USA Today: Hawks OL is a disaster, but Wilson isn't helping

[pittpnthrs]

Oh I agree, Sean Payton is a great offensive mind and Drew Brees has mastered his offense. I wonder what Russell Wilson could do in that offense.

Payton and Pete would make a great / unbeatable team. They have the opposite problem we do. Payton is an O minded coach that drafts like crazy trying to fix his D and year after year gets nowhere.

Or even Chip Kelly as OC . . . he's available.

Haha! Would be a disaster.

It cant get much worse.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Payton and Pete would make a great / unbeatable team. They have the opposite problem we do. Payton is an O minded coach that drafts like crazy trying to fix his D and year after year gets nowhere.

Or even Chip Kelly as OC . . . he's available.

Haha! Would be a disaster.

It cant get much worse.

Because winning 70% of the time is so much worse. Wake up.

 

[hawk45]

All trades are kind of a pipedream to predict. I agree we would have to give up major assets for Joe Thomas (a couple highly valued starters like TE Jimmy Graham & CB Jeremy Lane would make the numbers work)

On Sunday, part of the problem was that we weren't sending enough targets out there for Wilson to find. We were in max protect for much of the day, and it backfired - our TEs and RBs would chip and then run late routes, and by then Wilson was in trouble.

Trading Graham would be a new way to create the same problem. Luke Willson and Nick Vannett would not suffice. Wilson would only have fewer weapons in an already shrimpy (all due respect to our perennially pissed-off and clutch WR corps) and injury-prone arsenal. It would probably only lead to more coverage sacks.

The answer is to dump max protect and send these guys out on routes from the snap. It's an obvious answer because we've run it before and it's worked. The only thing holding us back is the coaches' not doing it.

Trading Graham away would avoid the scenario where even when the TE chips there is no time because the TE whiffs.

I was all aboard max protect. It led to Wilson holding the ball and having to dump it at times, but that was more of a process decision than "crap 2 guys are on me instantly."

There is no magic way out of terrible OL. Send everyone out on routes and DBs eventually sit on the short stuff and QB dies. Keep everyone in and there are more defenders per receiver and QB throws it away. Add that we suck at running so PA doesn't work as well and there is no chance.

Brady is the epitome of not needing time and in the first half of the Super Bowl the magic rub routes availed him nothing.

 

[semiahmoo]

I've said this last year but it wasn't well received by most on this site. Russell has been David Carr'd. That alone is reason enough for a coaching overhaul. I'm afraid this staff has destroyed the potential of best QB in franchise history.

You were among too few voices of reason and I commend you for your courage in laying out truth vs blind fan obedience.

RW is gun-shy at this point. The article makes that clear.

He also struggles to see the tighter passing lanes from the pocket due to his lack of height. It's getting tougher and tougher for some in here to deny that.

And now as he slows down a bit - even when healthy, the scramble threat is less as well which in turn is compounded by the Hawks lack of a consistent running game. Hoping Carson can change that but he's up against the same "learning mode" O-Line as Wilson has been dealing with.

And yes - this goes to the coaching and management.

 

[mrt144]

Bring back the read option with gusto?

 

[hawksbydesign]

Wow. On all those plays, Bevel brings in 6-7 guys to block. You have 2 to 3 guys running long routes that take forever to develop and covered by 6 Packers. How dumb is that! And he's doing this over and over and over again.

Get ready for the same shiiit game plan this Sunday vs 49ers. Ridicules!

 

[Jazzhawk]

Or maybe they could address the LT position!

I'm open to suggestions.

If you say Joe Thomas I'm going to put you on ignore for a week. :141847_bnono:

Joe Thomas. :2thumbs:

 

[SoulfishHawk]

That's a lot of assumptions about Russ after 1 game.

 

[hawkfan68]

Or maybe they could address the LT position!

I'm open to suggestions.

