Were we not allowed to win

[PlinytheCenter]

Aside from everything else, it didn't help that our special teams gave them 8 points.

 

[RichNhansom]

Aren't most officials prior judges or attorneys? Seems a non disclosure agreement could be pretty effective with them.

Theses are billionaires, in a multi billion dollar business that have some of the best attorneys on salary. If they decided to fudge the numbers, you can bet they could do it and keep it quiet.

The thing that bothers me more than anything else is the untold or uncounted yards and 1st downs lost with the penalties. A holding call on a 2 yard gain doesn't hurt as bad as a holding call on a 3rd down conversion that just went for 20 yards. Or a block in the back in O/T that loses 20 yards of field position. What about a P/i That converts a 3rd down and moves the opponent a short distance outside of field goal range. The 148 yards is only the amount assessed against us.

This isn't a Seahawk thing. It's a league thing.

The NFL is licensed as entertainment ( just like big time wresting) so unless the NFL itself wanted to investigate a game or an official, it's not going top happen.

Who knows what might be the influences. Parity? Owners? Vegas? All we really know is where there is smoke there is usually fire and the NFL officiating is pouring smoke like a chimney.

What other league has anywhere near this level of supposed ineptitude? This is suppose to be the highest level of officiating and the mistakes are far worse than any other sport at any level I have ever followed and it's not even close.

 

[bmorepunk]

Aren't most officials prior judges or attorneys? Seems a non disclosure agreement could be pretty effective with them.

There are 121 officials on the NFL salary. Six of them are lawyers. But maybe "most" means less than 5%.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

How did they send the message? Voice conference? Email? Text message?

Also, did they send the explanation to the officials like you wrote it? It seems excessive.

Are saying that the powers that be in the NFL Officiating don't communicate with game Officials during the week, leading up to the games, or that the Officials do not get QUESTIONED or CORRECTED for screwups they make....Ever?? :roll:

FACT: The Seahawks have gotten several "We're Sorry" letters, from NFL Heahquarters in the past for inept Officiated games in the past, Why?....Because the Officials had made game changing screwups.

^^ Now, KNOWING THIS^^ can you say without any doubt whatsoever, that there's no possibility of dishonesty or ineptitude with ANYONE tied to the Officiating of these games in the NFL?.........Yeah, Me Neither.

How can you bridge "communicate with game officials" to "dishonesty."

This is not unique to us, every team gets the apology letters........and every coach in the league works the officials, including Pete and his staff.

NEWSFLASH: NFL OFFICIALS ARE INCONSISTENT AND SUCK, SOME OF THEM SUCK A LOT. It's your job as a coach and player to recognize this, and prepare your players to deal with it.............and btw, Pete and his coaches are some of the best in the league at coaching up rules and how to play to the very edge of what's called and what's not called.

To think there's some league wide conspiracy against the Hawks? That's just insane. Get ahold of yourselves people.

I never said that it was a "conspiracy against the Hawks".....YOU DID.

There are Dishonest people all around us, and some,(believe it or not) even work for the NFL.
Do you also deny that there was ever such a thing as "Deflate Gate"

Crooked shit happens everywhere, all over the world........I believe that there's even such a thing as Crooked Refs. can you prove me wrong? NOPE.

Prove you wrong? You have to prove to me that there's some nefarious bias before I should have to prove anything. This is like a kid telling you the moon's made of cheese, prove it's not.

Why in the hell would refs give up a 200k per year gig, and even more why would the league allow the entire reputation of their sport that produces their owners BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars to be jeopardizes by crooked refs.

If there was even a sniff of this, the league would come down so hard on a ref they'd be in prison before next week.

So if you'd like to give me some statistical penalty anomalies that show the Hawks are penalizes FAR more than any other team in the league, and feel free to choose any time in our team's history..........over the rest of the league that shows some sort of crooked bias against us, I'm all ears.

Refs are bad at their jobs sometimes. There, I just explained it for you. They're old half blind mortal men that sometimes can't keep up with the speed of the game, and make rash incorrect decisions that can't be overturned. Sometimes those decisions seem to go against us in games (Niners game), and sometimes those decisions go for us (Fail Mary and Wagner leverage).

