Wilson's Agent on right now with Brock and Salk

[SoulfishHawk]

:snack:

 

[Popeyejones]

Wow, the amount of people that don't like guy because he's "too nice" is strange to say the least. With all the crap going on around the NFL right now, some don't like him because they think he's too squeaky clean. :?:

Before responding to this I just want to say that I don't personally dislike Wilson for being "too nice" and quite frankly with very few exceptions I personally don't really give a rat about any player's public image either way.

That said:

I think by "too nice" what people really mean is "insincere."

People don't like that Wilson's public persona can across as if it was built in a brand management factory. That could just be who he is of course, but I think people are pretty cynical about brand management these days.

Michael Jordan for my money was the first guy to really present a public image as if he was built in a brand management factory, and at the time people weren't that used to that and for the most part thought that's who he actually was (it wasn't until later that they learned that he's basically a s***head and pretty awful person to be around).

Fairly or unfairly (there's really no way to know except in hindsight) Wilson gets caught in MJ's afterburners, IMO.

"Too nice" is just a fancy way to say "I don't buy it."


Again though, just explaining what I think people are thinking, not stating my own opinion (I truly don't really care either way).

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Little by little the choir boy image is eroding for Wilson.

The only thing that's eroding your image of who you think Russell Wilson "really" is based on the narrative that you choose to listen to.

'Storian, keep in mind this guy's team's QB is such a GIGANTIC, utterly clueless and classless douche that he makes fun of flood victims.
If I were Dipshitster and saw what Wilson is in comparison to that idiot, I'd be as desperate as him to denigrate (look it up Dipshitster) Wilson in an obviously pathetic attempt to drag him down to Kraep's level.

 

[grizbob]

Wow, the amount of people that don't like guy because he's "too nice" is strange to say the least. With all the crap going on around the NFL right now, some don't like him because they think he's too squeaky clean. :?:

Before responding to this I just want to say that I don't personally dislike Wilson for being "too nice" and quite frankly with very few exceptions I personally don't really give a rat about any player's public image either way.

That said:

I think by "too nice" what people really mean is "insincere."

People don't like that Wilson's public persona can across as if it was built in a brand management factory. That could just be who he is of course, but I think people are pretty cynical about brand management these days.

Michael Jordan for my money was the first guy to really present a public image as if he was built in a brand management factory, and at the time people weren't that used to that and for the most part thought that's who he actually was (it wasn't until later that they learned that he's basically a s***head and pretty awful person to be around).

Fairly or unfairly (there's really no way to know except in hindsight) Wilson gets caught in MJ's afterburners, IMO.

"Too nice" is just a fancy way to say "I don't buy it."


Again though, just explaining what I think people are thinking, not stating my own opinion (I truly don't really care either way).

Popeye, you are starting to bug the living hell out of me by posting shit I can't argue with :141847_bnono: ninner fans are to be scorned regardless :mrgreen:

 

[PackerNation]

Welcome to the elite QB club. Expensive but worth it.

This right here is all that needs to be said.

But I will add this to the Montana/Wilson discussion, as well as the difference the NFL Salary Cap makes in complicating matters.

Montana signed his blockbuster deal when there was no salary cap. The Niners could pay whatever the owners could afford, and they could do the same for Rice and Craig and Jones, and Taylor and Haley and Lott.

But when the NFL introduced the Salary Cap in 1994, the lanscape changed drastically in regards to negotiations. It was no longer a negotiation against the owner's pocketbook, but a negotiation against the guy in the locker next to you, because the richest owner in the world (Paul Allen?) cannot simply give everybody what they want and keep them happy.

Montana could say "I want $4 million" and if the owner had $4 million in the couch cushions he could give it to him. Now Wilson could ask for $20 million and even though Paul has the money, he can't just give it to him. He has to think about Bobby and others. And so the negotiation ensues.

One other thing about different eras. This off season has been a testimony to the power of modern social media. Whether that is players tweeting obtusely, fake accounts spreading rumors, beat reporters breaking stories on twitter . . . everything private is public and there are no closed doors anymore. By choice or force, players don't have private lives anymore. I would suggest that there was just as much bargaining, bickering, beating, partying, etc. going on in 1989 as there was now, but every Tom, Dick and Harry with a smart phone and a twitter account didn't have access to the masses to broadcast it.

Good post.

I get the differences in the different era's of football and it is hard to compare them. But the single factor that separates what happened in the two cases is that the 49er front office went to Montana and paid him as the highest paid QB in the NFL. The Seahawks are trying a different approach.

