We're sorry, Tical. You were right, please forgive us, Tical

[SoulfishHawk]

He can do all the things that people refuse to admit he can. People literally make stuff up to fit their narrative about the guy.

 

[chris98251]

He can do all the things that people refuse to admit he can. People literally make stuff up to fit their narrative about the guy.

Much of the arguments were not that he can but why he doesn't or would not. We seen the productivity when he does do them yesterday, granted competition and a running game contributed, but still he is less beat up doing it and getting the ball out and using the whole field.

 

[GeekHawk]

We're not sorry tical. You were never right at all tical. The op in this thread is one of the stupider posts ever on dot net tical, and that's saying *A LOT* tical.

 

[Tical21]

Come on Tical. Yet another game where Russ did all the things you claim he can't.
Apology time :mrgreen:

Russell was just fine. The Texans stayed in single high and his favorite concepts were open. When are you going to bother to learn to read a coverage?

When he hits a dig or corner or doesn't look lost against 2-deep I will more than gladly come in here and pronounce to the world that I was wrong. Until he does, there is no chance of convincing me he is capable of doing these things.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Look at you doubling down. You're literally WRONG and still can't just admit it.
Good Stuff.

 

[Tical21]

Look at you doubling down. You're literally WRONG and still can't just admit it.
Good Stuff.

Wrong about??? Let's see you try to put this into words.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Nah, I'd have better luck clapping with one hand. You're not worth the effort. You already made up your mind and got your attention. Congrats. Plus, you're not interested in facts or what anyone else has to say. You literally started a thread asking for apologies. Think about that for a second. How pathetic.

You're just wrong that's all.

 

[Seymour]

Nah, I'd have better luck clapping with one hand. You're not worth the effort. You already made up your mind and got your attention. Congrats. Plus, you're not interested in facts or what anyone else has to say. You literally started a thread asking for apologies. Think about that for a second. How pathetic.

You're just wrong that's all.

Agree! Pathetic and not worth the effort would be correct.

:snack:

 

[John63]

Nah, I'd have better luck clapping with one hand. You're not worth the effort. You already made up your mind and got your attention. Congrats. Plus, you're not interested in facts or what anyone else has to say. You literally started a thread asking for apologies. Think about that for a second. How pathetic.

You're just wrong that's all.

Nailed IT!!!

 

[Tical21]

Thought that's what you'd say. Typical. I said, as I have NUMEROUS times that teams that run 2-high are going to give him major problems. Is that what I said? Yes or no will suffice.

Did the Texans run 2-deep? Yes or no will suffice.

Why am I having this discussion with someone with both reading comprehension and defensive comprehension issues?

The day he executes a basic concept against 2-high, let me know. Until then, learn to read basic coverages and piss off.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Time for some BBQ..........

 

[massari]

Thought that's what you'd say. Typical. I said, as I have NUMEROUS times that teams that run 2-high are going to give him major problems. Is that what I said? Yes or no will suffice.

Did the Texans run 2-deep? Yes or no will suffice.

Why am I having this discussion with someone with both reading comprehension and defensive comprehension issues?

The day he executes a basic concept against 2-high, let me know. Until then, learn to read basic coverages and piss off.

If this was truly his kryptonite, all teams would be utilizing it.

Tical21 BTFO again!

 

[John63]

Thought that's what you'd say. Typical. I said, as I have NUMEROUS times that teams that run 2-high are going to give him major problems. Is that what I said? Yes or no will suffice.

Did the Texans run 2-deep? Yes or no will suffice.

Why am I having this discussion with someone with both reading comprehension and defensive comprehension issues?

The day he executes a basic concept against 2-high, let me know. Until then, learn to read basic coverages and piss off.

If this was truly his kryptonite, all teams would be utilizing it.

Tical21 BTFO again!

Notice Tical provides no proof.

If he knew he had it he would provide the comply %, td/Int, and a passer rating of every game and play where 2 high was used. But he can't and won't because he knows he is full of it.

And of course this being a copy cat league and Wilson in for 10 years if this was true teams would have been doing it years ago and all the time.

