Will Goff Make Rams a Contender

[Ramfan128]

These beat writers have to have something to talk about I guess....but...

Of course we're not contenders right now - no team starting a rookie QB is an actual contender. We could easily do what the Seahawks did Wilson's rookie year....

If the West was still that bad. Unfortunately for us, it's not. We're dealing with two legit superbowl contender, whereas Seattle was dealing with one for Wilson's rookie year....and that "contender" was sporting Alex Smith at QB...

Given our situation, I expect somewhere between 6-10 to 9-7, while showing improvement on offense and defense. But our travel schedule is the worst in the NFL and everything considered, this is going to be tough.

When people say that team is a QB away, rookies really don't apply here. Rookie QBs have barely ever even won playoff games....Wilson played another rookie (and had a top defense), Big Ben's team carried him. Just doesn't happen often.

If we were in the NFC East I'd probably feel like we could win that division. But as it is, going to be tough. Next year is when we will start being a contender, and that's what the expectation is realistically...whether you want Fisher gone or not, it's unlikely that Kroenke fires him when there are so many variables working against us here.

 

[Popeyejones]

I agree RGIII ruined his own career because he didn't have the brains to get out of bounds or go down, and that RG3's success most definitely proved unsustainable, but that shouldn't relate to ROY should it? Both RGIII and Russell benefited from the bubble created when the read/zone QBs were ahead of defenses their first year. Russ showed flashes of clutch and was a superior skill passer from the start (IMO), but Russ was on a team that could afford to bring him along slowly, which is what they did. RGIII didn't have that advantage.

If we went back in time 100% of Skins fans would take Russell over RGIII in terms of who ended up being the better player, but in terms of that first year RGIII had to be a bigger part of the offense.

Well stated. Totally agree.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Our defense was not at all elite in 2011, and nobody knew it'd take such a big jump in 2012. I highly doubt Pete Carroll planned the beginning of Russell Wilson's career on the assumption that the defense would always be stellar. I'm pretty damned sure that Carroll was going to bring Wilson's development along the same way regardless of how the defense performed. He is, quite simply, not the kind of coach that is going to risk doing the wrong thing with what he thinks is a stud QB in the making from a 2012 perspective.

 

[hawk45]

Our defense was not at all elite in 2011, and nobody knew it'd take such a big jump in 2012. I highly doubt Pete Carroll planned the beginning of Russell Wilson's career on the assumption that the defense would always be stellar. I'm pretty damned sure that Carroll was going to bring Wilson's development along the same way regardless of how the defense performed. He is, quite simply, not the kind of coach that is going to risk doing the wrong thing with what he thinks is a stud QB in the making from a 2012 perspective.

With respect to an ROY discussion between the two quarterbacks, it doesn't matter why he was brought along slowly, and whether he would still have been developed slowly sans defense and rushing attack. Although there is no way to know for certain, for the sake of argument I withdraw any suggestion that being able to "afford" bringing Russell along slowly due to defense and rushing attack impacted Pete's decision.

The salient point to this discussion is, it is an historical fact that he was brought along slowly, and that RGIII was brought along less-slowly, leading to greater numbers and more burden on RGIII during his rookie season, and thus a justifiable ROY status and interminable run-on sentence from this poster.

Neither the sustainability of RGIII's success after his rookie season nor Pete's mindset while bringing Russell along slowly during that rookie season provide meaningful context when the topic is ROY, IMO.

But truly, ROY can often be a booby-prize, and it certainly proved so for RGIII. To me, his winning of ROY actually flavors things enjoyably for me given how their respective careers unfolded.

 

[rideaducati]

How did they misspell the 2012 ROY winner as Robert Griffin?

He didn't deserve it at the time, and with hindsight, everybody now KNOWS he didn't deserve it, either.

Not just Wilson bias speaking. The skill for what they had him doing on the field was just simply at a lower level than what Wilson was doing most of the time.

Alas, however, it takes time for people to get over college media hype for new NFL players...

:lol: at using hindsight to look at a ROY award.

RG3 had a spectacular rookie season. Just because the Redskins ruined his career thereafter doesn't make him any less deserving of that award as a rookie. He took a bad Redskins team and made them a playoff team. The Seahawks were a decent QB away from being really good and that's what Wilson brought.

