You get what you pay for with the O line

[nanomoz]

If you're going to copy and paste a bunch out of an article, link the article, mang.

http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/...erent-approaches-in-building-offensive-lines/

 

[jammerhawk]

Everyone wants to blame Cable but what ive seen from him he's a very good coach. He's probably one of the top 15 coaches at that position.

I think if you look around the league, some of the top Lines either have money invested in it or have great QBs that command alot of respect. QBs more or less who will get in thier Olines face when they need to and give them a piece of thier mind if need be.

We've seen this on the team for years, most linemen will figuratively die in battle for Lynch. Lynch commands a lot of respect..

Wilson in a lot of the soundbites that ive seen is constantly asking his linemen to have to do things like pick up the pace in the hurryup offense. Their body language suggest they tend to get annoyed with his rah-rah im not gonna say what I wanna say leadership.. And I cant count how many times ive seen Wilson get flattened and instead of helping him up the linemen just walk back to the huddle. Just all points that Wilson may not be respected.

And none of this is really coming from this year, but 2012-2014 when the Seahawks had vets like Unger, McQuistan, and Giacomini. When 1st round picks like Carpenter were starting to get healthy and started coming into his own. If you will with grown ass men with experience.

Thats why I think its important moving forward, now that he is paid like the most important player, is to act like hes the most important player. Guys like Manning and Brady wouldnt be so nice and be like "great job guys, I know youre doing your best" if they were getting sacked like Wilson. No they will get in your face and be like if you keep playing like that, youre going to be demoted, fired, cut, out of this league etc. And guess what those guys can play anyone and those guys will go to battle for them 300% because they are scared, they respect the authority Brady and Manning have, and its do or die.

I just havent seen that from Russ, and its like they still keep the training wheels and kid gloves on with him.

If you guys want to see Oline improvement, Bevell needs to get his ass in a booth, Wilson needs to have full command and control of the offense, calling plays from Bevell's suggestions, calling protections, reading defenses, utilize creative audibles to create confusion. The team is paying Russ like he's top dog but the offense they run and more or less the "point guard" approach to QBing is pretty much telling this team Russ isnt top dog.

And it all sucks. You have an Oline thats green behind the ears. An OC who takes forever to adjust from his game plan. And a QB who seems like hes not in full command of this offense especially when he needs to be. Just really a perfect storm for failure.

Pandion I have great respect for your thoughts but I frankly disagree that it's on RW and suspect that Bevell and a conservative approach to the O along with the significant inexperience of 3/5 of the OLine is the real cause of the limitations of the O. Wilson excels when the plays breakdown and he has enough time through his quick feet to hit the open guy downfield. Keeping him in the pocket is recipe for failure as the just gets him sacked, hit, or hurried.

If the team can make a 2nd half run it will be on the OLine who will need to improve at both run blocking and pass protection. As far a a Bevell is concerned, he's a blockhead and wouldn't consider calling a game from the booth. He's the guy who never seems to realize the OLine doesn't pass protect long enough to allow his slow to develop plays to have a chance of success.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Here's what the Seahawks have spent on their O-line since Carroll took over:

1st round pick (#6 overall)
1st round pick (#25 overall)
2nd round pick
3rd round pick
Free agent addition: Robert Gallery
Re-signed Max Unger to a decent contract

In comparison, the Dallas Cowboys current line has three first round picks starting. So it's not a million miles away.

Seattle's issue has been poor drafting. Moffitt looked like a JAG in college and proved to be just that. Justin Britt was a desperation reach at the end of round two because they opted to take Paul Richardson with their first pick. However much they liked Richardson, they fought the board to go WR then RT in a legendary year for receiver depth. Had they drafted Joel Bitonio at #32 they would've been able to move up one spot to get Jarvis Landry (one of the most explosive players in the league).

That said, no front office is going to nail everything. The incredible building of this elite roster in the mid/later rounds, the UDFA hits, the discovery of a legit franchise QB in round three, the Marshawn Lynch and Chris Clemons trades, the landing of a first Championship title. It all makes up for the mistakes on the O-line this year and the botched Harvin deal. And we all know they'll make the OL a priority in the off-season.

 

[Hawkpower]

If we weren't paying the 15th highest rated QB in the league the second most money of all the players in the NFL, maybe we would have a little bit of money to improve the line. Just sayin.