In this era, you can compare Rodgers contract negotiations with Green Bay with Wilson and Seattle. Rodgers and the relationship with our front office is more akin to the approach of what was used with Montana. In other words, the Packers came out and just gave him his money. Rodgers signed a 5 year extension worth $110 million with $62.5 million guaranteed. It was the highest salary in NFL history at that time... Not really much for Aaron to complain about as they locked him up quickly and sent a message that he is the undisputed most valuable player in the organization.

As far as Seattle goes, Schneider is taking a different approach. They low balled Wilson and appear to be "10's of millions apart". Now I am not sure of the exact details and if that is per year money or guaranteed money or what. But it is evident that Schneider knows he needs money to pass around to other players and doesn't want to give it all away to Wilson. He wants an elite QB but doesn't want to pay elite money unless he is forced to.

I don't fault Wilson for wanting his money nor is it a reflection on his character if Seattle refuses to pay him elite QB salary and he holds out. Wilson is the single most important football player in Seattle right now. If other starters go down, your team can function at a high level and win but if you lose Wilson, I can't see you winning 8 games. A star studded defense can win games but the offense needs to score and Wilson gives you that ability more than any other player. Without Wilson, your offense would look similar to what Arizona looked like last year.

Wilson is a great player and he gives a lot of time to Seattle hospitals and UW Madison hospitals as well and he (so far anyway) is never in the "wrong place at the wrong time". In other words, never with that one friend at a strip club that gets busted with a ton coke or a passenger in a car as a crime is being committed. Wilson is good people. Wilson is rare and cannot be easily replaced.

If I were Seattle, I would just pay him and get him locked up right now because in a few years his contract will not be anywhere near outrageous. Besides, once Luck gets his money, it will raise what Wilson is going to get putting even more stress on the organization to stretch what money it has left to pay the other talent.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

As far as Seattle goes, Schneider is taking a different approach. They low balled Wilson and appear to be "10's of millions apart". .

idk about "low balled." Wilson is one of the most unique QB's to come into the NFL in a very long time, so it might take some time to monetarily quantify his worth.

It's not like his agent can say "look at these stats, 4,000 yards a year, 50 TD's, 900 yards rushing, etc..........and therefore he fits into THIS salary range comparable to other QB's."

Russell's value is in both tangible and intangible assets, so IMO that's probably the sticking point right now, trying to attach value to things like leadership, clutch throwing, scrambling ability, preparation, and just being a flat out winner.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

His value to the HAWKS is probably bigger than pretty much any team in the league. It's not about the #'s a guy puts up. It's about Wins and Losses, Playoff wins and titles. He has done an incredible job considering how brutal that O Line is in front on him. And this is clearly a run first team. He's never likely going to put up huge numbers. And there are many QB's out there that put up huge numbers, what does it get them? A trip on the couch watching Russ in the playoffs.

 

[Tical21]

If we ran the ball less often than any other team in the NFL, could we justify paying our RB more than any other RB in the league because he helps us win?

:stirthepot:

 

[volsunghawk]

If we ran the ball less often than any other team in the NFL, could we justify paying our RB more than any other RB in the league because he helps us win?

:stirthepot:

Yes, if the runs our RB produced when called on to do so were crucial in helping us win games.

It's not always just about counting stats.

 

[mikeak]

Once again NOBODY besides the Seahawks will pay Russell for past performance

NOBODY

That means that any dollars that Seattle puts on the proposal for past years winning is icing on the cake and that they are bidding against themselves

Furthermore Russell is locked in for this coming year at the $1.5

So if the team offered him an extension with $20+million for future years then that is not lowballing

Now Russel will try to get it up to compensate for this coming year and so he should. He should be paid in the future for the winning but he will never get $20 million for this upcoming season when he is on a $1.5 million contract.

Maybe he gets $5M-$6M for this upcoming year but it will be split on the future years. The Contract will be an extension as nothing else makes sense.

If Russell plays out this year and hit FA (I know he won't) other teams would only be willing to pay him for anticipated production and based on their salary cap. He will never see a dime for "services performed while being underpaid"

 

[Anthony!]

I am a huge fan of the Salary Cap, it makes the sport the most exciting one in the world by giving everyone a chance unlike other big sports like basketball, soccer or baseball. The downside is that players can't have unlimited amounts of money like the best players in those other sports get. That's just something the players have to deal with to keep the integrity of the game intact and that one player can't receive the entire salary budget.

I'm not a retard, I completely understand where Wilson is coming from but the way he's going about it comes off a bit antagonistic.

But we have no idea how Russell sees all of this, so how can he be accused of being antagonistic? The man has spent his entire life honing his craft. I thought the same way you do now early on in the negotiations but now I'm in full agreement with the majority here who believe that it's not a matter of if this deal gets done, but when.

