With Harvin=Super Bowl w/o Harvin=Whammy

[FrozenHell]

Viking fan here:

It doesn't seem like your team has been using Baldwin as much lately. It seems like your offense was rolling good when Wilson was using him more. He seems very reliable, especially on those deep balls. I think you guys will need to ground and pound the 49er defense though, there is money to be had in the run, and you guys have a true weapon there.

 

[Always Fierce]

You guys seriously should have rested your starters and beat the Saints with your reserves. That way Harvin wouldn't have gotten injured and its clear you could have whipped the Aints with the reserves on your squad.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

You guys seriously should have rested your starters and beat the Saints with your reserves. That way Harvin wouldn't have gotten injured and its clear you could have whipped the Aints with the reserves on your squad.

Dude we barely survived because we were not scoring tds. Had we played our reserves we'd be in the off season like y'all. Hope Harvin is good to go because Bevell has much faith in this guy. You can see how more creative he calls plays for Harvin be it in Minny or Seattle.

 

[IBleedBlueAndGreen]

This team is 14-3 this season, all essentially without Harvin. And now we can't win a game at home without him? Give me a break with that.

 

[FrozenHell]

This team is 14-3 this season, all essentially without Harvin. And now we can't win a game at home without him? Give me a break with that.

I think Harvin, since he hasn't really been in much, could actually hurt your offense if they try to lean on him too much. He's better when there is 2 or 3 designed splash plays installed for him. Next year would be better to try and make him a feature player, now it's more of a distraction. Like in fantasy football, go with what got ya here.

 

[TwistedHusky]

We need to stop depending on Harvin.

He has been a bust all year.

If we had bothered to use our draft pick on someone like Keenan Allen instead, suddenly our offense has no issue. (which I find funny because at the start of the year it looked like we had a logjam at WR but...)

Putting together gameplans that depend on someone that is wholly undependable is foolish.

Maybe he has bad luck, maybe he angered the Gods, who knows? What I do know is that we have gotten one game from him this year, and only against a barely mediocre opponent in which he caught less than 3 passes total. In fact, the very pass that got him lit up this last weekend was one that he dropped anyway, even had he not gotten hit.

If we are in a situation where only the ability of Harvin can save our tails then we are screwed anyway.

So far, Harvin is a complete bust. I am sure for great reasons, but the reality is he produced no results. We have one game that we need him in and if he makes the difference he will have been worth it everything he cost. But depending on his contribution when he hasn't contributed anything beyond new listings on th e injury report - that would be foolish.

 

[IBleedBlueAndGreen]

This team is 14-3 this season, all essentially without Harvin. And now we can't win a game at home without him? Give me a break with that.

I think Harvin, since he hasn't really been in much, could actually hurt your offense if they try to lean on him too much. He's better when there is 2 or 3 designed splash plays installed for him. Next year would be better to try and make him a feature player, now it's more of a distraction. Like in fantasy football, go with what got ya here.

I don't agree with this either. If healthy I find it hard to believe how adding one of the top 5-10 playmakers in the NFL could be a bad thing. The offense was clearly more dynamic with him in there. I just don't believe that this team cannot win without him, because they've already shown they can do so all season long.

 

[Hawks46]

Not diminishing his value, but SEA was one defensive breakdown away from beating SF on the road. This team can win games any number of ways, and it's not necessarily going to come down to the presence of one skill player.

This board is weird. It gets way too high after a blowout (STL) and way too low after a close game (NO). Every week in the NFL is different and consecutive games rarely play out the same way. This team is favored at home without info on whether or not Harvin is playing.

This has nothing to do with a close game. The NO game wasn't actually very close. They made a furious come back and had everything go their way (us playing soft zone vs. the hurry up, getting an onside kick -the odds of which are 8% success rate) to get within one score with 30 sec left. We controlled that game from the start.

Some of us look at different things besides the score. I see a trend here, and I can't stand it. The last 4 games of the season, we've steadily declined on offensive production. The ARizona game was actually the lowest passing total of Wilson's career. Then we basically follow that up in the playoffs with a new career low of 103 yards. SF's defense is on another level than NO's. That's why some of us don't have our heads buried in the sand.

