Where does the Alex Smith trade leave us with Flynn?

[BBHawks]

Love this move for the Seahawks. I don't care what it means in terms of Flynn, because frankly I don't care where he plays next year.

What I care about is that the 49ers just traded a proven QB. That although stuggled early in his career, really came on over the last two years. For Colin Kaepernick.

But... but Kaepernick is a super bowl qb... NO HE ISN'T. Teams struggled to adjust to his style of play last year except Seattle, St. Louis and Baltimore. He is an athletic guy with get speed and a great OLine. But, he has fast ball and no second pitch. He never looks off his first read. Teams will game plan for him better next year. Think Cam Newton last year.

All the ESPN love comes from the fact that the kid has a few top 10 plays. Watch the throwing mechanics. Watch his feet under pressure. Watch his eyes, they don't move. Love that he is the future in SF, with no safety net.

So the rest of the league is going to adjust to Kaepernick, but Kaepernick isn't going to get better? The reason Kaep runs in straight lines is because you don't have the juke what's behind you as he is faster than most defenders, and usually burns them to the outside before turning STRAIGHT upfield. Besides he isn't a "running" QB, he is a QB that runs as he has proven that he can win with his arm plenty. I think that you are seeing what you want to see with your "never" statements as well.

I will put into perspective. If i had a choice between any of the "athletic" QB's ie. Newton, Kap, Wilson, and RG3. I would take Kap last, and wouldn't think twice about it.

This isn't a 49ers thing. He could play for the Chargers or Bengals I don't care. You give me a qb with his skill set. His ability to read defenses. I would not risk my team (which is a super bowl talented team) giving him the reins.

He is going to play well against bad defenes because he stretchs your defense out. But when you talk about QB's improving I look at what he can do, when things are taken away. ie St. Louis and Seattle.

As a example, if I were a Def. Coordinator facing Russel Wilson, how do I limit him? Take away the option? or rush up the middle to disrupt sight lines? He has enough strengths that he is adaptable.

Kap struggles in two fundamental areas. One, in progression, and two, he lowers his eyes to quickly. Sure those are only two issues, but historically are two that are very hard to overcome. Look at David Carr, Tim Couch, Brady Quinn. All first target throwers, like Kap.

Find me one first target thrower that developed into a great pro? I understand that none of them were as atheletic as Kap, but eventually defenses will catch up.

I hate to be the guy who points this out because I love Wilson, but Kaepernick is not a one read guy. I watched him closely in their Packers and Falcons playoff games and he goes through his reads in the pocket. I think you're underestimating Kaepernick's talent. And, as far as Wilson is concerned, I think he has more raw talent and a better feel for the game, but you're forgetting the most probable way defenses will scheme for him next season - try to take advantage of his height disadvantage by trying to confine him to the pocket and keeping their hands up.

 

[Paschtorian]

Flynn will receive little interest,....

...then re-structure his contract for the remainder, and give the Seahawks some spending room.

I mean,.........dude got like ten million to stand on the sidelines last year.

He ought to be (a little) appreciative.

 

[Lady Talon]

The facts don't bear out Kaepernick progressing through reads. With bigger names across the board at WR and TE then Russell Wilson had to work with, Kaepernick, in his 10 starts, still targeted Crabtree 55 MORE times then any other QB/WR tandem in the league. Five targets per game above such threats as Megatron, Welker, Brandon Marshall, AJ Green, etc. lol.

He threw into Crabtree's double coverage 3 times in their Superbowl goal line failure and paid the price, ignoring a wide open Moss once, and changing a run play just to throw Crabs into helmet to helmet and holding no calls.

You can't 1 read much better then Kaepernick displayed in all of his starts.

 

[BBHawks]

Love this move for the Seahawks. I don't care what it means in terms of Flynn, because frankly I don't care where he plays next year.

What I care about is that the 49ers just traded a proven QB. That although stuggled early in his career, really came on over the last two years. For Colin Kaepernick.

But... but Kaepernick is a super bowl qb... NO HE ISN'T. Teams struggled to adjust to his style of play last year except Seattle, St. Louis and Baltimore. He is an athletic guy with get speed and a great OLine. But, he has fast ball and no second pitch. He never looks off his first read. Teams will game plan for him better next year. Think Cam Newton last year.