I think it's unfair when people try and speak for Russell, or tell us what he wants. We don't know. He has his people in his ear constantly and he has to do what's best for him. And the Seahawks will do what's best for them. Somewhere along those lines, a deal will be reached.

I think it would be best to not throw around accusations when all we get is speculation and hearsay from the media - especially when, according to his agent, 95 percent of what has been said by the talking heads has missed the mark.

Got to agree the whole antagonistic makes no sense and nothing we have heard about the situation even remotely shows that.

 

[Anthony!]

"There's value in winning." - Wilson's agent.

I found that to be an interesting quote, because I've sort been wondering how the leverage in this negotiation and also our perception of it would be affected if Chris Matthews never recovered that onside kick in the NFCCG. Could Wilson's agent negotiate from a position of power if the Seahawks' season ended on a 0 TD/4 INT performance from its QB? Don't get me wrong, I think Wilson deserves to be paid. However, it's amazing how the randomest and unlikeliest plays can affect our perception of value and create "chips" for an agent to use.

Based on what Mark Rodgers said, I think he'd definitely take Russell to free agency if not for the team's ability to franchise him for three years. I'm not convinced Rodgers believes there's any benefit at all for Russell to get this deal done super early. Not to say the deal won't get done this offseason, but Rodgers seems like the kind of guy who would advise his client to wait unless their numbers are truly met.

I said on here already that Russ wants paid for his past success. Value in winning is just that, a payday for 3 years of wins.

As far as his agent not being in a rush to get paid, that part is bullshit from the agent. the agent wants paid just as much as Russ, and neither is unaware that one injury can cost future millions, and every year's delay in a contract puts Russ potentially one year farther away from that 3rd bite at the apple when he hits his early thirties. If they really thought his greatest value was on the open market, there would be no negotiations right now.

Yeah ahh no you really do not know any of those things you are just guessing.

Yeah ahh yes, his agent went on the radio and said a few things about current negotiations because they want to wait a couple more years to secure his future. (that was sarcasm, hope you got it)

Everyone is guessing. Even you, sycophant. I used logic for my guesses. You should try some.

He did not say anything like that you once again are attempting to guess and read between the lines when there are no lines to read through. FYI I do use logic unlike some I do not make crap up.

 

[Hawkfan77]

If we ran the ball less often than any other team in the NFL, could we justify paying our RB more than any other RB in the league because he helps us win?

:stirthepot:

Well Russell Wilson accounts for 72% of our offense (#9 total offense)
Drew Brees account for 76% of the Saints offense (#1 total offense)
Aaron Rodgers accounts for 75% of the Packers offense (#6 total offense)

 

[SoulfishHawk]

It does get entertaining when people make quotes about stuff the Russell never actually said. Like he wants to be the highest paid QB ever :th2thumbs:

 

[mikeak]

I said on here already that Russ wants paid for his past success. Value in winning is just that, a payday for 3 years of wins.

As far as his agent not being in a rush to get paid, that part is bullshit from the agent. the agent wants paid just as much as Russ, and neither is unaware that one injury can cost future millions, and every year's delay in a contract puts Russ potentially one year farther away from that 3rd bite at the apple when he hits his early thirties. If they really thought his greatest value was on the open market, there would be no negotiations right now.

Yeah ahh no you really do not know any of those things you are just guessing.

Yeah ahh yes, his agent went on the radio and said a few things about current negotiations because they want to wait a couple more years to secure his future. (that was sarcasm, hope you got it)

Everyone is guessing. Even you, sycophant. I used logic for my guesses. You should try some.

He did not ay anything like that you once again are attempting to guess and read between the lines when there are no lines to read through. FYI I do use logic unlike some I do not make crap up.

I am real curious what part you have an issue with. Lets break it down

1) Agent said value in winning - which equals getting paid for wins in the past / getting future value for past wins

2) Agents wants to get paid - don't you think that is true?

3) Injury can cost millions - is that not correct? Is there not a risk to play without a long term contract especially when you have made "peanuts". Remember Flacco already had a fat bank account when he took his risk. RW does NOT

4) Delay and potential franchise etc would jeopardize a lucrative 3rd deal - is that also not correct?

5) If they weren't interested in a deal now they wouldn't negotiate -- do you think they are just negotiating now for the fun of it and they have no interest in a deal?

So what part that Scottemojo wrote is it that you call out for being made out crap????

 

[Anthony!]

I
Yeah ahh no you really do not know any of those things you are just guessing.

Yeah ahh yes, his agent went on the radio and said a few things about current negotiations because they want to wait a couple more years to secure his future. (that was sarcasm, hope you got it)

Everyone is guessing. Even you, sycophant. I used logic for my guesses. You should try some.

He did not ay anything like that you once again are attempting to guess and read between the lines when there are no lines to read through. FYI I do use logic unlike some I do not make crap up.