If you say Joe Thomas I'm going to put you on ignore for a week. :141847_bnono:

Branden Albert. He retired from the Jags after being traded from the Dolphins to them but was open to coming back before they decided to release him. Thus he may be available. He is a vet who has experience playing LT and is also familiar with ZBS. The Chiefs used ZBS at times in their offense.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...ome-back-retirement-play-jacksonville-jaguars

 

[MontanaHawk05]

I was all aboard max protect. It led to Wilson holding the ball and having to dump it at times, but that was more of a process decision than "crap 2 guys are on me instantly."

Not really. You get Graham and the RB out there instantly and Wilson is getting rid of the ball before the rush can get to him. Peyton Manning made his hay that way for years and folks never figured it out because they're too slaved to blind, simplistic concepts like "10 seconds of protection = only way to win".

If there's "no magic way out of a terrible OL", then how do you explain his success from the pocket in 2015? It's not like we had a good OL back then.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Or maybe they could address the LT position!

I'm open to suggestions.

If you say Joe Thomas I'm going to put you on ignore for a week. :141847_bnono:

Branden Albert. He retired from the Jags after being traded from the Dolphins to them but was open to coming back before they decided to release him. Thus he may be available. He is a vet who has experience playing LT and is also familiar with ZBS. The Chiefs used ZBS at times in their offense.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...ome-back-retirement-play-jacksonville-jaguars

You might have missed the part where he wants to play for another team.

 

[NFSeahawks]

I agree about his height, I think Cable even said it in an interview way back in the day. When he cant see he's going to move. Wilson needs to learn how to manipulate the pocket like drew brees does

Brees has Sean Payton who uses quick 3 step routes at the beginning to establish rythm. Our playcalling is terrible. We either throw a screen (Our receivers outside of Baldwin can't block). Or we have routes that take 5-7 steps to develop. By that time the pressure is in his face. We need to go from a vertical to a horizontal offense if this OL philosophy is to remain.

Oh I agree, Sean Payton is a great offensive mind and Drew Brees has mastered his offense. I wonder what Russell Wilson could do in that offense.

I didn't like you mentioning how Wilson needs to manipulate the pocket like Drew Brees does, without giving actual specifics. Please give specifics, so I can understand your point.

Also it's a very lazy observation to say Sean Payton is a mastermind and only mastermind coaches would know to use quick routes and throws to move the ball down the field. For me thats pretty common knowledge of adjusting to the defense.

The ground and pound worked because defenses couldn't stop it, but were still trying to do it when it doesn't work. Gotta adapt in the NFL.

 

[hawkfan68]

Or maybe they could address the LT position!

I'm open to suggestions.

If you say Joe Thomas I'm going to put you on ignore for a week. :141847_bnono:

Branden Albert. He retired from the Jags after being traded from the Dolphins to them but was open to coming back before they decided to release him. Thus he may be available. He is a vet who has experience playing LT and is also familiar with ZBS. The Chiefs used ZBS at times in their offense.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...ome-back-retirement-play-jacksonville-jaguars

You might have missed the part where he wants to play for another team.

The article did say he wanted to return to the Jaguars but that was on Aug 8 (article written) before the Jags ultimately released him on Aug 11. So he's available now.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2017/08/jaguars-release-branden-albert

 

[mrt144]

I was all aboard max protect. It led to Wilson holding the ball and having to dump it at times, but that was more of a process decision than "crap 2 guys are on me instantly."

Not really. You get Graham and the RB out there instantly and Wilson is getting rid of the ball before the rush can get to him. Peyton Manning made his hay that way for years and folks never figured it out because they're too slaved to blind, simplistic concepts like "10 seconds of protection = only way to win".

If there's "no magic way out of a terrible OL", then how do you explain his success from the pocket in 2015? It's not like we had a good OL back then.

I layed this out at fieldgulls but I'll do a micro version here

If the Hawks want to develop an offensive identity similar to what they had from 2012-2014 they will need to trip over themselves often trying to develop the abilities to pull it off.

If the Hawks want to maximize their current position player talent they will not try and develop players to fit the scheme, they'll fit the scheme to the players and eat the downsides of playing spread and/or hurry up, where the Hawks have shown better capability recently.