Yeah, and by and large I think that's why we've started 4-4. So many adjustments with the line to compensate for how we've squeezed the cap in that position group. I think the idea was to really bank on continued superlative play from the defense and Kam's holdout really threw a monkey wrench in those plans. But now we've weathered that storm and it's time to get back to Seahawk ball! Too clichey Tical?

Wow really we have not even started paying Wilson that money yet, HIs cap hit this year is 700k. We have had oline problems for 3+ years sorry this excuse is complete crap but expected.

Speaking of expected......you started a thread bashing the oline for one reason and one reason only.

What I found interesting is that Russ finally started throwing quick passes off his back foot against Dallas instead of dancing around....

And suddenly........sack numbers go dramatically down.

#thatswhatwevebeensaying.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Here's what the Seahawks have spent on their O-line since Carroll took over:

1st round pick (#6 overall)
1st round pick (#25 overall)
2nd round pick
3rd round pick
Free agent addition: Robert Gallery
Re-signed Max Unger to a decent contract

In comparison, the Dallas Cowboys current line has three first round picks starting. So it's not a million miles away.

Seattle's issue has been poor drafting. Moffitt looked like a JAG in college and proved to be just that. Justin Britt was a desperation reach at the end of round two because they opted to take Paul Richardson with their first pick. However much they liked Richardson, they fought the board to go WR then RT in a legendary year for receiver depth. Had they drafted Joel Bitonio at #32 they would've been able to move up one spot to get Jarvis Landry (one of the most explosive players in the league).

That said, no front office is going to nail everything. The incredible building of this elite roster in the mid/later rounds, the UDFA hits, the discovery of a legit franchise QB in round three, the Marshawn Lynch and Chris Clemons trades, the landing of a first Championship title. It all makes up for the mistakes on the O-line this year and the botched Harvin deal. And we all know they'll make the OL a priority in the off-season.

And given that the playoff lineups for the last decade have had little to no correlation with the strength of their offensive lines, it makes perfect sense for them to invest more heavily everywhere BUT the O-line anyway.

I wonder when people are going to start noticing the laughable OL's that have shown up in Super Bowls and be willing to examine their own preconceptions. You'd think Seahawks fans, of all people, would be willing to do so.

 

[bjornanderson21]

This take on the O-line is short sighted and knee jerk.

True, the cost saving measure of Unger (in a vacuum, where Unger never gets hurt) put a ton of pressure on Russell to make line calls for an inexperienced center.

But the biggest problem the Seattle O-line faces is a lack of experience, not cheapness. This line is far more athletic than anything Seattle has had before, but has been extremely handicapped by inexperience.

I would accept some of Anthony's criticisms if he had not complained so copiously about last year's line as well, and if he had proposed which players not on the o-line we should have axed so we could keep the oft maligned Carpenter and Unger.

You gonna bitch about a problem, at least have a well thought out counter plan.

The seahawks have tried to be different, and they have had some success with it. The offensive is not one of those successes.

Athleticism? If they want athletes then put a bunch of RBs on the OL.

If you want offensive linemen you need to get OFFENSIVE LINEMEN.

Our O-line sucks because Cable has zero eye for talent, goes with DL, and sucks at coaching them up. It also sucks because Schneider has no eye for OL talent and has chosen to neglect it.

 

[Anthony!]

If we weren't paying the 15th highest rated QB in the league the second most money of all the players in the NFL, maybe we would have a little bit of money to improve the line. Just sayin.

Yeah, and by and large I think that's why we've started 4-4. So many adjustments with the line to compensate for how we've squeezed the cap in that position group. I think the idea was to really bank on continued superlative play from the defense and Kam's holdout really threw a monkey wrench in those plans. But now we've weathered that storm and it's time to get back to Seahawk ball! Too clichey Tical?

Wow really we have not even started paying Wilson that money yet, HIs cap hit this year is 700k. We have had oline problems for 3+ years sorry this excuse is complete crap but expected.

Speaking of expected......you started a thread bashing the oline for one reason and one reason only.

What I found interesting is that Russ finally started throwing quick passes off his back foot against Dallas instead of dancing around....

And suddenly........sack numbers go dramatically down.

#thatswhatwevebeensaying.

yeah but he hits, hurries, and chases did not. Also again the quick passes are a play calling and design issue and still does not change the fact the oline is god aweful. So in other words because of how bad the oline is they had to make adjustments. So I guess as long as you can adjust around something that sucks that means it does not suck any more. All we did was treat a system not the disease. Until we treat the disease we are in deep trouble.