 

[Uncle Si]

We need to stop depending on Harvin.

He has been a bust all year.

If we had bothered to use our draft pick on someone like Keenan Allen instead, suddenly our offense has no issue. (which I find funny because at the start of the year it looked like we had a logjam at WR but...)

Putting together gameplans that depend on someone that is wholly undependable is foolish.

Maybe he has bad luck, maybe he angered the Gods, who knows? What I do know is that we have gotten one game from him this year, and only against a barely mediocre opponent in which he caught less than 3 passes total. In fact, the very pass that got him lit up this last weekend was one that he dropped anyway, even had he not gotten hit.

If we are in a situation where only the ability of Harvin can save our tails then we are screwed anyway.

So far, Harvin is a complete bust. I am sure for great reasons, but the reality is he produced no results. We have one game that we need him in and if he makes the difference he will have been worth it everything he cost. But depending on his contribution when he hasn't contributed anything beyond new listings on th e injury report - that would be foolish.

just out of curiosity... when did we "rely" on him?

as for producing no results... he looked fantastic before the concussion.

This thread does suck (forgot who said it)... so much fear and negativity and anxiousness.

 

[DavidSeven]

Not diminishing his value, but SEA was one defensive breakdown away from beating SF on the road. This team can win games any number of ways, and it's not necessarily going to come down to the presence of one skill player.

This board is weird. It gets way too high after a blowout (STL) and way too low after a close game (NO). Every week in the NFL is different and consecutive games rarely play out the same way. This team is favored at home without info on whether or not Harvin is playing.

This has nothing to do with a close game. The NO game wasn't actually very close. They made a furious come back and had everything go their way (us playing soft zone vs. the hurry up, getting an onside kick -the odds of which are 8% success rate) to get within one score with 30 sec left. We controlled that game from the start.

Some of us look at different things besides the score. I see a trend here, and I can't stand it. The last 4 games of the season, we've steadily declined on offensive production. The ARizona game was actually the lowest passing total of Wilson's career. Then we basically follow that up in the playoffs with a new career low of 103 yards. SF's defense is on another level than NO's. That's why some of us don't have our heads buried in the sand.

And who did we play those last four games? SF - #5 Total Defense, NYG - #8 Total Defense, AZ - #2 Total Defense, STL - #15 Total Defense (but matches up great with SEA).

You say SF's defense is "on another level" than NO's, but NO had the #4 ranked defense this year.

Anyway, I kept saying everyone was way overconfident going into the Saints game. Rewind a week and recall everyone who kept saying "why are there so many stop being overconfident posts?" Well, now the opposite is happening. Endless whining about poor passing in 30-40 MPH winds. THE TEAM HASN'T CHANGED IN SEVEN DAYS; STOP OVERREACTING TO EVERY GAME.

This is a 14-3 team. They are a -3.5 favorite to go to the Super Bowl. We are in the championship game. If you can't appreciate that and understand what got the team to this point, then yes, you are one of those guys with their head in the sand.

 

[Uncle Si]

Not diminishing his value, but SEA was one defensive breakdown away from beating SF on the road. This team can win games any number of ways, and it's not necessarily going to come down to the presence of one skill player.

This board is weird. It gets way too high after a blowout (STL) and way too low after a close game (NO). Every week in the NFL is different and consecutive games rarely play out the same way. This team is favored at home without info on whether or not Harvin is playing.

This has nothing to do with a close game. The NO game wasn't actually very close. They made a furious come back and had everything go their way (us playing soft zone vs. the hurry up, getting an onside kick -the odds of which are 8% success rate) to get within one score with 30 sec left. We controlled that game from the start.

Some of us look at different things besides the score. I see a trend here, and I can't stand it. The last 4 games of the season, we've steadily declined on offensive production. The ARizona game was actually the lowest passing total of Wilson's career. Then we basically follow that up in the playoffs with a new career low of 103 yards. SF's defense is on another level than NO's. That's why some of us don't have our heads buried in the sand.

And who did we play those last four games? SF - #5 Total Defense, NYG - #8 Total Defense, AZ - #2 Total Defense, STL - #15 Total Defense (but matches up great with SEA).