All the ESPN love comes from the fact that the kid has a few top 10 plays. Watch the throwing mechanics. Watch his feet under pressure. Watch his eyes, they don't move. Love that he is the future in SF, with no safety net.

Okay, I'm as big a homer as anyone around here, but I have to wonder what you're thinking here. First of all, you're saying that Niners QB isn't a Super Bowl qb, but he just finished a Super Bowl where he laid 29 points on the Ravens and was the first QB since I think Montana to throw for more than 300 yards and run for over 50 yards in a Super Bowl. We need to get real here. This kid is going to be our biggest challenge for years to come. He's got a lot more than one pitch and he goes through his reads as well as anyone. None of us should have any illusions about this. Yes, if I had my choice, I'd take Wilson any day, but Kaepernick is a lot better than you're thinking.

 

[BBHawks]

The facts don't bear out Kaepernick progressing through reads. With bigger names across the board at WR and TE then Russell Wilson had to work with, Kaepernick, in his 10 starts, still targeted Crabtree 55 MORE times then any other QB/WR tandem in the league. Five targets per game above such threats as Megatron, Welker, Brandon Marshall, AJ Green, etc. lol.

He threw into Crabtree's double coverage 3 times in their Superbowl goal line failure and paid the price, ignoring a wide open Moss once, and changing a run play just to throw Crabs into helmet to helmet and holding no calls.

You can't 1 read much better then Kaepernick displayed in all of his starts.

He had two 100 yard receivers - Crabtree and Davis. And let's not fool ourselves here. By the second half of their season, Crabtree was their only productive wide receiver. We've got Tate, Rice, Baldwin -- all of which are better than anyone who was behind Crabtree.

 

[Lady Talon]

He was doing this with Manningham in the lineup. And he was a better name and receiver statistically then either Tate or Baldwin before Seattle ended his season. Moss may have lost three steps but he's nothing to sneeze at, he just gets ignored. Vernon Davis and his backup are better receiving tandems by far then MCoy and Miller, and VD wants the ball badly.

I dont care if VD had 100 yards in the Superbowl, Crabs was still over targeted, especially considering the last drive. If the Ravens didn't know he was going to be targeted why would they sell out to cover him and blitz and leave Moss and a freak like VD in single coverage? RW would have shredded such a gamble, 9 times out of 10.

94 targets in 10 starts to Crabtree, 55 more then anyone else in a 10 game period, considering Megatron broke Rice's single season receiving yards record, that says something. Who else did Detroit at WR with Burleson and Young on IR?

 

[ivotuk]

The price on Flynn just went up! If they can get what is basically a first round pick of a 29 year old QB with minimal success, and only in a structured system, we can get a similar pick for a QB with less wear and tear and one the set the TD record for Green Bay in only his second outing. Matt Flynn set the record that Brett Favre never reached and Aaron Rodgers only after years, recently reached.

There is a lot of potential in Flynn and I think many people wrongly denigrate his talent because of limited reps. Remember, he was beat out by a QB that led the NFL in the 2nd half of the season, a QB that led this team to 12-6 on the year! The QB who matched Peyton Manning's rookie record for TDs, except without all the INTs that "fetus head" threw.

 

[HawkWow]

Spohawk started a thread suggesting a trade between us and Minnesota (Flynn for Webb) should be food for thought. He was chastised if not rediculed for that thread. The general consensus being that "Minnesota fans are happy with Ponder". I know a helluva lot of Vike fans and I'd say none of them are exactly "happy with Ponder". The opposite would be a truer statement.

I like Spohawk's idea..a lot. The problem is, IMO, Flynn and Ponder are much a like. But considering the Vikes obviously scouted Ponder very well, they may want to bring in Flynn and let them compete.

Webb? I think Webb would be an ideal back-up to RW. I'd be happy to give Minnesota Flynn, our 2nd and 5th, for Webb and Harvin. I'd also like to slip a poison pill in there somewhere on 'em, too.

 

[BBHawks]

He was doing this with Manningham in the lineup. And he was a better name and receiver statistically then either Tate or Baldwin before Seattle ended his season. Moss may have lost three steps but he's nothing to sneeze at, he just gets ignored. Vernon Davis and his backup are better receiving tandems by far then MCoy and Miller, and VD wants the ball badly.