BUt let me help Tical well not really

Russell Wilson vs Safety Alignment, 2020

SAFETY ALIGNMENT COMP/ATT (%) YPA SACK% EPA/ATT POSITIVE PLAY%
Single-high 151/219 (68.9%) 8.6 9.9% 0.15 57.1%
2-high 108/156 (69.2%) 8.1 5.6% 0.10 60.5%
Wilson has a higher completion percentage and higher positive play rate against two-high coverages but the big plays down the field haven’t come as often.


Whaaat he is actually great against 2 high. and once again TICAL is WRONG.

 

[olyfan63]

I just want to say "Thank You" and Happy Holidays to KEasley45, Tical, Hawk45, and others who have patiently, and for a long time, made the case illustrating Russell's deficiencies while also reasonably honoring his considerable superpowers. I'll just refer to you as the Russell-needs-to-learn-how-to-handle-cover2 crowd, or slightly shorter, LoveRussellButHeSucksVsCover2. And the same "Thank You" and Happy Holidays to to the LoveRussellHeCanDoNoWrong crowd, personified by John63. Without you, there would be no contrast and less learning.

For the first time ever, thanks to y'all, I feel like I understand Russell's successes and failures, and the dynamic between Pete, Russell, the different OCs, and the reasons why Russell and the team were highly successful in Russell's rookie contract, but not as successful, playoffs-wise, after Russell got paid. I also understand why the Rams have been such a horrible matchup for us over the years, they've been Russell's kryptonite, because they understand Russell's weaknesses and have long had the tools to exploit them, e.g., their killer pass rush and D-Linemen and LBs who can run Russell down, and a good secondary.

The LoveRussellHeCanDoNoWrong crowd, and the hyperventilating emotional Russell-can-do-no-wrong arguments are the perfect foil for the the factually stated and supported case that the LoveRussellButHeSucksVsCover2 crew have stated in this thread. Kind of a Draco Malfoy to the opposing Harry Potter. Or Dexter Morgan vs. James Doakes. Doakes was absolutely right about Dexter, about something being "off" about him, but had shit for luck, and it ended badly for Doakes. Hey, it's just a TV show. It's just NFL entertainment football.

Place me firmly in the LoveRussellButHeSucksVsCover2 crowd. I owe no apology to Tical because I can't ever recall denying his case, mainly because I didn't understand it before. I do increasingly see the core truths of many of his points, with help from the rest of the crowd. Also place me in the RussellImproveAndProveYourCover2DoubtersWrong.

All that said, the upcoming Rams game is a crucial test for Russell and the offense. I hold no illusions that Russell will magically learn to read and exploit cover 2. I just hope for a little growth, a few 3rd-and-3, 3rd-and-4 conversions, and for the team to scheme a way for Russell to have success against that Rams D. Can we run them out of cover 2? Can we design a couple Cover-2 beaters Russ can actually read and execute, especially on 3rd down?

Russell's QB superpowers are SO GOOD they've allowed him and the team to largely mask his deficiencies. Russell's issues primarily show up against strong opponents, and in high-stakes situations. If he could improve even a little in those areas, the sky's the limit.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Who is saying he can do no wrong? Every QB has their weaknesses, ALL OF THEM. And Pete allowed him to come back too soon. He wasn't ready until the Niners game imo. But people literally making stuff about a guy that doesn't actually exist? What does that accomplish? Believe what you want, it IS ok to disagree.
At least it should be.

 

[John63]

I just want to say "Thank You" and Happy Holidays to KEasley45, Tical, Hawk45, and others who have patiently, and for a long time, made the case illustrating Russell's deficiencies while also reasonably honoring his considerable superpowers. I'll just refer to you as the Russell-needs-to-learn-how-to-handle-cover2 crowd, or slightly shorter, LoveRussellButHeSucksVsCover2. And the same "Thank You" and Happy Holidays to to the LoveRussellHeCanDoNoWrong crowd, personified by John63. Without you, there would be no contrast and less learning.

