Kyle Van Noy returning to BYU as is Cody Hoffmann

Discuss your thoughts about anything draft related. Mocks, College and Pro. Knock yourselves out!!! RATING: PG-13
  • I don't have many connections, but do know that Hoffman and Van Noy are both returning. Van Noy is a monster and to me is every bit the player Te'o is. I think he'll be a high first round pick next year.

    Hoffman had another 1,000 yard season, is about 6'4" and 225 and just catches everything and gets in the endzone. He should be picked in the first 3 rounds.

    BYU axed their entire offensive staff (well not yet, but they were informed this weekend that they are gone). So I think both players are hoping the team in general is better next year and it raises their stock. Watch both. Van Noy will be a superstar. Hoffman will be an NFL player and my guess is that he could be every bit as good as Sidney Rice (without the injury concerns). He's fast too. For a big, fast guy, he has a unique skill set. Great at route running, great hands, catches the ball properly, and can get big time yards after catches (so he's not a throw it up and hope he tiptoes the sidelines guy.... he will go across the middle, burn guys deep down the sideline, and will block in the running game). Good to see them both come back to refine their game some more. I think we'll see Van Noy bulk up to play LB in the NFL. I'd be really surprised if he shed more weight to pursue a career as a safety, but he has the skills to be a Polamalu type, but to me he's even more of a ballhawk at the college level than Troy was, which is saying a lot.
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am


  • I'm intrigued with Hoffman. I've seen a few YouTube game tapes on him, only, but saw a lot of what you see, Shark. He's a smooth and fast runner for a guy his size, and he's got really good YAC ability and can high point the ball.

    I think he's got a chance to be a at least a rd 3 draft pick, but IMO his biggest flaws were his ball catching skills. The couple tapes I saw he suffered from a lot of drops. He gets thrown to a bunch in that offense, it appears, so maybe his drops are normal for the targets he gets, but I feel he could really help himself next year if he works on his hands.

    Is that a fair assessment, Shark, or did I maybe just watch a couple of his poorer games.
    I am Godzilla, you are Japan!
    User avatar
    Recon_Hawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2117
    Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:01 pm
    Location: Vancouver, Wa


  • A lot of his drops are because they were switching series at QB most of last year. They were going from a left handed option QB who would throw only to Hoffman and a right handed drop back passer, who would throw mainly to Hoffman. It is difficult to figure out the ball when you see it coming in with different spin.

    This year, he ended up with almost the lefty exclusively, and I'm not exaggerating here... I literally could outthrow that guy. I'm not lying. I have had the Peyton Manning neck surgery, and have had 3 spine surgeries and my left leg is numb, and I still throw a tighter spiral more accurately at 35-40 yards than Riley Nelson. I like the guy, but I'd take him on today in a throwing contest and win. He is that bad. He was a safety that was playing QB because the head coach likes him. Hoffman has shown that he can rack up numbers with a guy who wouldn't start for 95% of the high school teams in the area (again, I'm being dead serious).

    I think that is why he's returning next year. He knows he'll be getting the ball from one guy (Taysom Hill) who was originally supposed to be Andrew Luck's replacement after this current season, but Shaw wouldn't honor his scholarship because he chose to serve a church mission, where the "other guy" said he would. So basically he was lied to and said "stay home or else" by Harbaugh/Shaw. He left, and when he came back he enrolled at BYU. He is a stellar QB and will make Hoffman look much better as he'll be getting a ball with consistent spin that is coming into his hands rather than 8 feet over his head, 3 yards underthrown, or switching spin direction every series (they literally alternated series, like it was the 1950's).
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am


  • I had no idea they switch up QBs like that. Interesting. I could see how doing that could cause any receiver problems, but I'm not positive that should excuse all of his drops. It's not as if we forgive baseball players for being unable to hit a reliever pitchers because he's throwing from the other side of the mound.

    But maybe I'm wrong. I threw the ball in high school, I didn't catch it., but I'll keep an eye on him next year along with Noy.
    I am Godzilla, you are Japan!
    User avatar
    Recon_Hawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2117
    Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:01 pm
    Location: Vancouver, Wa


  • Good move by Van Noy. His draft stock is far far far from a sure thing at his size and build. At the very least he can guarantee himself another year of being a starting football player, and at the most he can bulk up and put himself into good position for the 2014 draft.
    User avatar
    kearly
    * Mr Random Thought *
     
    Posts: 11285
    Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:44 am


  • Recon_Hawk wrote:I had no idea they switch up QBs like that. Interesting. I could see how doing that could cause any receiver problems, but I'm not positive that should excuse all of his drops. It's not as if we forgive baseball players for being unable to hit a reliever pitchers because he's throwing from the other side of the mound.