I dont care if VD had 100 yards in the Superbowl, Crabs was still over targeted, especially considering the last drive. If the Ravens didn't know he was going to be targeted why would they sell out to cover him and blitz and leave Moss and a freak like VD in single coverage? RW would have shredded such a gamble, 9 times out of 10.

94 targets in 10 starts to Crabtree, 55 more then anyone else in a 10 game period, considering Megatron broke Rice's single season receiving yards record, that says something. Who else did Detroit at WR with Burleson and Young on IR?

You know, I hope you're right, but I've got a bad feeling that Seahawks fans are underestimating Kaepernick based on that ass-kicking last season here at home. He obviously trusts Crabtree and threw to him a lot, but those were just his first 9 or 10 starts. I think he's a lot better than people around here think and he's going to be a real challenge for our defense.

 

[The Radish]

The facts don't bear out Kaepernick progressing through reads. With bigger names across the board at WR and TE then Russell Wilson had to work with, Kaepernick, in his 10 starts, still targeted Crabtree 55 MORE times then any other QB/WR tandem in the league. Five targets per game above such threats as Megatron, Welker, Brandon Marshall, AJ Green, etc. lol.

He threw into Crabtree's double coverage 3 times in their Superbowl goal line failure and paid the price, ignoring a wide open Moss once, and changing a run play just to throw Crabs into helmet to helmet and holding no calls.

You can't 1 read much better then Kaepernick displayed in all of his starts.

Boy if there's anything that will ruin a sports board its some woman that appears to know what she's talking about!!

 

[Seahawker86]

I know people have been talking about it already but Colin Kap isn't that good of a QB. Someone mentioned about his eyes not moving, his foot work is bad. The Seahawks aren't scared of him. He can't beat good defenses. I'm not scared, im actually happy b/c he will get hurt and they will have no one to back him up. Seahawks are taking this division, we would have taken the #2 seed if it wasn't for Jeff Fisher forgetting to call time out. We would have went to the Superbowl. Next year is our year. Everyone knows it. Looking forward to the draft. GO HAWKS!

 

[HawkWow]

He was doing this with Manningham in the lineup. And he was a better name and receiver statistically then either Tate or Baldwin before Seattle ended his season. Moss may have lost three steps but he's nothing to sneeze at, he just gets ignored. Vernon Davis and his backup are better receiving tandems by far then MCoy and Miller, and VD wants the ball badly.

I dont care if VD had 100 yards in the Superbowl, Crabs was still over targeted, especially considering the last drive. If the Ravens didn't know he was going to be targeted why would they sell out to cover him and blitz and leave Moss and a freak like VD in single coverage? RW would have shredded such a gamble, 9 times out of 10.

94 targets in 10 starts to Crabtree, 55 more then anyone else in a 10 game period, considering Megatron broke Rice's single season receiving yards record, that says something. Who else did Detroit at WR with Burleson and Young on IR?

You know, I hope you're right, but I've got a bad feeling that Seahawks fans are underestimating Kaepernick based on that ass-kicking last season here at home. He obviously trusts Crabtree and threw to him a lot, but those were just his first 9 or 10 starts. I think he's a lot better than people around here think and he's going to be a real challenge for our defense.

I agree 100%. Let's not start packing for the SB just yet. With the addition of the 34th pick, the Niners are poised to fill the (very) few holes they have...and we still can't get to the QB. They may likely add Revis and contrary to what people are suddenly thinking of Revis, his addition would make them hell to score on.

This next year, IMO, will come down to the wire yet again. I think we split with them. If we can't win the division and HFA, I think SF represents the NFC again. That would suck. A lot.

 

[lukerguy]

Report: 'Hawks won't cut Flynn; open to trade
Appearing on Total Access, NFL Network's Ian Rapoport says the Seahawks will not release Matt Flynn, but they are open to trading him.
Seattle's "priority" is to have Flynn be the backup to Russell Wilson, but "they know Flynn does want to be a starter in the league." He was held out for a part of training camp last season with "soreness" in his throwing elbow, and Rapoport says teams have had questions regarding the elbow. Two sources told Rapoport that the elbow is "absolutely fine," and should the Seahawks trade Flynn, he mentions the Jaguars, Browns, and Jets as possibilities

 

[Lady Talon]

He was doing this with Manningham in the lineup. And he was a better name and receiver statistically then either Tate or Baldwin before Seattle ended his season. Moss may have lost three steps but he's nothing to sneeze at, he just gets ignored. Vernon Davis and his backup are better receiving tandems by far then MCoy and Miller, and VD wants the ball badly.