For the first time ever, thanks to y'all, I feel like I understand Russell's successes and failures, and the dynamic between Pete, Russell, the different OCs, and the reasons why Russell and the team were highly successful in Russell's rookie contract, but not as successful, playoffs-wise, after Russell got paid. I also understand why the Rams have been such a horrible matchup for us over the years, they've been Russell's kryptonite, because they understand Russell's weaknesses and have long had the tools to exploit them, e.g., their killer pass rush and D-Linemen and LBs who can run Russell down, and a good secondary.

The LoveRussellHeCanDoNoWrong crowd, and the hyperventilating emotional Russell-can-do-no-wrong arguments are the perfect foil for the the factually stated and supported case that the LoveRussellButHeSucksVsCover2 crew have stated in this thread. Kind of a Draco Malfoy to the opposing Harry Potter. Or Dexter Morgan vs. James Doakes. Doakes was absolutely right about Dexter, about something being "off" about him, but had $h!t for luck, and it ended badly for Doakes. Hey, it's just a TV show. It's just NFL entertainment football.

Place me firmly in the LoveRussellButHeSucksVsCover2 crowd. I owe no apology to Tical because I can't ever recall denying his case, mainly because I didn't understand it before. I do increasingly see the core truths of many of his points, with help from the rest of the crowd. Also place me in the RussellImproveAndProveYourCover2DoubtersWrong.

All that said, the upcoming Rams game is a crucial test for Russell and the offense. I hold no illusions that Russell will magically learn to read and exploit cover 2. I just hope for a little growth, a few 3rd-and-3, 3rd-and-4 conversions, and for the team to scheme a way for Russell to have success against that Rams D. Can we run them out of cover 2? Can we design a couple Cover-2 beaters Russ can actually read and execute, especially on 3rd down?

Russell's QB superpowers are SO GOOD they've allowed him and the team to largely mask his deficiencies. Russell's issues primarily show up against strong opponents, and in high-stakes situations. If he could improve even a little in those areas, the sky's the limit.

LOl yeah ignore the facts I posted saying otherwise about cover 2 and just go with the Qhawks. I will make it easier for you since you seem somewhat rational. No player in the NFL is without his defincencies to include Wilson, we have pointed out when he makes mistakes. The difference is we realize just because you make a mistake does not mean you can't and always do. For example, Mahomes had a string of 5 of 7 games where he played like crap. All against single high. However, no one said he cant play again single high. The fact is he normally carves it up He just had a string of bad games combined with a great pass rush. However, Wilsons are far less pronounced than those you praise are suggesting as I and others have pointed out supply facts to support us rather than just claims. That said lets also use some common sense do you really think in 10 years if indeed he was so bad against 2 high that no one would have noticed and started using it? The facts I provided show otherwise. There is a difference between having a rough patch and being nad against something.

 

[keasley45]

I just want to say "Thank You" and Happy Holidays to KEasley45, Tical, Hawk45, and others who have patiently, and for a long time, made the case illustrating Russell's deficiencies while also reasonably honoring his considerable superpowers. I'll just refer to you as the Russell-needs-to-learn-how-to-handle-cover2 crowd, or slightly shorter, LoveRussellButHeSucksVsCover2. And the same "Thank You" and Happy Holidays to to the LoveRussellHeCanDoNoWrong crowd, personified by John63. Without you, there would be no contrast and less learning.

For the first time ever, thanks to y'all, I feel like I understand Russell's successes and failures, and the dynamic between Pete, Russell, the different OCs, and the reasons why Russell and the team were highly successful in Russell's rookie contract, but not as successful, playoffs-wise, after Russell got paid. I also understand why the Rams have been such a horrible matchup for us over the years, they've been Russell's kryptonite, because they understand Russell's weaknesses and have long had the tools to exploit them, e.g., their killer pass rush and D-Linemen and LBs who can run Russell down, and a good secondary.