RG3 put up 4000 yards of total offense, 27 TD and only 5 INT - on a team that finished 5-11 the year before.

So yes, this post is absolutely just Wilson bias speaking. RG3 deserved ROY.

Jesus, I didn't realize you had succumbed to the RGKnee hype, too; I thought that was just Luck for you.

Look - the Redskins deserve some of that blame for sure. RGKnee deserves plenty himself for running so often and so dangerously all the damn time. It's a miracle he lasted as long as he did in his rookie season. It was never sustainable, and plenty of people pointed that out at the time. Look at how RW has always run compared to how RGKnee always has. The simplicity of most of a lot of what RGKnee was doing on offense wasn't stellar, it was the NFL working on getting adjusted to running QBs and a lot of read-option.

Keep on basing conclusions on glancing at stat lines, however. I wouldn't want to interrupt that.

He probably thinks Baalke deserved GMOY too. Baalke and Bob have shown their true worth since fraudulently obtaining those awards.

 

[Largent80]

Doctor says "turn your head and Goff".

 

[Hasselbeck]

How did they misspell the 2012 ROY winner as Robert Griffin?

He didn't deserve it at the time, and with hindsight, everybody now KNOWS he didn't deserve it, either.

Not just Wilson bias speaking. The skill for what they had him doing on the field was just simply at a lower level than what Wilson was doing most of the time.

Alas, however, it takes time for people to get over college media hype for new NFL players...

:lol: at using hindsight to look at a ROY award.

RG3 had a spectacular rookie season. Just because the Redskins ruined his career thereafter doesn't make him any less deserving of that award as a rookie. He took a bad Redskins team and made them a playoff team. The Seahawks were a decent QB away from being really good and that's what Wilson brought.

RG3 put up 4000 yards of total offense, 27 TD and only 5 INT - on a team that finished 5-11 the year before.

So yes, this post is absolutely just Wilson bias speaking. RG3 deserved ROY.

Jesus, I didn't realize you had succumbed to the RGKnee hype, too; I thought that was just Luck for you.

Look - the Redskins deserve some of that blame for sure. RGKnee deserves plenty himself for running so often and so dangerously all the damn time. It's a miracle he lasted as long as he did in his rookie season. It was never sustainable, and plenty of people pointed that out at the time. Look at how RW has always run compared to how RGKnee always has. The simplicity of most of a lot of what RGKnee was doing on offense wasn't stellar, it was the NFL working on getting adjusted to running QBs and a lot of read-option.

Keep on basing conclusions on glancing at stat lines, however. I wouldn't want to interrupt that.

But much of your argument on why he doesn't deserve it is what happened AFTER his rookie season. Of course Russell has turned into the better player, and of course the read-option caught a lot of teams by surprise and benefitted RG3 (btw Wilson gouged teams with that same offense.. but why criticize him for it?) but that's completely irrelevant to that season when RG3 was phenomenal on a bad team. That Redskins team doesn't sniff the playoffs without RG3, our defense on the other hand carried Tarvaris Jackson and Charlie Whitehurst to 7-9.. clearly the talent disparity between the two teams was huge. Also RW had a miserably slow start to the year, nearly got benched, then got hot late. RG3 was pretty consistent from day one.

Of course, this is .NET where Russell Wilson has had the 4 best seasons of all-time and giving credit to anyone else is seen as treason by some of you guys. :lol:

 

[Hasselbeck]

He probably thinks Baalke deserved GMOY too. Baalke and Bob have shown their true worth since fraudulently obtaining those awards.

Again - you can't look at events that happened after a yearly award was given out. It's absurd.

And I've said many times JS has been robbed of the exec of the year award. But go on trying to bring up things that have no relevance to RG3 winning the ROY award.

 

[NINEster]

Of course, this is .NET where Russell Wilson has had the 4 best seasons of all-time and giving credit to anyone else is seen as treason by some of you guys. :lol:

You're gonna get accused of being a Niner fan, but bravo for calling it as it is.

The simple comment made was in rebuttal to "ONLY WILSON being able to come in as a rookie and do stuff".

Such homerism to think only one young QB in this league had that impact.

I stoke the fire on Wilson, yes......but I'd stoke it a hell of a lot less if Wilson could be seen as mortal by some around here.