From where I sit, I feel like PC wants to run a specific brand of offense but doesn't have the players capable of pulling it off well at this point and is willing to eat garbage for weeks, months, years to get there again because he thinks the payoff is huge.

For the tinkerers and troubleshooters among us though, it is hell.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

From where I sit, I feel like PC wants to run a specific brand of offense but doesn't have the players capable of pulling it off well at this point and is willing to eat garbage for weeks, months, years to get there again because he thinks the payoff is huge.

For the tinkerers and troubleshooters among us though, it is hell.

That's exactly how I feel. Sunday seemed like Week 5 of the preseason and this isn't the first time Pete has been accused of sandbagging all the way through Halloween in order to get a late-season push.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

I'm open to suggestions.

If you say Joe Thomas I'm going to put you on ignore for a week. :141847_bnono:

Branden Albert. He retired from the Jags after being traded from the Dolphins to them but was open to coming back before they decided to release him. Thus he may be available. He is a vet who has experience playing LT and is also familiar with ZBS. The Chiefs used ZBS at times in their offense.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...ome-back-retirement-play-jacksonville-jaguars

You might have missed the part where he wants to play for another team.

The article did say he wanted to return to the Jaguars but that was on Aug 8 (article written) before the Jags ultimately released him on Aug 11. So he's available now.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2017/08/jaguars-release-branden-albert

Ah. So I'm the one who got snotty and then didn't read the article. My bad.

Then again, the Jags releasing him still doesn't bode well for his abilities right now...

 

[erik2690]

I recognize the author right away. He hates Wilson. Doesn't mean everything he argues is wrong, but he may exaggerate and elevate based on that. One of the plays he highlights is the play Brock broke down and I kinda trust Brock more than a college journalist.

 

[hawkfan68]

Branden Albert. He retired from the Jags after being traded from the Dolphins to them but was open to coming back before they decided to release him. Thus he may be available. He is a vet who has experience playing LT and is also familiar with ZBS. The Chiefs used ZBS at times in their offense.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...ome-back-retirement-play-jacksonville-jaguars

You might have missed the part where he wants to play for another team.

The article did say he wanted to return to the Jaguars but that was on Aug 8 (article written) before the Jags ultimately released him on Aug 11. So he's available now.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2017/08/jaguars-release-branden-albert

Ah. So I'm the one who got snotty and then didn't read the article. My bad.

Then again, the Jags releasing him still doesn't bode well for his abilities right now...

Possibly but I would think that he's probably more serviceable than Odhiambo or Tobin or whoever the Seahawks have at LT currently. Albert was a pro-bowler at one point in his career, his experience at LT could be valuable. Especially if the young guys are still very raw.

 

[kf3339]

Or maybe they could address the LT position!

I'm open to suggestions.

If you say Joe Thomas I'm going to put you on ignore for a week. :141847_bnono:

Just curious, but would Brandon Albert be a good option?

 

[scutterhawk]

Since the beginning of football, one of the requirements of the QB position has been to hang in the pocket and make tough throws even right down to stepping into your throw knowing you're going to get hit. This is NOT new. Nor is RW's questionable pocket presence.

This IS a compound problem. Video evidence doesn't lend to denial here.

"Questionable Pocket Presence" my ass, The second half of 2015 is proof that Wilson can pass from the "pocket", his numbers were sensational ONCE Cable got the O-Line to form a pocket, and then Pass protect their asses off.
Cable was hired to put together a Run Block Offense, that's why when Rawls showed that he could scamper through creases at lightning speed, Cable mentioned that Lynch would have to make some adjustments to the way the O-Line had been restructured
THEN 2016 happens, Pete gives Cable the task of re-booting for the Run game, thinking that we maybe had enough Backs to reestablish his run first mantra....Only problem is, Wilson's pocket disintegrates, he gets creamed, hurt, and everything goes back to square one.
Now we are into the beginning stages of 2017, There is NO continuity, NO cohesion, NO pass protection, OR run push.
Wilson is suppose to stand still and take the hits from the nonexistent Pocket?
Quick passes in the flat....to WHO?
Screen passes....to WHO?