I dont care if VD had 100 yards in the Superbowl, Crabs was still over targeted, especially considering the last drive. If the Ravens didn't know he was going to be targeted why would they sell out to cover him and blitz and leave Moss and a freak like VD in single coverage? RW would have shredded such a gamble, 9 times out of 10.

94 targets in 10 starts to Crabtree, 55 more then anyone else in a 10 game period, considering Megatron broke Rice's single season receiving yards record, that says something. Who else did Detroit at WR with Burleson and Young on IR?

You know, I hope you're right, but I've got a bad feeling that Seahawks fans are underestimating Kaepernick based on that ass-kicking last season here at home. He obviously trusts Crabtree and threw to him a lot, but those were just his first 9 or 10 starts. I think he's a lot better than people around here think and he's going to be a real challenge for our defense.

I'm not saying he's terrible and going to fail completely next season, but there's some things he'll have to clean up to progress. #1 is his reads, if he continues sending Crabs double the targets of Megatron or Brandon Marshall, then it doesn't matter what the Niners do in the draft or FA to give him more receiving options. Its relatively easy to limit a passing offense with that type of lock-on on one man.

Second, he's going to have to trust Gore more and get a rushing attack going. Gore is the player to be feared in the 49er offense, not Kaepernick. Kaepernick legs and arms alone will never sustain drives, especially against quality teams with top 5 defenses and dangerous offenses. Going to have to stop kissing his bicep and let Gore make some plays and break his 1 read lock on.

Now that they don't have AS to step in and run the offense like the ball control powerhouse it was designed to be, Kap's going to have to settle down and improve himself to run it.

I don't hate him, but I'm not buying into the ESPN/NFLN mantra that he's the prototypical NFL QB of the future either. He has significant problems that rear their head against quality defenses.

 

[Lady Talon]

The facts don't bear out Kaepernick progressing through reads. With bigger names across the board at WR and TE then Russell Wilson had to work with, Kaepernick, in his 10 starts, still targeted Crabtree 55 MORE times then any other QB/WR tandem in the league. Five targets per game above such threats as Megatron, Welker, Brandon Marshall, AJ Green, etc. lol.

He threw into Crabtree's double coverage 3 times in their Superbowl goal line failure and paid the price, ignoring a wide open Moss once, and changing a run play just to throw Crabs into helmet to helmet and holding no calls.

You can't 1 read much better then Kaepernick displayed in all of his starts.

Boy if there's anything that will ruin a sports board its some woman that appears to know what she's talking about!!

Aw Radish, aren't you just a flirt?

 

[Disp]

94 targets in 10 starts to Crabtree, 55 more then anyone else in a 10 game period, considering Megatron broke Rice's single season receiving yards record, that says something. Who else did Detroit at WR with Burleson and Young on IR?

The facts don't bear out Kaepernick progressing through reads. With bigger names across the board at WR and TE then Russell Wilson had to work with, Kaepernick, in his 10 starts, still targeted Crabtree 55 MORE times then any other QB/WR tandem in the league. Five targets per game above such threats as Megatron, Welker, Brandon Marshall, AJ Green, etc. lol.

He threw into Crabtree's double coverage 3 times in their Superbowl goal line failure and paid the price, ignoring a wide open Moss once, and changing a run play just to throw Crabs into helmet to helmet and holding no calls.

You can't 1 read much better then Kaepernick displayed in all of his starts.

Boy if there's anything that will ruin a sports board its some woman that appears to know what she's talking about!!

Well don't get too excited, because she pulled some completely random numbers out of a hat. 94 targets over a 10 game period expands to 150 over a 16 game season. If that's the metric for qualifying a 1 read quarterback who relies on throwing to a single receiver too often, then I guess we need to say the same thing for...