 

[lukerguy]

It looked that way to me. The NFL doesn't want teams clinching wild card spots in week 15... Then no one will watch in week 17. Did the refs actually think about this? I strongly doubt it but it was easily the worst reffing performance of the season and seemed like every time there was a big play it was negated by penalty in the 2nd half.

 

[Hollandhawk]

Are saying that the powers that be in the NFL Officiating don't communicate with game Officials during the week, leading up to the games, or that the Officials do not get QUESTIONED or CORRECTED for screwups they make....Ever?? :roll:

FACT: The Seahawks have gotten several "We're Sorry" letters, from NFL Heahquarters in the past for inept Officiated games in the past, Why?....Because the Officials had made game changing screwups.

^^ Now, KNOWING THIS^^ can you say without any doubt whatsoever, that there's no possibility of dishonesty or ineptitude with ANYONE tied to the Officiating of these games in the NFL?.........Yeah, Me Neither.

How can you bridge "communicate with game officials" to "dishonesty."

This is not unique to us, every team gets the apology letters........and every coach in the league works the officials, including Pete and his staff.

NEWSFLASH: NFL OFFICIALS ARE INCONSISTENT AND SUCK, SOME OF THEM SUCK A LOT. It's your job as a coach and player to recognize this, and prepare your players to deal with it.............and btw, Pete and his coaches are some of the best in the league at coaching up rules and how to play to the very edge of what's called and what's not called.

To think there's some league wide conspiracy against the Hawks? That's just insane. Get ahold of yourselves people.

I never said that it was a "conspiracy against the Hawks".....YOU DID.

There are Dishonest people all around us, and some,(believe it or not) even work for the NFL.
Do you also deny that there was ever such a thing as "Deflate Gate"

Crooked shit happens everywhere, all over the world........I believe that there's even such a thing as Crooked Refs. can you prove me wrong? NOPE.

Prove you wrong? You have to prove to me that there's some nefarious bias before I should have to prove anything. This is like a kid telling you the moon's made of cheese, prove it's not.

Why in the hell would refs give up a 200k per year gig, and even more why would the league allow the entire reputation of their sport that produces their owners BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars to be jeopardizes by crooked refs.

If there was even a sniff of this, the league would come down so hard on a ref they'd be in prison before next week.

So if you'd like to give me some statistical penalty anomalies that show the Hawks are penalizes FAR more than any other team in the league, and feel free to choose any time in our team's history..........over the rest of the league that shows some sort of crooked bias against us, I'm all ears.

Refs are bad at their jobs sometimes. There, I just explained it for you. They're old half blind mortal men that sometimes can't keep up with the speed of the game, and make rash incorrect decisions that can't be overturned. Sometimes those decisions seem to go against us in games (Niners game), and sometimes those decisions go for us (Fail Mary and Wagner leverage).

I agree with most of your post except the Golden Tate touchdown. It was the correct call.

 

[Seymour]

Prove you wrong? You have to prove to me that there's some nefarious bias before I should have to prove anything. This is like a kid telling you the moon's made of cheese, prove it's not.

I can do one better. I can prove it is made of cheese, and there was even a book written on it! :twisted: :2thumbs:

 

[Sgt. Largent]

How can you bridge "communicate with game officials" to "dishonesty."

This is not unique to us, every team gets the apology letters........and every coach in the league works the officials, including Pete and his staff.

NEWSFLASH: NFL OFFICIALS ARE INCONSISTENT AND SUCK, SOME OF THEM SUCK A LOT. It's your job as a coach and player to recognize this, and prepare your players to deal with it.............and btw, Pete and his coaches are some of the best in the league at coaching up rules and how to play to the very edge of what's called and what's not called.

To think there's some league wide conspiracy against the Hawks? That's just insane. Get ahold of yourselves people.

I never said that it was a "conspiracy against the Hawks".....YOU DID.

There are Dishonest people all around us, and some,(believe it or not) even work for the NFL.
Do you also deny that there was ever such a thing as "Deflate Gate"

Crooked shit happens everywhere, all over the world........I believe that there's even such a thing as Crooked Refs. can you prove me wrong? NOPE.