    But maybe I'm wrong. I threw the ball in high school, I didn't catch it., but I'll keep an eye on him next year along with Noy.


    Trust me... receivers notice these things. Guys couldn't handle Steve Young at first either, because it messed with them. That is why Bono was Montana's primary backup for a good stretch.

    Hoffman is better than most think. Honestly he had a junior high level QB throwing to him. He still manages 10 TD's, 1000 yards per year. He's going to be darn good.
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am


  • kearly wrote:Good move by Van Noy. His draft stock is far far far from a sure thing at his size and build. At the very least he can guarantee himself another year of being a starting football player, and at the most he can bulk up and put himself into good position for the 2014 draft.


    You've got your Russell Wilson discovery claims put in. I'll take Van Noy, Ansah, and Hoffman. Van Noy would start on the Seahawks right now at OLB. He'd win the job in camp. I have absolutely zero doubt. He isn't that small. He's an inch taller than Te'o and about 15 lbs. lighter. He's 2 inches taller than Leroy Hill and already about 15 pounds heavier. Why people think he's too small to play is beyond me. Because he has a thin looking frame? So did Jason Taylor and he handled it fine. He will have no problem carrying 250 on his frame and is carrying close to 240 now. He's every bit the player Kuechly was in college, but I feel vastly superior in a couple of areas.

    Van Noy is going to not just be good. He's going to be a superstar. Watch him next year. He stayed out of loyalty, not out of his draft stock business. He would have gone high enough that it wouldn't have made a difference, and he would have been a lock for an NFL roster. He's doing exactly what Te'o did though. They are close in a lot of ways, and also are good friends. I'm sure he consulted his pal before making his decision to stay his last year. Van Noy loves Bronco Mendenhall, he loves BYU for having recruited him since day 1 and sticking with him, even after he got arrested for doing something stupid and they stuck with him and helped him become the man he is today (and he is a great young man.... I'd love for my kids to grow up half as humble, kind, thoughtful, and caring as Kyle is, he's an exemplary person in every way).

    I look forward to watching him play on Sundays and I know that he's going to turn heads, just like Russ did. Just wait....
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am


  • #1: Never trust measurements until the combine. Van Noy is listed at 235, but he looks more like 220, IMO. Very slight build, looks like a free safety. Literally the first time I saw him I thought he was the free safety for a moment because he's got the build of a Brian Russell type.

    #2: Weight isn't really about a number, it's about bulk. At 6'3", he'd need to be a little higher than the minimal weight requirement because every inch of height adds a lot of non-muscle weight.

    #3: Non-BCS conference competition have an extra level to go up to the NFL, so I usually want to see physical dominance from a player coming out of the WAC or Mountain West or Sun Belt, etc. Van Noy has a lot of hustle and grit, but does not physically dominate even at the lower level. That doesn't mean he can't succeed in the NFL, but it does make it less likely. I'd categorize him as a late round Tim Ruskell type pick as a linebacker/DE, similar to Nick Reed. At least right now I would. Let's see how things change for him over the next year. As a safety convert- different story. He's plenty big for playing safety and probably fast enough too.

    Also, even at his listed weight (235) he is not 15 pounds heavier than Hill.

    I think he made the right call going back. Not only is he undersized, but until he adds weight or switches to safety he will get stuck with the dreaded tweener label. If he moved to safety now and has a great season he could be a 1st or 2nd rounder in 2014. Or if he adds some bulk he could project better at LB in the NFL also. I do think that his draft stock will be highest as a safety. He's received some very flattering comps there.

    FWIW, I like Ansah as a DE/DT hybrid.
    User avatar
    kearly
    * Mr Random Thought *
     
    Posts: 11285
    Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:44 am


  • Mmmmm, I think you're mistaken. Van Noy has completely dominated in plenty of games against big schools. You're making the same mistake everybody did on Russ Wilson. I've stood next to Van Noy. I'm 6'1" and 220 most of the time, played as high as 265. He is stocky. He isn't built terribly differently than Urlacher was in college. His height makes him look skinnier. I usually call this the Eddie George phenomenon. He looked skinny, but was a beast and would run over anybody. It was because he was extraordinarily tall for a tb, but had massive strength.