Stafford
Brady
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning
Brees
Luck
Romo
Dalton
Fitzpatrick
Schaub
Freeman
Ryan
Gabbert
Cutler

Who all had a receiver within 1 attempt/game average compared to Crabtree/Kaepernick. I have no idea where she pulled out that 94 targets was 55 more than any other receiver in a 10 game period. You realize by that math the 2'nd highest targeted receiver would have had about 75 targets and under 50 receptions over the entire season right? As far as the rest, it's all opinion, and I won't debate any of it. But at least be accountable for statistics you pan off as facts.

Also, Manningham played only 1 full game with Kaepernick, against the Bears.

 

[Lady Talon]

94 targets in 10 starts to Crabtree, 55 more then anyone else in a 10 game period, considering Megatron broke Rice's single season receiving yards record, that says something. Who else did Detroit at WR with Burleson and Young on IR?

The facts don't bear out Kaepernick progressing through reads. With bigger names across the board at WR and TE then Russell Wilson had to work with, Kaepernick, in his 10 starts, still targeted Crabtree 55 MORE times then any other QB/WR tandem in the league. Five targets per game above such threats as Megatron, Welker, Brandon Marshall, AJ Green, etc. lol.

He threw into Crabtree's double coverage 3 times in their Superbowl goal line failure and paid the price, ignoring a wide open Moss once, and changing a run play just to throw Crabs into helmet to helmet and holding no calls.

You can't 1 read much better then Kaepernick displayed in all of his starts.

Boy if there's anything that will ruin a sports board its some woman that appears to know what she's talking about!!

Well don't get too excited, because she pulled some completely random numbers out of a hat. 94 targets over a 10 game period expands to 150 over a 16 game season. If that's the metric for qualifying a 1 read quarterback who relies on throwing to a single receiver too often, then I guess we need to say the same thing for...

Stafford
Brady
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning
Brees
Luck
Romo
Dalton
Fitzpatrick
Schaub
Freeman
Ryan
Gabbert

Who all had a receiver within 1 attempt/game average compared to Crabtree/Kaepernick. I have no idea where she pulled out that 94 targets was 55 more than any other receiver in a 10 game period. You realize by that math the 2'nd highest targeted receiver would have had about 75 targets and under 50 receptions over the entire season right? As far as the rest, it's all opinion, and I won't debate any of it. But at least be accountable for statistics you pan off as facts.

Also, Manningham played only 1 full game with Kaepernick, against the Bears.

Actually that +55 targets part is a bit out there. I'll have to find that page again, see where I went wrong. That stat is likely wrong, but I'm not incapable of admitting and then correcting myself showing my ass based on a stat error, thanks.

94 targets to Crabtree and the next being 39 each to Davis and Moss. Half of Davis' coming in the Championship because the Falcons are terrible against TE's and the SB, he all but disappeared in the other 8 starts. Textbook 1 read. Even in post games, Kap reflected he should have thrown into Crabs double coverage instead of Davis or Moss in key situations cause they didn't come down with the ball, probably shocked they were thrown to. lol.

Crabtree falls on his route, Davis drops a poor pass. Kaepernick postgame: Wishes Crabtree wouldn't have fallen so I wouldn't have had to throw a bad pass to Davis. Come on.

Just as a comparison, Wilson's top 3 receivers were within 12 receptions of each other. Griffins top 4 receivers were all within 10 receptions. Newton's top 2 were within 4 catches. Kaepernick rode the bench for a year and a half studying NFL defenses and logging backup reps before Smith went down. He spent the time making sure that when he got his chance to start he looked more like a college passer then 2 rookies (one that had to win his spot over a veteran and had his offensive playbook limited) and Newton?

 

[BBHawks]

I know people have been talking about it already but Colin Kap isn't that good of a QB. Someone mentioned about his eyes not moving, his foot work is bad. The Seahawks aren't scared of him. He can't beat good defenses. I'm not scared, im actually happy b/c he will get hurt and they will have no one to back him up. Seahawks are taking this division, we would have taken the #2 seed if it wasn't for Jeff Fisher forgetting to call time out. We would have went to the Superbowl. Next year is our year. Everyone knows it. Looking forward to the draft. GO HAWKS!