I would be willing to bet that of all 32 fanbases, Hawk fans are less critical of Wilson than any other team of their own QB. Brady, Rodgers, Roethlisberger etc. I'm sure get more criticism than Wilson.

 

[NINEster]

He probably thinks Baalke deserved GMOY too. Baalke and Bob have shown their true worth since fraudulently obtaining those awards.

Again - you can't look at events that happened after a yearly award was given out. It's absurd.

And I've said many times JS has been robbed of the exec of the year award. But go on trying to bring up things that have no relevance to RG3 winning the ROY award.

Ducati Desmosedici is so biased he can't even begin to cover up.

If the world ended after the 2012 season, people would remember QBs like this:

1. Luck
2. Kaepernick
3. Newton
4. Wilson

Guy can't even give short term success/one hit wonders their due. Newton nearly disappeared, and took MVP honors last year which Wilson has yet to sniff.

Gotta give your opponents something when it is due.....can't always be "right" and never give anybody else credit.

 

[Smellyman]

He probably thinks Baalke deserved GMOY too. Baalke and Bob have shown their true worth since fraudulently obtaining those awards.

Again - you can't look at events that happened after a yearly award was given out. It's absurd.

And I've said many times JS has been robbed of the exec of the year award. But go on trying to bring up things that have no relevance to RG3 winning the ROY award.

Ducati Desmosedici is so biased he can't even begin to cover up.

If the world ended after the 2012 season, people would remember QBs like this:

1. Luck
2. Kaepernick
3. Newton
4. Wilson

Guy can't even give short term success/one hit wonders their due. Newton nearly disappeared, and took MVP honors last year which Wilson has yet to sniff.

Gotta give your opponents something when it is due.....can't always be "right" and never give anybody else credit.

Perhaps, but that is only because people had their heads stuck up their butts.(too short, game manager) Now they realize that the guy who set the rookie record for touchdown passes was the best of them all.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I smell the fear that others know we've decided to actually score 28 instead of 24 points a game. Which allows the defense to play downhill and stop the bullshit at the start.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

How did they misspell the 2012 ROY winner as Robert Griffin?

He didn't deserve it at the time, and with hindsight, everybody now KNOWS he didn't deserve it, either.

Not just Wilson bias speaking. The skill for what they had him doing on the field was just simply at a lower level than what Wilson was doing most of the time.

Alas, however, it takes time for people to get over college media hype for new NFL players...

:lol: at using hindsight to look at a ROY award.

RG3 had a spectacular rookie season. Just because the Redskins ruined his career thereafter doesn't make him any less deserving of that award as a rookie. He took a bad Redskins team and made them a playoff team. The Seahawks were a decent QB away from being really good and that's what Wilson brought.

RG3 put up 4000 yards of total offense, 27 TD and only 5 INT - on a team that finished 5-11 the year before.

So yes, this post is absolutely just Wilson bias speaking. RG3 deserved ROY.
Jesus, I didn't realize you had succumbed to the RGKnee hype, too; I thought that was just Luck for you.

Look - the Redskins deserve some of that blame for sure. RGKnee deserves plenty himself for running so often and so dangerously all the damn time. It's a miracle he lasted as long as he did in his rookie season. It was never sustainable, and plenty of people pointed that out at the time. Look at how RW has always run compared to how RGKnee always has. The simplicity of most of a lot of what RGKnee was doing on offense wasn't stellar, it was the NFL working on getting adjusted to running QBs and a lot of read-option.

Keep on basing conclusions on glancing at stat lines, however. I wouldn't want to interrupt that.

I agree RGIII ruined his own career because he didn't have the brains to get out of bounds or go down, and that RG3's success most definitely proved unsustainable, but that shouldn't relate to ROY should it? Both RGIII and Russell benefited from the bubble created when the read/zone QBs were ahead of defenses their first year. Russ showed flashes of clutch and was a superior skill passer from the start (IMO), but Russ was on a team that could afford to bring him along slowly, which is what they did. RGIII didn't have that advantage.

If we went back in time 100% of Skins fans would take Russell over RGIII in terms of who ended up being the better player, but in terms of that first year RGIII had to be a bigger part of the offense.

Wilson is a genius getting out of bounds or doing a baseball slide in bound without getting touched. Carroll never would've let him run if he was doing it like RG3. If RG3 had played for the Seahawks, PC would've preserved his career one way or another, even if it was benching him until he knew how to run.