Prove you wrong? You have to prove to me that there's some nefarious bias before I should have to prove anything. This is like a kid telling you the moon's made of cheese, prove it's not.

Why in the hell would refs give up a 200k per year gig, and even more why would the league allow the entire reputation of their sport that produces their owners BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars to be jeopardizes by crooked refs.

If there was even a sniff of this, the league would come down so hard on a ref they'd be in prison before next week.

So if you'd like to give me some statistical penalty anomalies that show the Hawks are penalizes FAR more than any other team in the league, and feel free to choose any time in our team's history..........over the rest of the league that shows some sort of crooked bias against us, I'm all ears.

Refs are bad at their jobs sometimes. There, I just explained it for you. They're old half blind mortal men that sometimes can't keep up with the speed of the game, and make rash incorrect decisions that can't be overturned. Sometimes those decisions seem to go against us in games (Niners game), and sometimes those decisions go for us (Fail Mary and Wagner leverage).

I agree with most of your post except the Golden Tate touchdown. It was the correct call.

it was borderline, just like most of the calls last weekend in Santa Clara...........and just like most of the subjective ref calls in every game.

Penalties are subjective interpretations of the league's rules by a bunch of old dudes running around in striped shirts. It's not rocket science to understand that's not exactly a recipe for perfection.

To translate this to "refs are crooked" or "the league wants us to lose" is utter and complete nonsense........and frankly it should be embarrassing to any fanbase to entertain that opinion seriously.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Prove you wrong? You have to prove to me that there's some nefarious bias before I should have to prove anything. This is like a kid telling you the moon's made of cheese, prove it's not.

I can do one better. I can prove it is made of cheese, and there was even a book written on it! :twisted: :2thumbs:

Damn it.

 

[thegameq]

Questions for those "game steering believers".

Who exactly tells the refs to steer the game a certain direction and how do they decide this?

How is it that out of every fired and disgruntled former ref, nobody has ever come out and stated "the truth" that they are guided to make bad calls to keep a game close?

Do they let Las Vegas in on this or do they use the information to "steal" even more money from their betting customers?

Do you think the team coaches and owners are in on this, or are they just too stupid to see through this corruption?

What is the motive for the refs to cooperate with the corruption? Do they get a bonus for making it happen, job security, other favors, or does the NFL just make sure they only choose corrupt refs to begin with? (Keep in mind, 1 honest ref would blow the whole thing up!)

How did we manage to beat the corruption in 2013, and why are we now on "the wrong side" of the calls?

:snack:

We all know the refs are probably given criteria to "watch for" in certain games with certain teams and/or players, by the league. Let's say DB- A has been owning WR A all game long--usually by being really physical and disrupting timing, routes, etc. This has been going on all game long... everyone sees it...then all of a sudden in a big moment, BAM!! Pass Interference. Why? The DB has been playing that style of coverage all game long, why call it now?

The complexity of the game changes and a momentum swing occurs. What was looking like a lopsided affair or a close game suddenly changes. We've all seen this in the NBA Way too MANY TIMES TO EVEN COUNT. Wild swings by the refs from one extreme to the other in how they call fouls. Of course they call it "taking control of the game".

Again, it's not called out or exposed because everyone has become accustomed to it--and frankly it's big business. Why bite the hand that feeds you? Would any of us be so self-righteous and damage our lively-hood? We've all watched a professional sporting event where the officials got the calls so blatantly wrong and the announcers touched on it briefly and then went silent. I can remember quite a few Knicks games where the awkward silence from the announcers was telling. Same experience with NFL games.

There's also the entertainment aspect, which has quite frankly, overtaken the importance of the rules and such.

Anyway, on to Sunday night.

 

[bmorepunk]

Are saying that the powers that be in the NFL Officiating don't communicate with game Officials during the week, leading up to the games, or that the Officials do not get QUESTIONED or CORRECTED for screwups they make....Ever?? :roll:

FACT: The Seahawks have gotten several "We're Sorry" letters, from NFL Heahquarters in the past for inept Officiated games in the past, Why?....Because the Officials had made game changing screwups.