 

[justafan]

Here's what the Seahawks have spent on their O-line since Carroll took over:

1st round pick (#6 overall)
1st round pick (#25 overall)
2nd round pick
3rd round pick
Free agent addition: Robert Gallery
Re-signed Max Unger to a decent contract

In comparison, the Dallas Cowboys current line has three first round picks starting. So it's not a million miles away.

Seattle's issue has been poor drafting. Moffitt looked like a JAG in college and proved to be just that. Justin Britt was a desperation reach at the end of round two because they opted to take Paul Richardson with their first pick. However much they liked Richardson, they fought the board to go WR then RT in a legendary year for receiver depth. Had they drafted Joel Bitonio at #32 they would've been able to move up one spot to get Jarvis Landry (one of the most explosive players in the league).

That said, no front office is going to nail everything. The incredible building of this elite roster in the mid/later rounds, the UDFA hits, the discovery of a legit franchise QB in round three, the Marshawn Lynch and Chris Clemons trades, the landing of a first Championship title. It all makes up for the mistakes on the O-line this year and the botched Harvin deal. And we all know they'll make the OL a priority in the off-season.

And given that the playoff lineups for the last decade have had little to no correlation with the strength of their offensive lines, it makes perfect sense for them to invest more heavily everywhere BUT the O-line anyway.

I wonder when people are going to start noticing the laughable OL's that have shown up in Super Bowls and be willing to examine their own preconceptions. You'd think Seahawks fans, of all people, would be willing to do so.

You dont need a dominant Oline like 05 but no team has won a SB with the strategy we are using now.

In fact I cant think of a team that won with an Oline described as laughable.
I dont think the majority of Seattle fans will ever agree with you that Oline isnt important.Especially if you are a team that wants to run the ball.

 

[Hawkpower]

Here's what the Seahawks have spent on their O-line since Carroll took over:

1st round pick (#6 overall)
1st round pick (#25 overall)
2nd round pick
3rd round pick
Free agent addition: Robert Gallery
Re-signed Max Unger to a decent contract

In comparison, the Dallas Cowboys current line has three first round picks starting. So it's not a million miles away.

Seattle's issue has been poor drafting. Moffitt looked like a JAG in college and proved to be just that. Justin Britt was a desperation reach at the end of round two because they opted to take Paul Richardson with their first pick. However much they liked Richardson, they fought the board to go WR then RT in a legendary year for receiver depth. Had they drafted Joel Bitonio at #32 they would've been able to move up one spot to get Jarvis Landry (one of the most explosive players in the league).

That said, no front office is going to nail everything. The incredible building of this elite roster in the mid/later rounds, the UDFA hits, the discovery of a legit franchise QB in round three, the Marshawn Lynch and Chris Clemons trades, the landing of a first Championship title. It all makes up for the mistakes on the O-line this year and the botched Harvin deal. And we all know they'll make the OL a priority in the off-season.

And given that the playoff lineups for the last decade have had little to no correlation with the strength of their offensive lines, it makes perfect sense for them to invest more heavily everywhere BUT the O-line anyway.

I wonder when people are going to start noticing the laughable OL's that have shown up in Super Bowls and be willing to examine their own preconceptions. You'd think Seahawks fans, of all people, would be willing to do so.

You dont need a dominant Oline like 05 but no team has won a SB with the strategy we are using now.

In fact I cant think of a team that won with an Oline described as laughable.
I dont think the majority of Seattle fans will ever agree with you that Oline isnt important.Especially if you are a team that wants to run the ball.

We won a SB with a bad oline.

The oline we have now seems to be improving. They may no longer be "laughable" down the stretch run.

Lets see how it plays out.

Russell doing his part certainly helps.

 

[justafan]

Here's what the Seahawks have spent on their O-line since Carroll took over:

1st round pick (#6 overall)
1st round pick (#25 overall)
2nd round pick
3rd round pick
Free agent addition: Robert Gallery
Re-signed Max Unger to a decent contract

In comparison, the Dallas Cowboys current line has three first round picks starting. So it's not a million miles away.

Seattle's issue has been poor drafting. Moffitt looked like a JAG in college and proved to be just that. Justin Britt was a desperation reach at the end of round two because they opted to take Paul Richardson with their first pick. However much they liked Richardson, they fought the board to go WR then RT in a legendary year for receiver depth. Had they drafted Joel Bitonio at #32 they would've been able to move up one spot to get Jarvis Landry (one of the most explosive players in the league).