 

[Maulbert]

Wilson is a genius getting out of bounds or doing a baseball slide in bound without getting touched. Carroll never would've let him run if he was doing it like RG3. If RG3 had played for the Seahawks, PC would've preserved his career one way or another, even if it was benching him until he knew how to run.

I don't think the Hawks would have drafted RG3. They graded Wilson higher than RG3, and Schneider personally had Luck and Wilson even (the team had Luck higher). I think the Hawks would gladly have taken Tannehill over RG3.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

I was just speaking theoretically. PC would've save Griffin's career.

 

[Laloosh]

I stoke the fire on Wilson, yes......but I'd stoke it a hell of a lot less if Wilson could be seen as mortal by some around here.

It's weird, I was just thinking that it would be nice if we had a 49er fan around to dovetail posts about Wilson not being perfect, with posts about a lack of posts about Wilson not being perfect.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

I stoke the fire on Wilson, yes......but I'd stoke it a hell of a lot less if Wilson could be seen as mortal by some around here.

It's weird, I was just thinking that it would be nice if we had a 49er fan around to dovetail posts about Wilson not being perfect, with posts about a lack of posts about Wilson not being perfect.

You could start a topic.

 

[Laloosh]

I stoke the fire on Wilson, yes......but I'd stoke it a hell of a lot less if Wilson could be seen as mortal by some around here.

It's weird, I was just thinking that it would be nice if we had a 49er fan around to dovetail posts about Wilson not being perfect, with posts about a lack of posts about Wilson not being perfect.

You could start a topic.

Oh, I will... just wait for that week one all-22 to come out. It's not like I ever point out bad decisions by the quarterback or anything though. :179422:

 

[rideaducati]

He probably thinks Baalke deserved GMOY too. Baalke and Bob have shown their true worth since fraudulently obtaining those awards.

Again - you can't look at events that happened after a yearly award was given out. It's absurd.

And I've said many times JS has been robbed of the exec of the year award. But go on trying to bring up things that have no relevance to RG3 winning the ROY award.

Ducati Desmosedici is so biased he can't even begin to cover up.

If the world ended after the 2012 season, people would remember QBs like this:

1. Luck
2. Kaepernick
3. Newton
4. Wilson

Guy can't even give short term success/one hit wonders their due. Newton nearly disappeared, and took MVP honors last year which Wilson has yet to sniff.

Gotta give your opponents something when it is due.....can't always be "right" and never give anybody else credit.

I was one of a very few that was critical of Wilson prior to last season and well into the regular season. I think you've mistaken me for some others that can't be critical of the Seahawks.

You're just ticked because I have been proven correct about my criticisms of Keeporpick and Baalke from the beginning. You remember their beginning...it was when all you niner fans were confusing competence with luck and timing.

 

[rideaducati]

He probably thinks Baalke deserved GMOY too. Baalke and Bob have shown their true worth since fraudulently obtaining those awards.

Again - you can't look at events that happened after a yearly award was given out. It's absurd.

And I've said many times JS has been robbed of the exec of the year award. But go on trying to bring up things that have no relevance to RG3 winning the ROY award.

Ducati Desmosedici is so biased he can't even begin to cover up.

If the world ended after the 2012 season, people would remember QBs like this:

1. Luck
2. Kaepernick
3. Newton
4. Wilson

Guy can't even give short term success/one hit wonders their due. Newton nearly disappeared, and took MVP honors last year which Wilson has yet to sniff.

Gotta give your opponents something when it is due.....can't always be "right" and never give anybody else credit.

I was one of a very few that was critical of Wilson prior to last season and well into the regular season. I think you've mistaken me for some others that can't be critical of the Seahawks.

You're just ticked because I have been proven correct about my criticisms of Keeporpick and Baalke from the beginning. You remember their beginning...it was when all you niner fans were confusing competence with luck and timing.

I also have zero issues in admitting that luck and timing, along with competence, has been cruising along with the Seahawks since Pete and John were brought in.

The cap growth has coincided with the Seahawks best players needing to be re-signed perfectly. The Seahawks have gotten their best players signed long term before the cap growth made contracts go through the roof. Very lucky.

The competence shows up in having a lot of players to re-sign in the first place...and all the winning.