at as a contender for next year.
LTH

I admire your optimism, but no one, and I mean no one outside of you and some other very optimistic fans will think of the Hawks as a SB contender next year......unless they pull off some insane free agent signings.

Not sure how a 12-4 team that gets bounced in the first round by a bad Rams team with a 3rd string QB at home, and then goes 7-10 with the same roster could be considered a contender for anything.

At it's current state, this is no better than a 5th or 6th seed WC team, if Russell can stay healthy all year. Which we now know is no longer a given.

I Just don't see this team being that much worse than the rest of the NFC west. I am really feeling good about this D next year the younger players should have much better season next year things should slow down and this D is going to shine. The only question in my mind about this D is corner if they can get that figured out they can open up the scheme and they will be nasty as hell.

Offensively they have the weapons to beat any team it's just a matter of getting everything clicking at the same time going into the play offs that's the challenge IMO ..

look at it as optimistic if you want but I don't see either loss to the Rams this year as dominating wins for the Rams the Hawks were in both those games and nobody can say the hawks didn't get cheated in the first game when Lockett was tripped (no call) and Geno through the pick. and then the No call PI...Locket was not even in that game and our secondary was depleted starting 3rd string DB's

There isn't anyone in the NFL the Hawks can not be competitive with they just need a ball to bounce their way which clearly did not happen at any point this season.


LTH

 

[LTH]

Thanks for proving my point River. In the prediction thread I said that even if the Hawks win, people will downplay it and/or make excuses for why the Hawks won the game.

No qualms here. They balled out against the Cards. It is NOT making me feel better about next year though. That schedule isnt like the last two seasons schedules. I still think Seattle finds themselves in the cellar in the NFC West next season. Some people will hold on to the hope that the good ball they saw the last couple weeks of the season will carry over to next season, but it rarely if ever does.

I'm saving this so I can show you at the end of the season next year.



LTH

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Meh. Great win on Sunday, loved it.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Pete Carroll should NOT be fired and this team should be looked at as a contender for next year.
LTH

I admire your optimism, but no one, and I mean no one outside of you and some other very optimistic fans will think of the Hawks as a SB contender next year......unless they pull off some insane free agent signings.

Not sure how a 12-4 team that gets bounced in the first round by a bad Rams team with a 3rd string QB at home, and then goes 7-10 with the same roster could be considered a contender for anything.

At it's current state, this is no better than a 5th or 6th seed WC team, if Russell can stay healthy all year. Which we now know is no longer a given.

I Just don't see this team being that much worse than the rest of the NFC west. I am really feeling good about this D next year the younger players should have much better season next year things should slow down and this D is going to shine. The only question in my mind about this D is corner if they can get that figured out they can open up the scheme and they will be nasty as hell.

Offensively they have the weapons to beat any team it's just a matter of getting everything clicking at the same time going into the play offs that's the challenge IMO ..

look at it as optimistic if you want but I don't see either loss to the Rams this year as dominating wins for the Rams the Hawks were in both those games and nobody can say the hawks didn't get cheated in the first game when Lockett was tripped (no call) and Geno through the pick. and then the No call PI...Locket was not even in that game and our secondary was depleted starting 3rd string DB's

There isn't anyone in the NFL the Hawks can not be competitive with they just need a ball to bounce their way which clearly did not happen at any point this season.


LTH

You just described 15 of the teams in the NFC. Lots of "well if this happens, and this also happens, then we're good!"

You're also bullish on the defense because of the core? Well most of your core are free agents. Other than Taylor, Adams and Brooks, every other starter on defense needs to be resigned.

idk man, again appreciate the optimism. But until I see how this roster shakes out before training camp. I'm not sold on it being any better than it's been the past 4-5 years, at best 4th seed, and at worst out of the playoffs.

 

[Boycie]

I don't quite share your level of pessimism over Pete and that's perfectly okay. I DO think he still has the ability to get back to the SB with the right talent in place. Will he? Who knows? Maybe you are right and we do need to get rid of him and find fresh blood at the helm. But like the draft, there's simply no guarantees. To me, the focus should be focusing on both the DL and OL, give Shane another year to get this offense gelling in the philosophy he is trying to bring, get a new DC and let's see what 2022 looks like.

I'm just hoping we don't reach on players anymore, and think that we are smarter than everyone else. BPA for the first few rounds, and then positions of need after.

 

[Mad Dog]

It's interesting the logic we try to use to convince ourself that moving on from Pete is anything more than restoring hope. Every time we look for something better it's to remain hopeful. Watching sports itself is filling ourselves with hope every year only to push that forward to the next season if this season doesn't turn out as we'd "hoped". It's purely emotional and nothing logical about it. Yet we debate endlessly and try to use "logical" arguments to rationalize trying to make ourselves feel more hopeful.

There is no data to back up the assertion that moving on from success leads to success. The outcomes of teams moving on from a successful regime has varied from abject and dismal failure (miami, NYG) to one hit wonders (Phi, TB) to ongoing mediocrity (Dallas) to a true success (if you consider NFC north domination by GB a success). Very little data to suggest you immediately improve a situation but of course you might get lucky. But luck is a fickle mistress so don't count on her.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Thanks for proving my point River. In the prediction thread I said that even if the Hawks win, people will downplay it and/or make excuses for why the Hawks won the game.

No qualms here. They balled out against the Cards. It is NOT making me feel better about next year though. That schedule isnt like the last two seasons schedules. I still think Seattle finds themselves in the cellar in the NFC West next season. Some people will hold on to the hope that the good ball they saw the last couple weeks of the season will carry over to next season, but it rarely if ever does.

I'm saving this so I can show you at the end of the season next year.



LTH

Thank you. Please do.

