Were We Asking Too Much of 2022 Hawks D?

[cymatica]

Please show me one article where they said the defense was suppose to be the strength of the team.

There WAS NO strength of this team pre-season. How can there possibly be any strength when everyone expected you to only win 4-5 games.

It wasn't until the defense started playing well in October and the Hawks became a playoff contending team that everyone's expectations went way up. In the words of the great Dennis Green...................


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The defense wasn't supposed to be historically bad.

 

[Chukarhawk]

Training Camp generated a sense of reassurance that our 2022 Seahawks Defense would be upgraded, if not a remarkable improvement for the season ahead.

Most of us expected a “developing team” measure of success for the team overall.

And, to be fair - we had those 4 solid weeks of defensive success, right?

We already know that a defensive-oriented draft is in our immediate future.

The justified disappointment in our Seattle defense is so palatable that I can feel it as far East as Mt. St Helen’s ash can be traced.

Did we ask too much of these guys? Was the defense set-up for failure?

I can’t help but to wonder how this is even possible for a coach who has devoted the majority of his career building defenses?

no, This squad has zero excuses for being this putrid. I said it in the gameday thread 2 weeks ago against the rams that it looked like this squad has given up. Something is really wrong in that locker room.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The defense wasn't supposed to be historically bad.

Now we're having a pissing match on how bad the defense was suppose to be, awesome.

Fade said "Strength." Not bad, not historically bad. Strength, as in good. No team predicted to win 5 games was suppose to be good in any phase of the game.

You guys are once again trying to fit your terrible Pete and his coaches don't know what they're doing with the worst defensive roster they've had in Pete's entire tenure. Other than Woolen and Nwousu, there's no elite talent on this defense. None.

 

[cymatica]

Now we're having a pissing match on how bad the defense was suppose to be, awesome.

Fade said "Strength." Not bad, not historically bad. Strength, as in good. No team predicted to win 5 games was suppose to be good in any phase of the game.

You guys are once again trying to fit your terrible Pete and his coaches don't know what they're doing with the worst defensive roster they've had in Pete's entire tenure. Other than Woolen and Nwousu, there's no elite talent on this defense. None.

Doesn't need to be elite. Even below average talent doesn't give up 200+ rushing yards several games in a row, 160+ on the season. If it's not on the coaches, and it's just lack of talent, then it's still on the coaches who put together this roster.

 

[Grahamhawker]

No doubt resources have been squandered.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

you had me til you said Staton. Couldn't care less what that guy has to say

I know Staton is disliked, but even disliked ppl can state facts like draft position and cap.

Youknow, for every positive signing we’ve made on the o, we’ve doubled down and lost on d.

If sea wants to run A 3-4 bring Fangio in.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

and it's just lack of talent, then it's still on the coaches who put together this roster.

Yep.

 

[AROS]

We went into the 2nd half without Woods and Harris on the DL. Game over.

I don't think this fact has been underscored enough. That was a MASSIVE blow, and ultimately a fatal one for our chances last Sunday.

 

[Bobblehead]

They are what they are.. there was never any hype about them.. well actually a lot of us suspected they would be bad.

 

[Polk738]

Well, according to Rob Staton….

“5. For all the talk of needing more talent on defense, here’s a quick reminder. Jordyn Brooks and LJ Collier were first round picks. Darrell Taylor and Boye Mafe were second round picks. Cody Barton is a third round pick. They paid to retain Poona Ford and Bryan Mone and Ford has the biggest cap-hit on the team this year. Uchenna Nwosu is the most expensive outside free agent they’ve ever signed. They re-signed Al Woods and brought back Quinton Jefferson. Next year, Jamal Adams and Quandre Diggs are set to account for $36m of Seattle’s cap space. Nwosu and Shelby Harris combine for $25m. This is a defense that has been built and frankly, resources have been squandered. That should be remembered as we discuss whether this is just a situation that can be fixed by these decision makers simply adding more players. They need to do a much better job than they have been doing.”

Some thoughts with the Seahawks season going south – Seahawks Draft Blog

seahawksdraftblog.com

Ppl don’t like Staton but is he really wrong here?

This is what's strange to me, if you're switching schemes then why retain so many guys from the old scheme? Brooks, Taylor, Barton and Collier were drafted under the old scheme- They probably had more faith in Poona Ford to transition to 3T than he actually has been able to, Bryan Mone is a 4-3 DT and can't two gap, I'm not sure what they saw in Jefferson to re-sign him, he's been terrible all year. Al Woods has been great but I think the NT position has really taken a toll on him this year, Chenna and Harris were good pick-ups. Diggs is terrible, I know he had 2 picks in one game but watching him try to blitz and constantly miss tackles is just infuriating.

 

[Polk738]

Here is a great breakdown of the Hawks D against Carolina. Names names and shows issues. No big surprises on who is sucking, but well narrated. Also calls out some execution and effort issues by a big-name offensive player.