^^ Now, KNOWING THIS^^ can you say without any doubt whatsoever, that there's no possibility of dishonesty or ineptitude with ANYONE tied to the Officiating of these games in the NFL?.........Yeah, Me Neither.

No, I'm asking for the communication method for the alleged conspiracy. If this conspiracy exists, nobody has caught on to it with evidence, which means it would have to be locked down pretty tight with no loose ends. You don't do that through normal open channels.

Bad decisions and performance aren't the same as intentionally calling things incorrectly.

On the topic of whether there is "no possibility of dishonesty or ineptitude", I never said NFL officials don't make mistakes, so the second part isn't an argument, much like your second paragraph. And on "dishonesty", of course it's possible. It's just really improbable, especially when people are saying it's a full-on conspiracy involving the league and all the officials. It's possible I'm going to accidentally castrate myself today, but it is far from a likely event. It's possible we all live inside a simulation like The Matrix, but really unlikely.

If you had an official who was deliberately doing stuff for a profit motive, that has happened (at least one notable case in recent years in the NBA). But this idea that there is some sort of planned way things have to go in NFL games, both individually and throughout the season, and these crews are somehow in on it to steer this is absurdly unlikely. I probably have a better chance of getting hit by lightning today. And it's sunny.

This conspiracy stuff is dumb. But a lot of people strongly believe that the Earth isn't an oblate spheroid and the moon landing was staged.

 

[bmorepunk]

We all know the refs are probably given criteria to "watch for" in certain games with certain teams and/or players, by the league. Let's say DB- A has been owning WR A all game long--usually by being really physical and disrupting timing, routes, etc. This has been going on all game long... everyone sees it...then all of a sudden in a big moment, BAM!! Pass Interference. Why? The DB has been playing that style of coverage all game long, why call it now?

When is this done? When they first go through training? Is there a "watch for" refresher every week? Written guidance released to all the officials? How does this work? How do the officials know which teams and which players get what treatment?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

We all know the refs are probably given criteria to "watch for" in certain games with certain teams and/or players, by the league. Let's say DB- A has been owning WR A all game long--usually by being really physical and disrupting timing, routes, etc. This has been going on all game long... everyone sees it...then all of a sudden in a big moment, BAM!! Pass Interference. Why? The DB has been playing that style of coverage all game long, why call it now?

A completely reasonable take, and what I said earlier in the week about the Griffin penalty.

If we're pointing to the one biggest flaw with reffing in the NFL, it's inconsistency.

- Realize how you've been calling the game
- Know the moment in the game
- use discretion on ticky tack penalties

These are the things the league should be talking to the refs about on a weekly basis. No owner, player, coach or fan wants games decided by borderline ticky tack penalties. So why are so many games decided on these things?

It's an easy directive for the refs, if it's close, SWALLOW YOUR DAMN WHISTLE AND LET THE PLAYERS PLAY.

They know how to do this, because that's how they call games in the playoffs, looser. Why? Cause that's how the teams and players want it.........because they don't want controversial calls ruining their sport in the biggest time of the year.

So do the same damn thing during the regular season.

 

[thegameq]

I would guess some sort of weekly meeting or such. maybe a notification or something prior to receiving assignments. Maybe a weekly review of how the past weeks games went or something.

"you have been asssigned team A vs. team B. Team A or player B has been known to do this or that--keep an eye out for it."

Nothing to dramatic, just simple "be aware of this player/team". "Don't call it, just don't let it get out of hand". "if he keeps doing it call it, but not so much--just let him know you are aware".

They may sound minor but such an approach will have an effect on the outcome--it's impossible not to.

Announcers have mentioned this sort of thing all the time. Officials meeting or briefing or something.

 

[olyfan63]

While it felt to me that the game was being "steered", in the end, the NFL got what they wanted: A Sunday night matchup with two highly motivated teams and playoff implications.

In contrast, the game vs. the Chiefs was a delight to watch, two good teams going at it, great players making great plays, and only a minor impact on the game by the refs; the game was decided by players making plays on the field, with penalties playing a minor role, and certainly not deciding the game.

 

[Maulbert]

While it felt to me that the game was being "steered", in the end, the NFL got what they wanted: A Sunday night matchup with two highly motivated teams and playoff implications.