    BYU has had a tougher schedule the last 2 years than a lot of schools, and having no offense worked Kyle constantly, and Van Noy has been downright dominant in every game. It isn't like he's good against New Mexico state and sucks against Notre Dame. He's the same week to week. Calling him a late round pick is hilarious. Absolutely hilarious. I trust your judgment on many things, but you've missed the boat entirely on who this kid is and what he's capable of.

    Of course we're just having fun here, since we both spend a ton of time talking about guys. You have a higher percentage, but I'm playing Van Noy roullete, because if I hit it right then you guys will have to start listening to me.

    I don't see Ansah as a DT at all. I think he's Jevon Kearse jr. Don't move him inside. He has the athleticism of Steve Emtman (best athlete for size I've ever seen at the combine).

    I think Ziggy is like Clem that can drop back in coverage, i saw his coverage duties pick up as they used the zone blitz more, so I can see him being a good OLB that moves up as that 5th lineman that the TE now has to account for and either block him or hope he can get out and open and collect a pas before the QB is planted by Ziggy. He offers way more versatility than Jason Jones, who to me is a DE that isn't good enough to be a DE and is too lanky/tall and easy to move around at tackle. However... I will say this much.... I think bringing in a guy like Ansah is a good problem to have. He will be able to be used lots of different ways. If you have he, Clem, and Irvin on the field at the same time you are going to generate relentless pressure.

    One last thing before I fall asleep. The weights you see when you look through press materials and such are really deceiving. I know a lot more about what goes on in that school than you'd think. I know their full training program, I know what they do as far as player weights go, I know what players weigh from week to week. I'm not trying to give myself some big credit here. I have friends that work there, and my cousin is a sportswriter here that has locker room access and has for about 16 years or so. He tells me things if I ask, as long as he isn't breaking somebody's confidence. Last time I saw Leroy Hill, he was playing at about 220. He was in the 225-230 range last year. Van Noy is playing at 240 now. Thus my guess that he's 15 pounds heavier than Leroy who has no problems playing LB in the NFL beyond his talent limitations. I've spoken to and shook hands with many of the players I discuss. I'm not just blowing smoke. I'm a legit 6'1" and change. Steve Young is lucky if he's my height. Kyle Van Noy is CLEARLY taller than me. 6'3" outside linebacker that will probably come into the combine at about 245-250 and can rush the passer, stop the run, and cover TE's and even WR's when asked to? Yes please. All day, everyday.

    As for Ziggy. He does have a skinny frame. He has track legs. Very powerful so he gets incredible burst and doesn't tire. He will battle and battle right to the whistle. But the body frame type of those who are native to Accra, Ghana isn't much bigger than he currently is. This isn't a dude that is going to bulk up to 300 pounds. I can see some very strong logic to moving Red Bryant back inside and Ansah outside. I can see some wisdom in rotating every guy on the line to different positions on the line and just trying to create one massive mismatch every play. On a certain passing down move Clem inside and have him face a center that has been slow to snap the ball. I bet he creates some issues in the middle, or at least confused the outside tackles and creates opportunities. These are the things that can happen when you collect unique talents.

    One last thing I promise.... As you may know if you pay attention to me. I followed Brian Urlacher through high school and then college. Bronco Mendenhall was saying the kid was going to be an NFL Hall of Famer. Mediots punished Bronco for saying it. They mocked him relentlessly. Bronco is somebody I met in 1984 when his JC team (Snow College) was winning the JC National Title. He had gotten passed over by everybody because they said he was too small. He played safety as a walk-on and dominated the NJCAA and went undefeated and I attended every game that year that was in the state because my sister's boyfriend was the starting center. She was also Miss Snow College, so we'd go to the games. Bronco came over on a Sunday and had dinner with my family. He was an intense guy. He knew more about football than anybody I had ever met. So I am 12 years old just absorbing everything in about the formations, what everybody's job is, and so on. In an hour he taught me more about football than I had learned in my entire life and gave me a unique perspective into how a defense is supposed to work, stunting, blitzing, and on and on. It was the best class I ever took. Bronco then tried to go to BYU. He was 1st team JC All American. They said "nah". Bronco goes to Oregon State. He ends up being their best player and a graduate assistant. Gary Patterson leaves New Mexico and Rocky Long takes over and snags Bronco to coach defense.