Looking at this video again, I noticed some new things, Mone wasn't 2 gapping like I had originally thought, he's actually in a 2i technique and resposible for the playside A-gap, I think Barton originally covers the right gap but Mone makes such a pitiful effort to eat the space that it causes his gap to stay wide open, thus why it might look like Barton screwed up on the play, it's a little hard to tell without knowing everyone's gap responsibilities in that 2-4-5 alignment

 

[thegameq]

-Trying to convert 4-3 players into a 3-4 scheme hasn't really worked the best.

Can you explain this further for those of us that are unfamiliar with the intricacies of changing from a 4-3 to a 3-4.


Thanks

 

[Polk738]

Well, I'm not an expert by any means and I'm sure someone else will chime in but just for an example Poona Ford was a great breakout player in the old scheme, now he's getting rocked on most plays, he played more of the 1 tech, well now he is playing either the 5/3 tech role, ideally you would want someone who is VERY big VERY tall and VERY athletic, for that position in a 3-4, someone at least well over 6' and 300lbs, Poona is listed at 5'11 and 311lbs so he is probably too short or has short arms, (I don't know his arm length) BUT, Shelby Harris is listed at 289 and 6'2'' but he's from a 3-4 scheme so he has experience and understands the position better than most on that line.

-Trying to convert 4-3 players into a 3-4 scheme hasn't really worked the best

Can you explain this further for those of us that are unfamiliar with the intricacies of changing from a 4-3 to a 3-4.


Thanks

 

[GemCity]

Damn…he called our guys a “Kim Kardashian” (everyone can run through) defense.

 

[Seak]

People have amnesia around here. Going into the season. The defense was supposed to be the strength of the team.

They were a top 10 scoring defense as flawed as they were. And the new scheme, with the Additions of Nwosu and Harris was supposed to fix the pass rush and their abysmal 3rd down defense. And with Boom/Bust Wilson gone the defense would no longer be gassed, or so I was told.

It was supposed to be Pete reasserting his philosophy. They were going to run the ball and play great defense, while Geno managed the game.

Instead the exact opposite has taken place. Can't run the ball, can't play defense, and have gotten miraculous top 5 play from their career backup QB bailing out Pete once again in the W-L record of things.

This failure is.now.being passed off as they weren't supposed to be good anyway. As they waste another productive QB season.

Its been a weird year, Geno turned out a lot more solid then anybody thought.
That being said, not sure why Pete would get a lot credit for that, so agreed on that point.
I still like Pete as the head coach though, just whatever hes doing on (or not doing) with the defense side of things needs to change.
Been a lot of years, but maybe just bad trades and drafts have caught up with them on that side of the ball.

I think I'm on the side of just draft heavy for defense and roll with Geno on a realistic contract.
At least that will put to bed next year the debate of coach and scheme vs talent

 

[Ozzy]

They’ve done a bad job drafting on the defensive side and you can’t put that on the Wilson contract or because they pick around 20th the last few years. Woolen this last draft was an obvious home run, I hope they hit on a few more after re-evaluating their process(I think that means giving more freedom to John)

 

[toffee]

Do we are not, asking for a defense to give up less than 25 points a game isn't asking too much.

 

[knownone]

The defense was my biggest concern going into the season. But, of course, I worried about the pass defense and thought the run defense would be one of the unit's strengths. So it's still baffling to see them struggle to stop the run, especially considering what they've invested in the DL.

In hindsight, I guess it's not that shocking. Pete and John rolled the dice on being undersized and fast. And it looks great when the defensive line controls the point of attack, but when they can't and linemen get to the second level, we look small and weak.

 

[DomeHawk]

Maybe yes, but the whole reason this season has been as enjoyable as it has been for me is low expectations. Unfortunately, with the next three games being against top teams, reality may have come home to roost.

 

[SchadenfreudeHawk]

Well, according to Rob Staton….

“5. For all the talk of needing more talent on defense, here’s a quick reminder. Jordyn Brooks and LJ Collier were first round picks. Darrell Taylor and Boye Mafe were second round picks. Cody Barton is a third round pick. They paid to retain Poona Ford and Bryan Mone and Ford has the biggest cap-hit on the team this year. Uchenna Nwosu is the most expensive outside free agent they’ve ever signed. They re-signed Al Woods and brought back Quinton Jefferson. Next year, Jamal Adams and Quandre Diggs are set to account for $36m of Seattle’s cap space. Nwosu and Shelby Harris combine for $25m. This is a defense that has been built and frankly, resources have been squandered. That should be remembered as we discuss whether this is just a situation that can be fixed by these decision makers simply adding more players. They need to do a much better job than they have been doing.”

Some thoughts with the Seahawks season going south – Seahawks Draft Blog

seahawksdraftblog.com

Ppl don’t like Staton but is he really wrong here?

As usual, Staton is right on. He used to post on this board back in the day. Folks need to pay more attention to him. He's totally right.