The LoveRussellHeCanDoNoWrong crowd, and the hyperventilating emotional Russell-can-do-no-wrong arguments are the perfect foil for the the factually stated and supported case that the LoveRussellButHeSucksVsCover2 crew have stated in this thread. Kind of a Draco Malfoy to the opposing Harry Potter. Or Dexter Morgan vs. James Doakes. Doakes was absolutely right about Dexter, about something being "off" about him, but had $h!t for luck, and it ended badly for Doakes. Hey, it's just a TV show. It's just NFL entertainment football.

Place me firmly in the LoveRussellButHeSucksVsCover2 crowd. I owe no apology to Tical because I can't ever recall denying his case, mainly because I didn't understand it before. I do increasingly see the core truths of many of his points, with help from the rest of the crowd. Also place me in the RussellImproveAndProveYourCover2DoubtersWrong.

All that said, the upcoming Rams game is a crucial test for Russell and the offense. I hold no illusions that Russell will magically learn to read and exploit cover 2. I just hope for a little growth, a few 3rd-and-3, 3rd-and-4 conversions, and for the team to scheme a way for Russell to have success against that Rams D. Can we run them out of cover 2? Can we design a couple Cover-2 beaters Russ can actually read and execute, especially on 3rd down?

Russell's QB superpowers are SO GOOD they've allowed him and the team to largely mask his deficiencies. Russell's issues primarily show up against strong opponents, and in high-stakes situations. If he could improve even a little in those areas, the sky's the limit.

Nice post and thanks for the thanks, but none needed. It's all just part of the pleasure and pain that is .NET - and at the end of the day, who are we kidding, it's all pleasure...mostly

Agree though that it would be nice to see continued improvement on Offense. Not just from Russ but as a whole.

Last week was promising. I dont know if it was just Houston being a bad team, but Penny looked Carson-like hitting the hole. He's not as physical, but what Chris has in power, Penny has in speed. Eager ro see if he can stay healthy and keep it going.

Russ again did a good job feeling the pocket and hanging in the read that 1/10th of a second longer to hit his guy. And his accuracy on the long ball is there again.

He forced a few He didn't have to but overall, when the running game is going the way it was and the air attack was varied enough to keep the D guessing, shots are easier to stomach.

The balance helped keep the defense out the looks that give Russ fits. Hopefully we can build on this in 5 days and tickle how good we might be if Shane can get Russ dialed in and crank up the scheme a bit - so much depends on him getting the ball out.

But commit to the run, pass of of it, and the chance of our QB doing his thing go up considerably.

Doesn't have to be 350 and 4tds . I'd take 140 on the ground and 260 through the air with the TDs happening either way, all day long. Might not win an MVP, but it's winning football in Seattle.

 

[olyfan63]

LOl yeah ignore the facts I posted saying otherwise about cover 2 and just go with the Qhawks. I will make it easier for you since you seem somewhat rational. No player in the NFL is without his defincencies to include Wilson, we have pointed out when he makes mistakes. The difference is we realize just because you make a mistake does not mean you can't and always do. For example, Mahomes had a string of 5 of 7 games where he played like crap. All against single high. However, no one said he cant play again single high. The fact is he normally carves it up He just had a string of bad games combined with a great pass rush. However, Wilsons are far less pronounced than those you praise are suggesting as I and others have pointed out supply facts to support us rather than just claims. That said lets also use some common sense do you really think in 10 years if indeed he was so bad against 2 high that no one would have noticed and started using it? The facts I provided show otherwise. There is a difference between having a rough patch and being nad against something.

Everything you mentioned comes in a distant last behind Kurt Warner's video breakdown and every other actual NFL QB analyst, and also way behind the Rams defense and the way they've owned Russell over the years.

Remember the game where Golden Tate did the taunting bye-bye to the Rams CB, Janoris Jenkins IIRC, as he caught Russell's deep ball and waltzed into the end zone? That was about ALL the Hawks got that game, and it was barely enough to win. How about that Monday night win where the Hawks offense sucked, but Heath Farwell made a goal line stop to preserve the win? Even the exceptions with the Rams prove the point. The best game I recall Russell having vs. the Rams was the 30-29 win in 2019. Carson ran 27 times for 118 yards, Seahawks got 2 Rams turnovers, and the Rams missed a woulda-been-game-winning field goal as time expired. The next game, a couple months later, the Rams did a 28-12 beatdown on the Hawks, with no TDs from the Seattle offense, Russell sacked 5 times, threw a pick, and Hawks only TD was a pick-6 from Diggs.