    I know this is longer than usual in the "get to the freaking point department." Sorry about that. But Bronco coaches Urlacher, and Urlacher does what Bronco predicts and dominates college football. People question his competition level and how good he looked at certain things and the fact that he has no position coming into the pros as he played too many in college. As we all know, he played O/D and special teams. He was amazing. Urlacher was actually considered too small. He weighed in at about 230 and there was talk that the Bears had lost their minds and drafted a safety and were going to play him at MLB. He was labeled a bust by Chicago media throughout training camp and there were even those who suggested they trade him away or cut him prior to the season starting and claiming he was on the bubble. Urlacher had some early struggles, just like Russ Wilson did, but by game 6 everybody shut up. Dick Butkus said to cut the kid some slack and he saw the following great things (rattled them off). Fans lightened up. Within a year, Urlacher is viewed as one of the top 3 MLB's in the game, and has had a very lengthy career and I believe will easily walk into the hall of fame. He was a game changer. He brought a team led by Rex Grossman to the Super Bowl.

    How does Van Noy fit in? Because Bronco gets up and talks to boosters and alumni and is painfully honest. He will say whatever he thinks, but will spare kids feelings. For example, he will say, "Our secondary didn't get the job done. It's obvious. Our opponents scored 40 points on us, and that's my fault. I didn't prepare the team well enough for what they were going to see." He gives thin praise to players, because he is a firm believer in the team being the star, and everybody who knows him knows that Bronco praises them in team meetings and such all the time. He just isn't a guy that does it in the media one way or the other. Exceptions? He said that he's coached a lot of NFL players (which he has) and Ziggy is as ready for the NFL as any of them. Mendenhall usually has a top 10-ish defense, with very low rated players, but he does it. But he has said that Ziggy will be an OLB/DE for somebody and will turn heads from the first preseason game up through the next 10+ years. He felt it. He said it. I believe him, because he doesn't say it unless he firmly believes it and has lots of background info that makes him KNOW that the player will do well.

    As for Van Noy, he said that he reminds him more of Brian than any other player he's worked with. He was asked semi-off-the-record about how he saw Van Noy's career going (expecting an answer like "He may start at safety or WLB and play 8 or 10 years. Who knows?"). He said something I hadn't heard in a good many years, and it was this, "there is no doubt in my mind that Kyle will play on Sundays, and will play extremely well for a long period of time. His career will end in Canton."

    Take that for what it's worth. Maybe Van Noy ends up a late rounder or free agent signing and just never catches on with a team. It's entirely possible. But when his coach who has coached some real high draft picks and great players believes that strongly in him (and rarely takes a position on a player), then I will trust that he knows something. He sees something. He saw the same thing in Manti Te'o and was right and did everything he could to get both of them to come play their 4 years together at BYU. It was one split second decision at the end that changed that whole thing. But he was right about Urlacher, Te'o, and was right about Ansah when at the spring kickoff he said watch #47. Here's his story. Nobody has ever heard of him, but he'll be playing in the NFL next year.

    So take it for what it is. Second half info (or first in some cases). I think you don't quite have a complete feel for Van Noy. It would be a pain, but if you sat down and watched every game of his from the last two seasons and charted wat he was doing on each play, you'd be blown away by what you saw on your paper at the end. I guarantee that. He has "it" and thanks to Russ Wilson, "it" is going to be taken a heck of a lot more seriously by NFL GM's coming into this next couple of drafts. Just never forget the John Randles out there. They are the all-time greats. The Aundray Bruces and Percy Snows are not. Randle, Jason Taylor, even guys like Rufus Porter and Fredd Young were great. They were all ripped apart by the likes of Mel Kiper as being nobodies that would never do anything. Well... even guys like me are right sometimes.

    P.S. I was also pretty high on Wilson, Turbin, and Wagner last year having watched them extensively. I felt Van Noy had a more NFL ready physique than Bobby Wagner at the beginning of this football season. Wagner looked like a hoops player throughout college, but filled out nicely by about week 4 or 5. So I think any player can do the same if they have the desire and work ethic and access to the calories, and Kyle will. Ziggy is already pushing what his frame can handle, but he'd be a real magic piece to a puzzle of a defense. Either one of them would actually.
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am


  • I'll Agree to disagree Shark. Nothing against Van Noy, but I am just not seeing what you are seeing size and physicality wise. Not right now, anyway.
    User avatar
    kearly
    * Mr Random Thought *
     
    Posts: 11285
    Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:44 am




It is currently Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:21 pm

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ THE NCAA FOOTBALL & PRO DRAFT FORUM ]




Information
  • Who is online