Okay, I'm tired of talking about him so I'll quit at least for a while. I'd rather think about what we can do with Russell Wilson, but people, you've got to wake up around here and smell the roses. There is a lot of wishful thinking going on around here. "He can't beat good defenses"??!! Really? Are the Ravens what you'd call "good?" He just laid 29 points on them, 300 yards passing and over 50 yards rushing. Please. His QB rating for the first 8 games of his career was one of the highest in the history of the league. I'm absolutely positive that Pete and his crew are not sitting around convincing themselves that Colin Kaepernick "isn't that good of a QB." I'm sure Pete is already studying film on the guy. And, he's not a "running quarterback." That's a widely held myth. He evidently ran on designed running plays less than 3% of the time. He's a pocket passer who can take off real fast if the pocket breaks down. Another myth: he's got only the fastball. Sorry, that's just wrong. If you watched their playoff game against the Packers, you have to know that's just not the case. He's also the most accurate passer for passes going over 40 yards in the league last year. I admit that Lady Talon is right about him concentrating on Crabtree, but having watched him play, I don't really think that's because he's not going through his reads. Okay, enough. I'm not a fan. I just respect his game. And, I'm not going to make any friends around here for this opinion, but I think Kaepernick and Wilson have different games but all in all, are about equally impressive.

And, everybody does NOT know next year is our year. We HOPE next year is our year. Next year could be our year. But, the Seahawks are going to be playing in the toughest division in the NFL. The Niners and the Rams are for real and deserve respect. I've still got family down in the Bay Area and I'll tell you people something. They've got a lot more respect for the Seahawks down there than you think. They've got a lot more respect for the Hawks down there than I see for the Niners up here. I think the Seahawks are going to win the division next year and the key is playing the title game at home. If that happens, I think the Seahawks are going all the way. But I don't think anything is a given and I don't think it's going to be easy.

 

[Disp]

Actually that +55 targets part is a bit out there. I'll have to find that page again, see where I went wrong. That stat is likely wrong, but I'm not incapable of admitting and then correcting myself showing my ass based on a stat error, thanks.

94 targets to Crabtree and the next being 39 each to Davis and Moss. Half of Davis' coming in the Championship because the Falcons are terrible against TE's and the SB, he all but disappeared in the other 8 starts. Textbook 1 read. Even in post games, Kap reflected he should have thrown into Crabs double coverage instead of Davis or Moss in key situations cause they didn't come down with the ball, probably shocked they were thrown to. lol.

Crabtree falls on his route, Davis drops a poor pass. Kaepernick postgame: Wishes Crabtree wouldn't have fallen so I wouldn't have had to throw a bad pass to Davis. Come on.

It's well documented from both Kaepernick and Davis that their timing and chemistry was off and then started clicking in the postseason. Surprisingly enough, it wasn't unexpected with a brand new qb, offensive philosophy, and playcalling inserted midway through the season. Look at Gore; his production fell off a cliff once Kapernick came in because he couldn't grasp the pistol offense and read option until the postseason. The #3 receiver behind Grandpa Moss was Ted Ginn, who is so bad he barely even qualifies as a WR, and Delanie Walker dropped 35% of the passes thrown to him last season, by far the highest rate of any WR/TR in the league. What you're doing is creating hyperbole based on an inexperienced qb forcing a couple throws to his most trusted and reliable receiver in the most pressure filled drive of the year with 110 million eyes watching.

Just as a comparison, Wilson's top 3 receivers were within 12 receptions of each other. Griffins top 4 receivers were all within 10 receptions. Newton's top 2 were within 4 catches. Kaepernick rode the bench for a year and a half studying NFL defenses and logging backup reps before Smith went down. He spent the time making sure that when he got his chance to start he looked more like a college passer then 2 rookies (one that had to win his spot over a veteran and had his offensive playbook limited) and Newton?

Look, that statement means absolutely nothing. I just posted a stat sheet showing every single good qb in the league other than RG3, Rodgers, and Wilson targeting their favorite receiver just as often. Brady targeted Welker 44 more times than Lloyd, who was targeted 46 more times than Hernandez. Are you calling Brady a 1 read qb, or is he just throwing it to the guy he trusts more often?

You're picking at bones, and your supporting evidence is ridiculous. I won't comment further though because it wasn't my goal to stir stuff up with you guys.

 

[Rat]

Crabtree is really, really good, and never drops a thing. If he was on our team, I hope Russell would be targeting him all the time.