You say SF's defense is "on another level" than NO's, but NO had the #4 ranked defense this year.

Anyway, I kept saying everyone was way overconfident going into the Saints game. Rewind a week and recall everyone who kept saying "why are there so many stop being overconfident posts?" Well, now the opposite is happening. Endless whining about poor passing in 30-40 MPH winds. THE TEAM HASN'T CHANGED IN SEVEN DAYS; STOP OVERREACTING TO EVERY GAME.

This is a 14-3 team. They are a -3.5 favorite to go to the Super Bowl. We are in the championship game. If you can't appreciate that and understand what got the team to this point, then yes, you are one of those guys with their head in the sand.

bravo

 

[seahawk12thman]

Marshawn Lynch has almost 100 yards rushing in the FIRST HALF. Percy was our leading receiver until he got hurt. He is crucial to this game because of the enormous amount of resources defenses have to put into. The Saints had no plan except to put him out. I have 100% confidence we would have blown out the Saints if Harvin had played the entire game. Their defense COULD NOT stop us in the first half. Had the officials not called the holding penalty on Breno, we would have scored on every drive he was in. Percy, when healthy, is as good as hyped up to be. He was a key factor in the Viking beating the Niners last year and was a potential MVP candidate leading up to their game with The Hawks. We need Percy!!!!

 

[hawk45]

Not diminishing his value, but SEA was one defensive breakdown away from beating SF on the road. This team can win games any number of ways, and it's not necessarily going to come down to the presence of one skill player.

This board is weird. It gets way too high after a blowout (STL) and way too low after a close game (NO). Every week in the NFL is different and consecutive games rarely play out the same way. This team is favored at home without info on whether or not Harvin is playing.

This has nothing to do with a close game. The NO game wasn't actually very close. They made a furious come back and had everything go their way (us playing soft zone vs. the hurry up, getting an onside kick -the odds of which are 8% success rate) to get within one score with 30 sec left. We controlled that game from the start.

Some of us look at different things besides the score. I see a trend here, and I can't stand it. The last 4 games of the season, we've steadily declined on offensive production. The ARizona game was actually the lowest passing total of Wilson's career. Then we basically follow that up in the playoffs with a new career low of 103 yards. SF's defense is on another level than NO's. That's why some of us don't have our heads buried in the sand.

And who did we play those last four games? SF - #5 Total Defense, NYG - #8 Total Defense, AZ - #2 Total Defense, STL - #15 Total Defense (but matches up great with SEA).

You say SF's defense is "on another level" than NO's, but NO had the #4 ranked defense this year.

Anyway, I kept saying everyone was way overconfident going into the Saints game. Rewind a week and recall everyone who kept saying "why are there so many stop being overconfident posts?" Well, now the opposite is happening. Endless whining about poor passing in 30-40 MPH winds. THE TEAM HASN'T CHANGED IN SEVEN DAYS; STOP OVERREACTING TO EVERY GAME.

This is a 14-3 team. They are a -3.5 favorite to go to the Super Bowl. We are in the championship game. If you can't appreciate that and understand what got the team to this point, then yes, you are one of those guys with their head in the sand.

Seven, I'm okay with the gameplan vs. NO given the way the game was going. I am not okay with our offense over the last 4 games.

CAR has a monster defense, and San Fran played them on the road. SF didn't tear them up, but they did look like an offense capable of generating 1 or 2 sustained drives. That's all I'm asking, just look as if you might be capable of more than a 3 and out.

Even against top defenses, we need to be able to do more than 3 and out every time when starting on the opponents' side of the 50. You watched the Giants/AZ/STL games right? Short field after short field, and we'd go 3 and out even starting on their 5. All we could hope for is Tate to make some crazy play, then we might get six, but if we needed to drive a long field to get points we might as well have punted right there.

With this defense we can still win it all, and if we do, IMO it should go down as a 2000 Ravens type situation. The ONLY thing our coaches and fans trust our offense to do right now is not turn the ball over. I will still be happy with that. I had expected more from our offense, but it's obvious now that those expectations were off. I am resetting myself to be shocked in a good way any time our offense does something more than go 3 and out, because that is the current most likely outcome of a drive.