The Rams know Russell's weaknesses and have the horses to exploit them, especially when it really matters. Not every NFL team has an Aaron Donald, or (in the past) Robert Quinn.

Just because not all teams have the player talent or scheme knowledge to exploit Russell's weaknesses, doesn't mean they don't exist. It doesn't mean he's not a great QB with amazing QB superpowers. It does mean he's not in the same league as Tom Brady when it comes to reading defenses and instantly knowing where to go with the ball, but then very, very few are.

NFL OCs are going to look at opposing defenses strengths, weaknesses, tendencies, and exploitable matchups. Remember Brady exploiting Tharald Simon in SB49? All Brady did was go "Where's Simon?" at the LOS and then throw to whichever quick small receiver, Amendola or Edelman, was in Simon's area. So the OC and Russell are going to do their best to find things they can exploit and develop a game plan based on them. Some teams will have no answer for Russell's QB superpowers. It's not enough for teams to just play Cover-2. OK, so the middle center of the field is dead to Russell when opponents run Cover-2, but can they match up with Tyler and DK outside and downfield? Can their pass rush force Russell to throw it before he wants to, or sack him? Can their run defense when in Cover-2 not be gashed by Carson or even (gasp!) lately... Penny?

Mahomes is one of the best comps to Russell. They have similar QB superpowers. The league is starting to learn Mahomes tendencies, and it's tougher sledding for him now. Tampa Bay, like the Rams, has personnel on their D that can force the issue. That and KC had an injured O-Line that was hot garbage in that game. In the prior Super Bowl, the one KC won, Mahomes basically pulled a Russell, scrambling around and finding a WR deep downfield. (SF fans all say a blatant hold was ignored, giving Mahomes the time to throw--they may have a point) Then Mahomes KC D and run game helped him out a bit, to preserve the win. That formula, along with cheap rookie contract, was golden for Russell, and it worked for Mahomes too.

Come back here after the Rams game and note all the plays where Russell read a Cover-2 zone, and made a throw in the middle of the field for a 3rd down conversion. Same thing after the Cardinals game. I'm expecting it to be a "very short list", but would be happy to be wrong. That would be progress for Russell.

Russell has "rough patches", aside from injury, because of holes in his QB game, and opponents who have the horses on D to take advantage of them. His rough patches are not random.

 

[olyfan63]

Although as keasley45 said he’ll beat cover 2 a few times a game and John will put up an isolated stat or dots on a chart when the truth is Russ broke the pocket and ran around until the zone broke down, but did not beat it with pre or post snap recognition and anticipation

--snip--
Moving on would be accepting Wilson can’t beat cover 2 and discussing how to fix it or if he’d tolerate the fix.

Yup. Pretty much nailed it, and that's where I'm at too.
With the LRC unraveling fiasco of last season, it almost seems part of the issue could be Russell's unwillingness to acknowledge the issue and truly go to work on it, as opposed to relying on scheming around it. It felt to me like when the Hawks hit 3-8 that Russell made a decision to work on that deficiency in his game. I have no proof of that, but hope to see evidence in the Rams and Cardinals games.

 

[John63]

LOl yeah ignore the facts I posted saying otherwise about cover 2 and just go with the Qhawks. I will make it easier for you since you seem somewhat rational. No player in the NFL is without his defincencies to include Wilson, we have pointed out when he makes mistakes. The difference is we realize just because you make a mistake does not mean you can't and always do. For example, Mahomes had a string of 5 of 7 games where he played like crap. All against single high. However, no one said he cant play again single high. The fact is he normally carves it up He just had a string of bad games combined with a great pass rush. However, Wilsons are far less pronounced than those you praise are suggesting as I and others have pointed out supply facts to support us rather than just claims. That said lets also use some common sense do you really think in 10 years if indeed he was so bad against 2 high that no one would have noticed and started using it? The facts I provided show otherwise. There is a difference between having a rough patch and being nad against something.