That said, no front office is going to nail everything. The incredible building of this elite roster in the mid/later rounds, the UDFA hits, the discovery of a legit franchise QB in round three, the Marshawn Lynch and Chris Clemons trades, the landing of a first Championship title. It all makes up for the mistakes on the O-line this year and the botched Harvin deal. And we all know they'll make the OL a priority in the off-season.

And given that the playoff lineups for the last decade have had little to no correlation with the strength of their offensive lines, it makes perfect sense for them to invest more heavily everywhere BUT the O-line anyway.

I wonder when people are going to start noticing the laughable OL's that have shown up in Super Bowls and be willing to examine their own preconceptions. You'd think Seahawks fans, of all people, would be willing to do so.

You dont need a dominant Oline like 05 but no team has won a SB with the strategy we are using now.

In fact I cant think of a team that won with an Oline described as laughable.
I dont think the majority of Seattle fans will ever agree with you that Oline isnt important.Especially if you are a team that wants to run the ball.

We won a SB with a bad oline.

The oline we have now seems to be improving. They may no longer be "laughable" down the stretch run.

Lets see how it plays out.

Russell doing his part certainly helps.

 

[justafan]

And given that the playoff lineups for the last decade have had little to no correlation with the strength of their offensive lines, it makes perfect sense for them to invest more heavily everywhere BUT the O-line anyway.

I wonder when people are going to start noticing the laughable OL's that have shown up in Super Bowls and be willing to examine their own preconceptions. You'd think Seahawks fans, of all people, would be willing to do so.[/quote]



You dont need a dominant Oline like 05 but no team has won a SB with the strategy we are using now.

In fact I cant think of a team that won with an Oline described as laughable.
I dont think the majority of Seattle fans will ever agree with you that Oline isnt important.Especially if you are a team that wants to run the ball.[/quote]


We won a SB with a bad oline.

The oline we have now seems to be improving. They may no longer be "laughable" down the stretch run.

Lets see how it plays out.

Russell doing his part certainly helps.[/quote][/quote]


Our line may have had some trouble but i wouldnt call them laughable or bad.They at least made the Oline a priority when they got here..Missing picks happens but they made a huge effort to get it right and we never would have won the SB with this line IMO.
I was critical of Carp and Breno but its easy to see how important even average Olman are.

 

[RiverDog]

This take on the O-line is short sighted and knee jerk.

True, the cost saving measure of Unger (in a vacuum, where Unger never gets hurt) put a ton of pressure on Russell to make line calls for an inexperienced center.

But the biggest problem the Seattle O-line faces is a lack of experience, not cheapness. This line is far more athletic than anything Seattle has had before, but has been extremely handicapped by inexperience.

I would accept some of Anthony's criticisms if he had not complained so copiously about last year's line as well, and if he had proposed which players not on the o-line we should have axed so we could keep the oft maligned Carpenter and Unger.

You gonna bitch about a problem, at least have a well thought out counter plan.

I have a couple of counter plans. First of all, Evan Mathis was available and indications were that he would have signed for a reasonable amount. Had we brought him in, we may not have had to have moved Britt to guard, which was something I didn't expect in the first place as I didn't think he was horrible, at least not as bad as Carpenter was in his first year at RT.

Secondly, the Graham trade has not worked out, as evidenced by our offensive production to this point in the season. In the meantime, Unger has started every game for the Saints (ok, 20/20 hindsight for sure). But even without assuming that Unger would have stayed healthy, that trade robbed us of a #1 draft choice. I'm not sure who would have been available, if they would have fit our system, or if they would have been able to contribute this season, but it was a major asset we traded away that might have been used to improve our OL.

And lastly, Graham is not a blocking tight end. We replaced a very good blocking tight end, Zach Miller, with one that couldn't block his shadow. Just the fact that he occupies a roster spot takes away the possibility of using it on a better blocking tight end, especially considering that Luke isn't all that great of a blocker, either.

I'm not sure how well thought out it is, but they are all viable suggestions or observations and they all conceivably may have helped our OL performance. And I'm sure there are other alternate plans out there if Pete had established as a higher priority our offensive line, but he doesn't. I can't argue with success as he's won more games in the past three years than any point in franchise history, but I'm afraid that after years of neglect and counting on problems to fix themselves that the chickens are finally coming home to roost.

My biggest criticism of Pete is the same you have of Anthony: That he did not have an alternate plan for addressing the OL other than to rely on inadequate depth and shopping in the bargain basement hoping to catch lightning in a bottle.