 

[Canuck49]

Niners fan here: Harvin is a nice player. But I don't think he is the key to you guys winning this game or getting to the Superbowl. To me it begins and ends with Lynch. He is a battering ram and the best pure running back in the division (and I LOVE me some Frank Gore, who is better in pass protection etc. but not as a power runner).

Harvin was a problem when SF played Minnesota and lost. But it was really the threat of AP that mattered most. We have a great defence. But it struggles against teams that can bring the pain running the ball. If you track the games where the niners D have struggled it has been in games against a big physical running game that doesn't get bullied by our big physical front four. The small quick guys (like Harvin or Randall Cobb) haven't done the team in as the scheme and pressure can usually handle them. It's guys like Beast Mode that are the larger cause for concern.

 

[seahawk12thman]

Niners fan here: Harvin is a nice player. But I don't think he is the key to you guys winning this game or getting to the Superbowl. To me it begins and ends with Lynch. He is a battering ram and the best pure running back in the division (and I LOVE me some Frank Gore, who is better in pass protection etc. but not as a power runner).

Harvin was a problem when SF played Minnesota and lost. But it was really the threat of AP that mattered most. We have a great defence. But it struggles against teams that can bring the pain running the ball. If you track the games where the niners D have struggled it has been in games against a big physical running game that doesn't get bullied by our big physical front four. The small quick guys (like Harvin or Randall Cobb) haven't done the team in as the scheme and pressure can usually handle them. It's guys like Beast Mode that are the larger cause for concern.

Gee a Niner fan doesn't think Harvin is important? I guess Crabtree isn't important either. Tell you what, you don't play Crabtree, we won't play Harvin. Did you see our offense minus Harvin cause I have seen yours minus Crabtree...

 

[Canuck49]

Whoa whoa whoa, I didn't say he wasn't important. He's obviously important. I'm just saying the "he's the key to the superbowl" is an overstatement. Your run game and defence is good enough to win it all without Harvin. Look at where you are without him all season? I'm personally more worried about our D handling Beast Mode than I am Harvin. That's no intended to disrespect Harvin. It is meant to praise Lynch.

 

[hawk45]

Whoa whoa whoa, I didn't say he wasn't important. He's obviously important. I'm just saying the "he's the key to the superbowl" is an overstatement. Your run game and defence is good enough to win it all without Harvin. Look at where you are without him all season? I'm personally more worried about our D handling Beast Mode than I am Harvin. That's no intended to disrespect Harvin. It is meant to praise Lynch.

I sort of agree. The only issue is, with a non-functional passing attack, this offense without Harvin needs the crazy multiple turnovers that they've been getting. We *can* win and have been winning with that formula the past month.

With Harvin we are similar to the Niners with Crabtree I think (hope). We're not going to fling it all over, but we might be able to actually complete a 3rd and short pass after 2 Lynch runs to drive a long field once or twice a game.

You're definitely right that Lynch is the thing that makes it all go. For example, with Harvin but without Lynch we could kiss our butts goodbye.

 

[Canuck49]

I think we need Crabtree more than you need Harvin for this game due to the strength of your secondary. We absolutely need three legit pass catchers on the field to do anything against your pass defence. Kaepernick doesn't throw well when he isn't comfortable. And he isn't comfortable when his top guys aren't there. He is still a young QB after all.

Also, your run game is so strong that we can't go to the 2-4-5 formation we use against teams that don't run as well. So we are in a lot more 3-4 instead of the nickel (which is REALLY our base D) and that makes it easier for you to pass. Our secondary is good (especially the safeties) but it isn't elite. They've struggled against Tate, Baldwin and Kearse and even your tight ends in large part due to the emphasis on stopping Lynch. Which brings me back to my original point that containing Beast Mode is a key to us having a shot at a win.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I just look forward to the day (if that ever comes) when we don't have to discuss Harvin's brittleness on a weekly basis, cause I certainly can't take this for four years.

 

[mikeak]

The one thing I take away from seeing Harvin twice this year

I 100% agree with the FO for going after a player of this caliber. He changes the offense to an unbelivable extent

Separate discussion if Harvin is the right guy. But I fully understand why they wanted to add that dimension