Everything you mentioned comes in a distant last behind Kurt Warner's video breakdown and every other actual NFL QB analyst, and also way behind the Rams defense and the way they've owned Russell over the years.

Remember the game where Golden Tate did the taunting bye-bye to the Rams CB, Janoris Jenkins IIRC, as he caught Russell's deep ball and waltzed into the end zone? That was about ALL the Hawks got that game, and it was barely enough to win. How about that Monday night win where the Hawks offense sucked, but Heath Farwell made a goal line stop to preserve the win? Even the exceptions with the Rams prove the point. The best game I recall Russell having vs. the Rams was the 30-29 win in 2019. Carson ran 27 times for 118 yards, Seahawks got 2 Rams turnovers, and the Rams missed a woulda-been-game-winning field goal as time expired. The next game, a couple months later, the Rams did a 28-12 beatdown on the Hawks, with no TDs from the Seattle offense, Russell sacked 5 times, threw a pick, and Hawks only TD was a pick-6 from Diggs.

The Rams know Russell's weaknesses and have the horses to exploit them, especially when it really matters. Not every NFL team has an Aaron Donald, or (in the past) Robert Quinn.

Just because not all teams have the player talent or scheme knowledge to exploit Russell's weaknesses, doesn't mean they don't exist. It doesn't mean he's not a great QB with amazing QB superpowers. It does mean he's not in the same league as Tom Brady when it comes to reading defenses and instantly knowing where to go with the ball, but then very, very few are.

NFL OCs are going to look at opposing defenses strengths, weaknesses, tendencies, and exploitable matchups. Remember Brady exploiting Tharald Simon in SB49? All Brady did was go "Where's Simon?" at the LOS and then throw to whichever quick small receiver, Amendola or Edelman, was in Simon's area. So the OC and Russell are going to do their best to find things they can exploit and develop a game plan based on them. Some teams will have no answer for Russell's QB superpowers. It's not enough for teams to just play Cover-2. OK, so the middle center of the field is dead to Russell when opponents run Cover-2, but can they match up with Tyler and DK outside and downfield? Can their pass rush force Russell to throw it before he wants to, or sack him? Can their run defense when in Cover-2 not be gashed by Carson or even (gasp!) lately... Penny?

Mahomes is one of the best comps to Russell. They have similar QB superpowers. The league is starting to learn Mahomes tendencies, and it's tougher sledding for him now. Tampa Bay, like the Rams, has personnel on their D that can force the issue. That and KC had an injured O-Line that was hot garbage in that game. In the prior Super Bowl, the one KC won, Mahomes basically pulled a Russell, scrambling around and finding a WR deep downfield. (SF fans all say a blatant hold was ignored, giving Mahomes the time to throw--they may have a point) Then Mahomes KC D and run game helped him out a bit, to preserve the win. That formula, along with cheap rookie contract, was golden for Russell, and it worked for Mahomes too.

Come back here after the Rams game and note all the plays where Russell read a Cover-2 zone, and made a throw in the middle of the field for a 3rd down conversion. Same thing after the Cardinals game. I'm expecting it to be a "very short list", but would be happy to be wrong. That would be progress for Russell.

Russell has "rough patches", aside from injury, because of holes in his QB game, and opponents who have the horses on D to take advantage of them. His rough patches are not random.

You mean the video he did of 1 game and a few playes compared to the stats of a whole season. Right.. what ever makes u feel good.


Fyi since love Warner deal with this

"Former NFL star-turned-analyst Kurt Warner has expressed his true feelings on Russell Wilson, putting him as one of the greatest to ever do it, even comparing him to Peyton Manning and Tom Brady for the fact that Wilson gets better every year. "

https://bolavip.com/en/nfl/kurt-war...m-brady-and-peyton-manning-20210108-0022.html

You see there is a difference between analyzing a game and some plays and a whole season or career. Warner knows that. Maybe u should learn that.
Thanks for playing.