In contrast, the game vs. the Chiefs was a delight to watch, two good teams going at it, great players making great plays, and only a minor impact on the game by the refs; the game was decided by players making plays on the field, with penalties playing a minor role, and certainly not deciding the game.

You should see what's going on on the Chiefs forums, the way they're bitching about the reffing from this game. One of the Chief's fans referred to the ref who came across the field to call David Moore's catch a first down as '**** Suck McGee'.

 

[peppersjap]

While it felt to me that the game was being "steered", in the end, the NFL got what they wanted: A Sunday night matchup with two highly motivated teams and playoff implications.

In contrast, the game vs. the Chiefs was a delight to watch, two good teams going at it, great players making great plays, and only a minor impact on the game by the refs; the game was decided by players making plays on the field, with penalties playing a minor role, and certainly not deciding the game.

You should see what's going on on the Chiefs forums, the way they're bitching about the reffing from this game. One of the Chief's fans referred to the ref who came across the field to call David Moore's catch a first down as '**** Suck McGee'.

The thread I was reading on one of the Chiefs forums was about how Andy Reid was resting people because he knew they could beat the Raiders next week and the majority of the posters agreed. They only talked about defensive players. I seemed to have saw Mahomes, Kelcie and Hill out there the whole game. They need to learn to lose with some dignity, I might expect that from Patriot fans since they win and a lot but the Chiefs need to put together a little better resume before there fans get that cocky!

 

[RichNhansom]

While it felt to me that the game was being "steered", in the end, the NFL got what they wanted: A Sunday night matchup with two highly motivated teams and playoff implications.

In contrast, the game vs. the Chiefs was a delight to watch, two good teams going at it, great players making great plays, and only a minor impact on the game by the refs; the game was decided by players making plays on the field, with penalties playing a minor role, and certainly not deciding the game.

You should see what's going on on the Chiefs forums, the way they're bitching about the reffing from this game. One of the Chief's fans referred to the ref who came across the field to call David Moore's catch a first down as '**** Suck McGee'.

The thread I was reading on one of the Chiefs forums was about how Andy Reid was resting people because he knew they could beat the Raiders next week and the majority of the posters agreed. They only talked about defensive players. I seemed to have saw Mahomes, Kelcie and Hill out there the whole game. They need to learn to lose with some dignity, I might expect that from Patriot fans since they win and a lot but the Chiefs need to put together a little better resume before there fans get that cocky!

I was going to ask Maulbert to provide a link because I went to a couple Chiefs forums to see if they blamed the officiating and only saw what pepper saw.

It's pretty sad that even in a game we won, that seemed to have no influence by the officials, you still wonder if it was.

 

[Maulbert]

While it felt to me that the game was being "steered", in the end, the NFL got what they wanted: A Sunday night matchup with two highly motivated teams and playoff implications.

In contrast, the game vs. the Chiefs was a delight to watch, two good teams going at it, great players making great plays, and only a minor impact on the game by the refs; the game was decided by players making plays on the field, with penalties playing a minor role, and certainly not deciding the game.

You should see what's going on on the Chiefs forums, the way they're bitching about the reffing from this game. One of the Chief's fans referred to the ref who came across the field to call David Moore's catch a first down as '**** Suck McGee'.

The thread I was reading on one of the Chiefs forums was about how Andy Reid was resting people because he knew they could beat the Raiders next week and the majority of the posters agreed. They only talked about defensive players. I seemed to have saw Mahomes, Kelcie and Hill out there the whole game. They need to learn to lose with some dignity, I might expect that from Patriot fans since they win and a lot but the Chiefs need to put together a little better resume before there fans get that cocky!

I was going to ask Maulbert to provide a link because I went to a couple Chiefs forums to see if they blamed the officiating and only saw what pepper saw.

It's pretty sad that even in a game we won, that seemed to have no influence by the officials, you still wonder if it was.

Check towards the end of this thread:

https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=319800

Also, check the posts here from after the game ended:

https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=305357&page=241

BTW, here's the specific post I referenced:

https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=13984471&postcount=3615

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I doubt I'm the only one who immediately though, after the long pass to Lockett......about how convenient it was that almost the same exact play was called back at Santa Clara.