 

[chris98251]

We can only speculate next season, BUT, if we maintain the core and Pete allows the offense to be played like we seen the first game and last two, the defense doesn't start over again we can be very successful.

If Pete, resets and puts the control governors on the offense and defense again we will have the same threads next season. Why can't we score early, why can't we defend, why can't Wilson hit the middle, why do we not use plays that were successful.

It's all about Groundhog Day, do we learn and do we keep the core or start over and repeat the same thing.

 

[GaiusMarius]

It's interesting the logic we try to use to convince ourself that moving on from Pete is anything more than restoring hope. Every time we look for something better it's to remain hopeful. Watching sports itself is filling ourselves with hope every year only to push that forward to the next season if this season doesn't turn out as we'd "hoped". It's purely emotional and nothing logical about it. Yet we debate endlessly and try to use "logical" arguments to rationalize trying to make ourselves feel more hopeful.

There is no data to back up the assertion that moving on from success leads to success. The outcomes of teams moving on from a successful regime has varied from abject and dismal failure (miami, NYG) to one hit wonders (Phi, TB) to ongoing mediocrity (Dallas) to a true success (if you consider NFC north domination by GB a success). Very little data to suggest you immediately improve a situation but of course you might get lucky. But luck is a fickle mistress so don't count on her.

It depends on your definition of success. I don't regard not making the playoffs as successful. I don't regard poor drafting as successful. I don't regard 1 playoff victory in 5 years as successful. I don't regard looking outclassed, including against backup QBs as successful. I don't regard telling fans that "everything is great" as successful.

But hey, if you just care about making the playoffs regardless of the quick exits, then I suppose you see "success", except for this year of course.

Some of us just want more. Nor are we afraid to try something new since we have very likely seen the ceiling of this regime.

 

[LTH]

Pete Carroll should NOT be fired and this team should be looked at as a contender for next year.
LTH

I admire your optimism, but no one, and I mean no one outside of you and some other very optimistic fans will think of the Hawks as a SB contender next year......unless they pull off some insane free agent signings.

Not sure how a 12-4 team that gets bounced in the first round by a bad Rams team with a 3rd string QB at home, and then goes 7-10 with the same roster could be considered a contender for anything.

At it's current state, this is no better than a 5th or 6th seed WC team, if Russell can stay healthy all year. Which we now know is no longer a given.

I Just don't see this team being that much worse than the rest of the NFC west. I am really feeling good about this D next year the younger players should have much better season next year things should slow down and this D is going to shine. The only question in my mind about this D is corner if they can get that figured out they can open up the scheme and they will be nasty as hell.

Offensively they have the weapons to beat any team it's just a matter of getting everything clicking at the same time going into the play offs that's the challenge IMO ..

look at it as optimistic if you want but I don't see either loss to the Rams this year as dominating wins for the Rams the Hawks were in both those games and nobody can say the hawks didn't get cheated in the first game when Lockett was tripped (no call) and Geno through the pick. and then the No call PI...Locket was not even in that game and our secondary was depleted starting 3rd string DB's

There isn't anyone in the NFL the Hawks can not be competitive with they just need a ball to bounce their way which clearly did not happen at any point this season.


LTH

You just described 15 of the teams in the NFC. Lots of "well if this happens, and this also happens, then we're good!"

You're also bullish on the defense because of the core? Well most of your core are free agents. Other than Taylor, Adams and Brooks, every other starter on defense needs to be resigned.

idk man, again appreciate the optimism. But until I see how this roster shakes out before training camp. I'm not sold on it being any better than it's been the past 4-5 years, at best 4th seed, and at worst out of the playoffs.

I actually feel better about this team now than last year coming off of a division winning 12-4 season. I think they will sign the current FA on this team they feel they need to keep around. at this point you must think I'm crazy LOL

As for talent on the O How many teams have a Tyler Lockett and a DK Metcalf and Russell Wilson? none of those 15 teams you were talking about.

I know your probably not going to understand this but I made a post a while back that said it's every bit as much about the journey as it is winning the championship. some times the journey brings people closer together so they can achieve the championship. I think this concept is widely over look and completely misunderstood.

But who am I? I'm just a busted up vet and a musician that can't sing worth a shit. LOL

Thats my take! LOL


LTH

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Well, they lost 5 games by 3 or less points. So there is that.
A LOT of work to do, but I don't think they are nearly as bad as some make them out to be.

 

[ZagHawk]

Well, they lost 5 games by 3 or less points. So there is that.
A LOT of work to do, but I don't think they are nearly as bad as some make them out to be.

My issue with this is I think it was just last year where the team won like 5 games by 3 points or less, and while us Hawk fans were beating our chest that the team is what the record says it is, critics were mentioning that same stat that the team was NOT as good as the record made them out to be (which later proved to be true in the playoffs). So there needs to be a consistency, or are we just going to point to overall season record? or are we as fans going to pick and choose stats like oh our QB was injured for 3-5 games, but also ignore the time the Hawks with RW lost to a team on their 2-5th QB about 3 times this season?

Also regarding the losing games by very few points, over the last decade that has generally been a stat to prove how "right there" the Hawks were for each of their losses. But at the same time we've all been watching so many games where the Hawks were inept in offense pretty much all game, then they are down 3 scores only to have RW pull 2 garbage time TD's out of his ass in the last 6 minutes of the game once the opposing defense switched to prevent defense. In hindsight we'll point to the end score how close the game was, but for those watching that game the team was truly blown out by the start of the 3rd quarter.

 

[sutz]

Well, they lost 5 games by 3 or less points. So there is that.
A LOT of work to do, but I don't think they are nearly as bad as some make them out to be.

:ditto: Indeed.