I am real curious what part you have an issue with. Lets break it down

1) Agent said value in winning - which equals getting paid for wins in the past / getting future value for past wins

2) Agents wants to get paid - don't you think that is true?

3) Injury can cost millions - is that not correct? Is there not a risk to play without a long term contract especially when you have made "peanuts". Remember Flacco already had a fat bank account when he took his risk. RW does NOT

4) Delay and potential franchise etc would jeopardize a lucrative 3rd deal - is that also not correct?

5) If they weren't interested in a deal now they wouldn't negotiate -- do you think they are just negotiating now for the fun of it and they have no interest in a deal?

So what part that Scottemojo wrote is it that you call out for being made out crap????

What I have problem with is you interpretation of what he said and did not say. Let me give you an example

1) Agent said value in winning - This could mean they understand the value of winning and having the players around you to help do that. That is all I need to say the rest again is your interpretation of things, and again you really have no fact to base it on, as has been 95% of what is being written is not accurate. Also you missed a lot of other things that was said.

 

[bigtrain21]

I get the differences in the different era's of football and it is hard to compare them. But the single factor that separates what happened in the two cases is that the 49er front office went to Montana and paid him as the highest paid QB in the NFL. The Seahawks are trying a different approach.

There was absolutely no salary cap when they signed Montana so those situations don't compare. I know someone else pointed this out to you but it was the post you were responding to and you seem to have forgotten it. If there was no salary cap why would anyone care what we paid Wilson?

 

[kearly]

Yeah ahh yes, his agent went on the radio and said a few things about current negotiations because they want to wait a couple more years to secure his future. (that was sarcasm, hope you got it)

I don't remember exactly what was said, but in the Brock and Salk interview Rodgers said something to the tune of "I tell my clients to wait. If they wait, they usually end up making more money." It was a fairly direct statement about how Wilson would make more money in 2016 or 2017. Which is true.

This is why I think Seattle would be wise to offer a generous contract this offseason. Wilson would probably settle for $22 or $23 million AYP right now, but in a couple years Wilson's price floor will probably be at least $25 million after guys like Luck and Newton sign.

My guess is that Seattle is saying $20m, Wilson is saying $25m (both offers in 'new money'). PC/JS are smart enough to know that $22-23m is a good compromise for both sides, but they are going to wait until just before training camp starts to make a $23m 'take it or leave it' offer. If they made that offer now, Wilson would probably want to think it over and might end up thinking it's not enough.

 

[mikeak]

What I have problem with is you interpretation of what he said and did not say. Let me give you an example

1) Agent said value in winning - This could mean they understand the value of winning and having the players around you to help do that. That is all I need to say the rest again is your interpretation of things, and again you really have no fact to base it on, as has been 95% of what is being written is not accurate. Also you missed a lot of other things that was said.

The SPECIFIC question was: "I ask because how to judge him to assign an appropriate value to a contract?"

The Specific answer said I won't negotiate here BUT "But to me, the most important thing about any quarterback..... it’s all about winning"

Followed by: "There’s value in winning, and I think that’s the key element"

Followed by: " I think the fact that he’s won more games than any quarterback in the history of the league in his first three years I think speaks for itself. That’s not an opinion, that’s a fact.”"

This was NOT about the team. It was about paying RW for wins

Are you really trying to say that is about the players around him? that was a DIRECT response in regards to how to evaluate RW as it relates to paying him under a contract.

I also didn't "miss a lot of other things". You called out a post and I broke the post down. You picked on the one item you thought were a weakness and above clearly shows how it was not. Time to pack it up

Source: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/seahawks ... spn-radio/

 

[PackerNation]

idk about "low balled." Wilson is one of the most unique QB's to come into the NFL in a very long time, so it might take some time to monetarily quantify his worth.

It's not like his agent can say "look at these stats, 4,000 yards a year, 50 TD's, 900 yards rushing, etc..........and therefore he fits into THIS salary range comparable to other QB's."

Russell's value is in both tangible and intangible assets, so IMO that's probably the sticking point right now, trying to attach value to things like leadership, clutch throwing, scrambling ability, preparation, and just being a flat out winner.

When I say "low ball", I read that the Front Office was trying to think outside the box with Wilson. In other words, Schneider was trying to construct a deal that had never really been seen in the NFL up to this point. In fact, rumor had it that the deal he was working on with Wilson was so unique that it would change how NFL deals were done for a lot of the elite players. Something like $62 million guaranteed but spread out over a very long time then it was fully guaranteed contract but a lot less money.

All rumors. Who knows what they actually laid on the table and what is being negotiated. Since I have no inside information I can only "SWAG" like everyone else.